MCU: Phase II - Part 2

Discussion in 'Marvel Films' started by Thread Manager, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. Gamma Goliath

    Gamma Goliath Engine of Destruction

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    Blade, punisher and daredevil films are properties that have been done before, and that's not a direction MS will go in just yet. They have way too many properties that havent been done and deserve to be seen.
    As far as phase 3 goes I think we'll see :
    Ant man
    Cap 3
    Thor 3
    TIH 2
    Dr. Strange or Black panther
    Avengers 3
     
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  2. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Well-Known Member

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    Fiege has said that they're not interested in doing another Hulk solo film (unless he's since changed his mind).

    I'm not sure why so many people believe that just because Punisher, Daredevil, and Blade have been tackled in the past that Marvel won't be putting their own 'homegrown' spin on the characters any time soon. As noted, I think they fit perfectly into Phase 3 with the likes of Doctor Strange and Ant-Man, and going more intimate again would serve as the perfect 'palate cleanser' ahead of delving back into their already-existing franchise properties.
     
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  3. Gamma Goliath

    Gamma Goliath Engine of Destruction

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    I think for phase 2 they knew hulk wasn't happening, I think his reception in Avengers 2 will determine whether we'll see a hulk sequel in phase 3.
    As far as marvel putting their own spin on the recently received properties, I don't think we will see it in phase 3. Cap, Thor, hulk, iron man and even guardians will be priority because that's what's making them money and it's the life line if the avengers. After they finish the avengers, then it'll be time for completely line ups in their phases. But I don't think we'll see any of those properties brought back until after phase 3, which will take up the next 7 to 8 years at least.
     
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  4. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Well-Known Member

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    We already know they're releasing Ant-Man as the kickoff to Phase 3 and will be producing a Doctor Strange movie for Phase 3 as well, and we know that they do want to start expanding their staple of characters beyond the ones they've already done, so I think there's a very strong chance that we see a Phase 3 that introduces us to a new slate of properties, and therefore feels like the perfect time - to me - to put their own spin on Daredevil, The Punisher, and Blade (especially since they could use Doctor Strange to tie in with and even introduce/set up Blade).
     
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  5. blalex620

    blalex620 Comics, Books, Games

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    Why would Dr Strange tie in to Blade?
    And Punish is no way in lieu with the MCU as it is right now. It will be some time before Marvel does it's more adult oriented Marvel Knights line of films. They're smart enough to know not to put out anything that isn't family oriented right now or at least until they're done with the Avengers as their bread and butter.
     
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  6. spideyboy_1111

    spideyboy_1111 Young Avenger

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    Blade, Ghostrider, Man-thing etc.. should all tie into eachother and Doctor Strange eventually... because of both Midnight Sons, and the fact they all deal with the same villains for the most part...

    it's also probably the very reason why WB is trying to get DC's "supernatural Justice Leage" off the ground before marvel essentially gets to their "supernatural avengers"
     
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  7. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Well-Known Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightstalkers_%28comics%29

    Who says that Punisher can't be done in a way that fits with the tone of the MCU? The old '94 Spider-Man cartoon handled the character perfectly in a setting that was, at most, TV-Y7/TV-Y7-FV. The idea that characters like Daredevil, Punisher, and Blade can't be brought to life in a fashion that is in keeping with the overall tone of the MCU is a mistaken one (IMO).
     
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  8. jmc

    jmc away for a while

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    Why I am looking forward to Marvel Phase 2.

    I have a love hate relationship with Marvel's phase one. Individually the films have always been made with the right intentions but the results have varied. The films have flashes of awesomeness mixed in with utter mediocrity. Great characters mixed with lifeless cardboard cutouts. Cool action sequences mixed with extremely poor finales. I've given the studio crap for their poor handling of talent, ripped them apart for weak story and character development, and blasted them for not giving their heroes a genuine threat to battle. Some of the issues I think are genuinely justified and have had many battles with fans about them. That said I'm looking forward to phase 2. Why? It's because something dawned on me recently - Avengers was the real start of all these solo franchises.

    Phase one suffers because of the studios infancy. The films for the most part lack ambition and relies too heavily on typical superhero cliches and simple stories with little attempt to push any boundaries. The exception is obviously Iron Man and most of that comes down to RDJ, without him that first movie is not nearly the massive hit it is and subsequently the Avengers possibly wouldn't have been made (at least not in the form we know it). What we were left with were films that were mostly 'ok' but not spectacular (IM2 though was just a waste of time), the phrase I constantly used to describe the studios attitude was playing not to lose rather than playing to win. It was that tip toeing philosophy that was so frustrating to me because I could see better movies within if they just did a few things differently.

    In the end my attitude toward the eventual team-up film was almost indifference. Given how the previous slate of films turned out Avengers to me was something I was always going to see, but not something I really cared about, I almost felt like I was seeing it just to be polite, more out of necessity than actual desire. So I went to the midnight screening, but sadly wasn't feeling well which meant I couldn't give the film a fair review because I wasn't focusing much on it. A couple days later I went again when feeling better and enjoyed the crap out of the movie and watch it 2 more times after that. There wasn't much story, but there was a dedication from all parties involved to make this the best possible movie they could. It wore it's superhero heart on its sleeve and didn't apologize for it. It was that positive attitude that was missing from the previous films. They were too passive, too scared of their own shadow, not bold enough to go for the win.

    So why am I looking forward to phase 2? It's because phase 2 is the real start of the solo franchises. For all the negative talk about Warner Bros doing Justice League first then spinning off solo franchises I think what Avengers has done is given the solo films the licence to actually go for the win now - which is what they weren't doing in phase one. The question is what did we really get out of the phase one movies? With the exception of a kick arse RDJ Iron Man there isn't much. We basically got some long introductions with no underlying stories that would affect Avengers (except IM2 dog's breakfast attempt). Avengers however is the real starting point and it's exactly why WB should launch JL first because now everyone knows these characters exist in the same universe and the consequences in the solo film are going to affect Avengers 2 much more giving that film potentially more weight.

    I know most people here are of the opinion that everyone knew each solo film was part of a wider universe, but until the promotion started popping up the vast majority of cinema goers would have had no idea, you only have to look at the solo films to see the underlying connection is really only something fans would see. As such you could have easily started the MCU with this Avengers film and if I'm honest I think it would have better to have done so. The issues I have with the phase one films stems from the unknown, a studio looking to simply get to the point where they can break free of their self imposed shackles. Yet all they really had to do was start with Avengers. Sure there wouldn't have been as big a build up, and the pay off wouldn't have been as ridiculously rewarding, but from a creative perspective it would have been because now those characters are free to finally let loose. What's funny to me is that IM3 looks more and more like it's the 'first' IM movie, I'm actually excited to see it, physiologically that comes down squarely to Avengers and I think a lot of people feel the same. The only question is whether Marvel will continue with a positive attitude or sit back and tip toe their way to Avengers 2, if they revert back to a phase one attitude then they haven't learned anything.

    Ultimately phase one is something I've moved on from, and if I'm honest I don't think it's going to be remembered all that well by many people outside of the fan base. Avengers will be remembered by everyone, its impact will be up there with Superman, Star Wars, LOTR and TDK. The real story started a year ago and I can't wait. :)
     
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  9. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    I actually think a Blade cameo in the Dr. Strange movie would be an awesome idea. Us fanboys would fangasm over the nod to Midnight Sons, and general audiences would just be wowed by a surprise appearance of The Daywalker.
     
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  10. blalex620

    blalex620 Comics, Books, Games

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    While I may disagree that the Phase 1 films were mediocre, Iron Man 2 not withstanding, I think you have a good point about how Phase 2 is probably going to be handled. I think however, as far as Phase 1 is concerned, it was less of the studio being scared to go balls out but more of the curse of the "origin story." While I do believe Marvel hadn't came into their own until Avengers I think the origin stories had a lot to do with the films not being the best. I know that some origin stories are great but just as many are thought of by fans to be "OK." I.E. Spider-Man, The Amazing Spider-Man, Batman Begins, Daredevil, etc. I can't remember if it was Webb or Whedon who said it best but, once you get past the origin story you can then have a rollicking good time.

    You are right though when you said the studio is going to do a much better job with their Phase 2 movies. They don't have to worry about anything with their films anymore. I only hope Guardians of the Galaxy is one of the better origin stories made.
     
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  11. Intouch

    Intouch Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]“Captain America: The Winter Soldier” will pick-up where “Marvel’s The Avengers” left off, as Steve Rogers struggles to embrace his role in the modern world and teams up with Natasha Romanoff, aka Black Widow, to battle a powerful yet shadowy enemy in present-day Washington, D.C.
     
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  12. InternetPeople

    InternetPeople Petty... and tiny

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    Avengers was already 2.5 hours. Finding the time to explain SHIELD/Widow/Fury would have been a disaster. Add in the other origin stories from the phase 1 films and you have a behemoth of a film that would be disjointed and boring. Unless you just leave out the origins so the audience can fumble around with the idea of a dude who turns big and green, a Norse god, a dude with a suit of armor and an athletic dude wearing the American flag.


    Thanks?


    There wasn't much story because the heroes stories were explained throughout the Phase 1 films. Iron Man 2 firmly placed these characters together in the same universe. Iron Man 2 was the reason Avengers didn't have to do any character development for SHIELD, Fury and Widow, it laid the groundwork for the Avengers to be an actual team.


    Avengers was based off what happened throughout the Phase 1 films. The Tesseract/Loki-Thor/Banner controlling Hulk/Stark becoming Iron Man/Understanding who Cap is. All of that STORY is why the audience loved Avengers. We were already invested in these characters from their solo films.

    Just throwing someone on screen and saying "love this guy because he wears a leotard" doesn't fly. This is why people get apprehensive when they see a film with too many heroes. There is not enough screen time and character development for the fans to truly invest in the life and death struggle of the characters on screen.

    For example, how did you react when Agent Coulson "died?" Do you think you would have that same reaction had you not seen the previous films? Do you think his fan boy persona with Cap would have been a little weird if you didn't already know who Coulson was? Without Coulson's story he would have been just another guy who Loki killed like in his opening scene. Who were those people? Just some suits, who cares.

    Avengers was fantastic because of the other phase 1 films, not in spite of them.


    So you think when Stark walked in to talk to General Ross, fans didn't notice? Or maybe when Fury referenced Howard Stark and the Super Soldier Project? Or Cap's shield design laying in Stark's workshop...no one noticed that! :doh:

    I am not a comic reader. I saw the connections. Speak for yourself.


    :whatever:


    So, do you think Marvel will do more origin stories for characters that have yet to be introduced in the MCU? I bet they do.
     
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  13. Mr. Dent

    Mr. Dent Well-Known Member

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    Avengers wouldn't have been nearly as good or grossed nearly as much if it were the film they started with...and both of those are very much understatements.
     
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  14. HighFivingMF

    HighFivingMF Welp.

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    I think establishing the characters, making them well known since only Hulk was before, and then building to a team-up was the perfect way to go, for Marvel. But with DC, they already have Superman and Batman so Justice League would have asses in the seats right away, they can start off with the team-up and hook people on Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and The Flash from there, then spin off.

    But I'm sure as long as they put out a product people liked it'll be successful regardless.
     
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  15. jmc

    jmc away for a while

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    And I said as much. :confused:
     
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  16. Mr. Dent

    Mr. Dent Well-Known Member

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    You didn't. It sounded like you were implying Avengers would have been just fine without the other phase 1 films.
     
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  17. jmc

    jmc away for a while

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    Well, it would have. The film is good enough on it's own terms that it would have been a success with or without the solo movies.
     
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  18. blalex620

    blalex620 Comics, Books, Games

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    Not really true. The film had the added benefit of not having to set up films for 6 major players in a superhero movie. These are characters who no one had really known before the Phase 1 films. Justice League, for example, could get away with it because the GA still knows who Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern are (Green Lantern though only because of his movie). Even if they don't know them as well as Superman and Batman they can still get away with a Justice League film. This would be a lot harder to get away with when you use characters that people don't know. This is why as good as it sounds I think Del Toro's going to have a hard time with JLD.
     
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  19. Hawkingbird

    Hawkingbird I want to be Kate Bishop

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    I don't think it would have. It would have come close, but it needed the push of the other character's and the fanbases those movies created.
     
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  20. jmc

    jmc away for a while

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    The movie may not have been a billion dollars successful, but it still would have generated good coin.
     
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  21. blalex620

    blalex620 Comics, Books, Games

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    Would it have though? Of course comic bookers like us would of been ecstatic to see it no matter what but does that necessarily translate to the GA as well. Remember this was and still is a relatively new studio. Phase 1 did more than just set up origin stories for characters. It set up a track record of quality films. This, more than anything, is what can sell a movie. If some other studio who had a track record of putting out good films were to have put Avengers out then maybe it could have made a "good coin." But if Marvel Studios, an unknown studio with no track record, would have put out Avengers first I'm not so sure it would have even done TASM numbers truthfully.
     
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  22. jmc

    jmc away for a while

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    Of course it would have done good numbers, the film in and of itself is a great film. It's a also a stand alone movie, you don't need to have seen the previous movies to follow along at all, it's works perfectly with or without the solo films. The repeat business it got had nothing to do with the previous films, it was down to how good the movie was. It may not have generated the level of buzz or the same box office, but it certainly wouldn't have been a failure by any means. TASM numbers easily.
     
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  23. blalex620

    blalex620 Comics, Books, Games

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    It definitely wouldn't have been a failure but I just don't think it would have grossed no where near as much. But I'll agree to disagree on this one lol.

    May 3rd can't come fast enough for me!!!
     
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  24. Mr. Dent

    Mr. Dent Well-Known Member

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    No one would have understood who those characters were. It worked the way it did specifically because of all the build up. If we would not have had the phase 2 movies and just jumped right into Avengers the only people who would be happy and understand what was going on would have been comic book fans...all of 300,000 people.
     
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  25. Dark Raven

    Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    Without the build up of the previous MCU movies, Avengers would've been like X-Men. Audiences would've automatically seen them as a team (even if they're coming together for the first time) and not individual heroes in their own right. They would always have that team association about them and not separate all-star heroes coming together for an event.

    It's not like the general audience see Wolverine, Professor X, Storm, Rogue, Cyclops, Jean Grey all teaming up together to fight a common enemy. They're just seen as one unit. Same with the Fantastic Four. People wouldn't have even necessarily remembered all the team members of the Avengers, just that one seemed cool to them.
     
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