MCU: The Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Discussion - Part 5

Really, everything about Winter Soldier is tighter and focused, not just of the Cap films, but even a lot of the MCU films in general. Plus, it could have gone the route of bringing other characters and the situation certainly would've called for it.

Yes, this is Cap's story, but the film is about the entire SHIELD organization. It's a huge change to the MCU that would call at least for the likes of Barton and Stark to show up, but the Russos wisely didn't throw in a ton of characters just to help take down SHIELD.
 
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Really, everything about Winter Soldier is tighter and focused, not just of the Cap films, but even a lot of the MCU films in general. Plus, it could have gone the route of bringing other characters and the situation certainly would've called for it.

Yes, this is Cap's story, but the film is about the entire SHIELD organization. It's a huge change to the MCU that would call at least for the likes of Barton and Stark to show up, bu the Russos wisely didn't throw in a ton of characters just to help take down SHIELD.

Totally agreed with all of this, I think CW threw too many characters in in the end, but they kind of had to. Unfortunately this took away from Cap and Bucky. I like CW quite a bit, it gives us the best Stark role in ages, and brilliantly introduces BP and Spidey, but I think it would have benefitted from focusing more on Cap and Bucky in the end.
 
I think in years to come, audiences will remember Civil War as an Avengers movie. They probably won't remember the exact name of it and that it was a Cap movie when trying to recall what they watched. If you just picture it in your mind in the same way as if you were trying to recall an episode of a long-running TV series, you'll just remember what sticks out most. And what sticks out most is that it probably is just another Avengers movie.
 
I think in years to come, audiences will remember Civil War as an Avengers movie. They probably won't remember the exact name of it and that it was a Cap movie when trying to recall what they watched. If you just picture it in your mind in the same way as if you were trying to recall an episode of a long-running TV series, you'll just remember what sticks out most. And what sticks out most is that it probably is just another Avengers movie.

Very true I can see this happening also.
 
People I talk to already are remembering it that way.
 
If Marvel make just one more Avengers film after the two Infinity War movies, they'll have made two Avengers trilogies. :o
 
To me it doesn't feel like a Captain America film OR an Avengers film. It functions very well as the "end" of two distinct trilogies.

If you go First Avenger, The Winter Soldier, Civil War it's a trilogy about the friendship between Cap and Bucky and the story revolves around freedom and authority. If you go Avengers, Age of Ultron, Civil War it's a trilogy about Iron Man and great power/great responsibility. Two very different trilogies that end with the same film. This is completely unprecendented and the fact that it was even attempted by a blockbuster is evidence of an utter masterpiece. In fact, with as much praise as it already gets, it's probably still underated.

For reference, here's all the trilogies they've pulled off so far in the MCU:

Iron Man, Iron Man 2, The Avengers
Thor, The Avengers, Thor: The Dark World (although we aren't told Odin's fate which leaves it feeling unresolved)
The Incredible Hulk, The Avengers, Age of Ultron
The First Avenger, The Winter Soldier, Civil War
The Avengers, Age of Ultron, Civil War

One thing I find really neat about this as well is that The Avengers functions as the beginning, middle AND end of different trilogies (and succeeds). The MCU is simply amazing
 
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I would disagree with some of that. I felt some parts of the movie weren't handled the best and in hindsight some of the action gets worse upon re-watch.

I think TWS being more focused helped it a lot. TWS had much more emotion to it as well. Both good movies, TWS is the better of the 2 for me though.

It doesn't matter if you disagree. CW is considered one of the best comic book movies and there is no MCU ranking that doesn't have it in the top 3.

I consider Dark Knight the most overrated comic book movie of all time. I would delusional not to see that it's widely considered one of the best if not the best comic book movie. Your opinion doesn't really affect the movie's legacy.
 
Civil War is an MCU event film (called Civil War) to me, rather than Cap 3.
 
It doesn't matter if you disagree. CW is considered one of the best comic book movies and there is no MCU ranking that doesn't have it in the top 3.

I consider Dark Knight the most overrated comic book movie of all time. I would delusional not to see that it's widely considered one of the best if not the best comic book movie. Your opinion doesn't really affect the movie's legacy.

:huh: Not sure of your point here? I wasn't saying it's not considered one of the best MCU movies quite clearly it is. But this is a message board where we discuss our opinions and in mine TWS being tighter and more focused helped it be the better of the two.

Are you basically saying opinions don't matter?
 
That's what most of his posts tend to eventually come to
 
I think Civil War works well as a Cap movie,an Iron Man movie and an Avengers movie. I coule still tell Cap was the main character.It continues the stories of IM3,TWS and AoU in a great way. Yeah it might have been called Marvel's Civil War but it probably had to do with contract reasons.
 
They could choose to focus on Cap and Stark and their feud in an Avengers film too, making them more the main characters than they already would be. The result probably wouldn't be too different to what we got in Civil War apart from the ending with just Cap, Stark and Bucky.
 
They could easily have fit that story into an Avengers movie. There will always be focus on certain characters more than others.

In an ensemble series like Star Trek, certain episodes focused more on characters like Picard in one particular episode, and Data in another etc. It wasn't always divided equally among each character every week.
 
I do think in hindsight CW would have been better kept as an Avengers movie. I do sometimes wonder what a proper Cap 3 focusing on Cap trying to save Bucky's soul while stopping Zemo and the other Winter Soldiers could have been amazing.

Then the Stark reveal and ending fight could have happened in an Avengers story where it at first seems everything is hunky dory.

Anyway, its the turn of Guardians in my MCU marathon tonight, my favourite MCU movie.
 
I'm just going to chip in an say I don't think it would have worked as an Avengers film. For one thing, no Hulk or Thor or even Nick Fury. But the real problem would be that every scene is focused either on Cap or Tony. The climax especially does not feature enough Avengers.

The premise/story itself could work as an Avengers film, but it would have had to be quite different.
 
Well, night was the turn of Guardians Of The Galaxy in my MCU marathon, had actually forgot how much I loved this movie. I was one of the few on here who was actually a Guardians comic fan, and while the movie takes a lot of deviations from the source, it just works so well. Rocket Raccon is just so spot on, and even as a big fan of Drax and Roman from the comics, the changes to them worked so well in the movie I did t mind, same with Star Lord.

Really looking forward to the sequel, as had my eye on Gunn also since seeing Slither.
 
Honestly Nick Fury not being in CW (especially given where he is at the end of AOU), with no explanation whatsoever was one of my issues with it.

It really felt like a case of "he's not here, not because it actually makes sense in-universe, but because our plot cannot work if he is here."

And if I had one real criticism or the Russo's and their writing, and it's maybe my only real complaint, it's that they can sometimes rely on the "just go with it" principle a bit too much for my tastes.

Yes most movies do that, and I can go with it to a point. But when you stack enough of them on top of each other, it starts to come across as more "you just got lazy in the writing there" for me. And the climax of CW really came across that way imo.

As for the "should CW have been an Avengers movie" thing, well I do feel like turning Cap 3 into essentially Avengers 2.5, did lead to some potentially interesting Cap-centric stuff getting shortchanged. Like if it had been more of a full-on Cap movie, then:

-Sharon probably would have gotten more to do (especially since The Russo's talked about TWS merely being an introduction to her).

-Bucky wouldn't have felt like quite as much of a glorified plot-device as he did.

-They wouldn't have killed off Crossbones ten minutes in after spending an entire movie previously building him up.

-Etc.
 
I would have liked to get botha Cap 3 and Civil War film (but I'm a greedy bastard).
 
I would have liked to get botha Cap 3 and Civil War film (but I'm a greedy bastard).

Agreed with this, like Loki I can't help but wonder what a proper Cap 3 would have been like. I liked CW a lot, but getting both would have been great.

Also, saving CW for an Avengers movie means they could have included and introduced a few more heroes.
 
Honestly Nick Fury not being in CW (especially given where he is at the end of AOU), with no explanation whatsoever was one of my issues with it.

It really felt like a case of "he's not here, not because it actually makes sense in-universe, but because our plot cannot work if he is here."

And if I had one real criticism or the Russo's and their writing, and it's maybe my only real complaint, it's that they can sometimes rely on the "just go with it" principle a bit too much for my tastes.

Yes most movies do that, and I can go with it to a point. But when you stack enough of them on top of each other, it starts to come across as more "you just got lazy in the writing there" for me. And the climax of CW really came across that way imo.

As for the "should CW have been an Avengers movie" thing, well I do feel like turning Cap 3 into essentially Avengers 2.5, did lead to some potentially interesting Cap-centric stuff getting shortchanged. Like if it had been more of a full-on Cap movie, then:

-Sharon probably would have gotten more to do (especially since The Russo's talked about TWS merely being an introduction to her).

-Bucky wouldn't have felt like quite as much of a glorified plot-device as he did.

-They wouldn't have killed off Crossbones ten minutes in after spending an entire movie previously building him up.

-Etc.

Don't forget Peggy dying off screen.
 
Honestly Nick Fury not being in CW (especially given where he is at the end of AOU), with no explanation whatsoever was one of my issues with it.

It really felt like a case of "he's not here, not because it actually makes sense in-universe, but because our plot cannot work if he is here."

I like the film a ton. This was my biggest issue though. Fury should've been there when Ross showed up. Maybe we'll get some other explanation as to his whereabouts in a future film. But yea him not being in it at all felt out of place.
 
Don't forget Peggy dying off screen.
Yep. That scene wasn't what it could have been for me, having to be a bit rushed and not having the focus it otherwise would have.
 

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