MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[InCali]

The real problem is that the writing is inconsistent (as you would expect). In FFH, for example, Spidey performed feats of strength that neither Quill nor Gamora could accomplish. Also, when we put weapons into the equation, it's hard to judge. If I had a nuclear weapon, I'd be a major badass. If you exclude weapons, IM is out of the game.

Anyway, I have all the confidence in the world that Doc will do SOMETHING to incite controversy, chaos, etc. You just watch.

 

[Docker2.0]

I don't really have to. Gamora has performed super human things in most of her movies. GoTG 1&2 showed she has super human strength as well as the ability to dodge lasers. She has shown she is equal if not stronger than Peter in the movies.

 

[Batmannerism]

If this were any other version of Spidey (616, Ultimate, Maguire, Garfield, PS4 etc) I would agree but in the MCU I'm not so sure.

Before Far From Home, Peter had no spider sense, rookie fighting abilities and just wasn't that fast.

Cap, Vulture, Shocker, Cull Obsidian and even the ATM robbers in Homecoming were all able to get the better of him. Peter Quill was able to tag him with throwing bolas.

I agree Gamora doesn't have any incredible speed feats either but we do know she's far faster than Drax and fast enough to repeatedly defeat Nebula (who we've seen land hits on Thanos without needing magic portals).

I don't think Gamora will have much trouble landing a hit on this version of Spidey.

I continue to dispute the speed comparison and I rely on Peter dodging ( and throwing back ) the sign thrown at him by Bucky, from behind, during the Civil War airport fight as evidence that he had a functioning spider sense before Far From Home.

I agree that his Spider sense was very inconsistent as Shocket caught him off guard.

The ATM robbers caught Peter off guard because he was being cocky.

As for Cap, he tagged Peter as he was coming in for an attack, which is all about superior skill and timing- and let's be honest Cap is quick enough to tag anyone except maybe Quicksilver. Cap gets the better of everyone, so that's no reflection on Peter.

Thanos let Nebula hit him, because the blows had no effect ( which makes his earlier statement that she nearly succeeded in assassinating him a bit odd).

Vulture did not land any hits on Peter with his wings - he collapsed the building they were standing in. He didn't hit Peter with any blasts from his ray gun, and was only able to get ahold of Peter after he had been in a plane crash and accordingly was not at his best.

Honestly I struggle with Gamora's fearsome reputation because we haven't see a lot to back it up.

- in GOTG she gets abducted by prison thugs with shivs and manages to disarm them when they're distracted. Then she fights Nebula which is pretty even until Gamora kicks her through a hole in the ship. Did she fight off a horde of Ravagers when she and Quill were taken prisoner....nope.

She is a better hand to hand fighter than Quill, but still gets taken out by him twice - by being outsmarted.

In GOTG 2 she does eviscerate a big monster- while its distracted. Then she..... has a fight with Nebula and loses ( sort of) and then does what other feats of fighting prowess ? Nothing.

In Infinity War her fighting feats are....nothing

In Endgame she takes out some Sakaarans in the final battle, not really that impressive.

Maybe she can beat Peter, maybe she can't ( and I usually advocate that skill beats strength and speed) but I'm struggling with all the props she seems to get based on a distinct lack of fighting feats.

If I've missed a bunch of her awesome feats, can someone point them out please ?

 

[Stormborn]

Losing to Cap and getting choke slammed by Thanos is nothing to be embarrassed about but between Peter getting tagged by ATM robbers, Shocker landing multiple hits (not just the initial surprise attack), losing multiple fights to Vulture and Giant Man KOing him accidentally I can't say I've got a high opinion of MCU Spidey's speed or competence. Before Far From Home there are only a couple of hints that he has a spider sense and it's not going to save him here.

Other than beating the Thanos conjured by the reality stone she didn't get to do much in Infinity War/Endgame but just going by her GotG feats she's got super soldier level strength and speed, extreme durability, serious skill and a sword that can cut through almost anything.

I took the gifs from a Comic Vine respect thread that's worth checking out.

 

[Batmannerism]

Losing to Cap and getting choke slammed by Thanos is nothing to be embarrassed about but between Peter getting tagged by ATM robbers, Shocker landing multiple hits (not just the initial surprise attack), losing multiple fights to Vulture and Giant Man KOing him accidentally I can't say I've got a high opinion of MCU Spidey's speed or competence. Before Far From Home there are only a couple of hints that he has a spider sense and it's not going to save him here.

Other than beating the Thanos conjured by the reality stone she didn't get to do much in Infinity War/Endgame but just going by her GotG feats she's got super soldier level strength and speed, extreme durability, serious skill and a sword that can cut through almost anything.

Comic Vine has a respect thread that's worth checking out.

None of those feats are particularly impressive when she's going up against an opponent like Spider Man, who is unskilled but still extremely strong and still arguably faster than Gamora - and wearing the Iron Spider suit.

I still say Peter takes this. Agree to disagree, will see how the votes fall - I suspect Gamora may wi in the end.

 

[Docker2.0]

We end with a 2-2 draw..............so I think I will sit this one out. Next up:
Captain America

vs Nebula

Who you got peeps...........

 

[Batmannerism]

We end with a 2-2 draw..............so I think I will sit this one out. Next up:

vs Nebula

Who you got peeps...........

Cap defeats Nebula 10/10 times IMO.

While skiful Nebula fights angry - from personal experience I can tell you that it makes a fighter predictable and easy to time. Nebula can self-repair from pretty massive damage (although as Endgame showed, is not indestructible).

Cap would struggle to KO her, but could likely disable her cyborg limbs with his shield.
If he got nasty he could probably decapitate her with a well aimed throw, similar to the way he evicerated the Ultron drones in Age of Ultron.

 

[Bayne]

These are two of my favorite characters so it's really hard to look at this one objectively, but I think it has to break down like this:

Cap unquestionably wins in skill. Even if Nebula theoretically had the skill, which I don't think she does since I think Cap trumps even Gamora in skill and Gamora easily trumps Nebula, there is no question that Nebula often gives into anger in her fights which overrides her skill and judgement.

Strength could potentially go either way. I think Nebula as at least in Cap's league, possibly a bit above it, but I'm not sure there's any real extensive proof of that beyond her standing her ground well against Gamora (who is probably stronger than Cap).

Nebula easily wins on durability. Cap can survive a lot, but she can be completely ripped apart and still survive. He can survive more than she can if he can hide behind his shield, but the shield can be easily separated from him.

The main x factor is willingness to seriously hurt/kill. Sure, Cap probably *could* totally destroy her bionic limbs with the proper application of the shield but *would* he willingly do that? I don't think so, in most circumstances. Whereas Nebula would be a lot more willing to just cut his tendons or do whatever else was necessary to put him down if she felt she had no choice.

But even so, I just don't see the willingness to harm and potential strength and durability advantage really making a serious dent in the skill deficit. I don't think it's impossible for Nebula to win a fight against Cap under the right circumstances, but all things being equal I think Cap walks away victorious by far the majority of the time.

 

[Stormborn]

Gamora has mastered like 85% of known martial arts in the galaxy, not just Earth. I dare say that Spidey really has a very low chance of beating her

We end with a 2-2 draw..............so I think I will sit this one out.

Wait, so you argued that Gamora would win but didn't vote for her?

Cap defeats Nebula 10/10 times IMO.

Normally I'd agree but it just occurred to me the Cap in the photo is from back in WW2 when he didn't know martial arts and was still getting to grips with his powers. Nebula could probably beat that version of him.

 

[InCali]

Wait, so you argued that Gamora would win but didn't vote for her?

I'm shocked that you're shocked. LOL. I told ya'll about this guy.

Doc's just frelling with us.

 

[Docker2.0]

 

[Docker2.0]

So since Vulture is in Morbius, I guess that means Venom and Morbius take place in the MCU...............so can I use these guys in the thread? Soon I know Deadpool will be here but have to get the vote from you guys..................my friends.......

 

[Batmannerism]

Wait, so you argued that Gamora would win but didn't vote for her?

Normally I'd agree but it just occurred to me the Cap in the photo is from back in WW2 when he didn't know martial arts and was still getting to grips with his powers. Nebula could probably beat that version of him.

Nebula was killed by a single blast to the upper chest from Gamora's pistol in Endgame so while her durability to explosions is awesome, not so to a kill shot.

If we're going by the gif its worth remembering that 1945 Captain America was fighting in WW 2 and shooting people dead on a regular basis, if he thinks Nebula is trying to kill him ( which is very likely ) he'll draw his pistol and bust a Cap ( pun intended ) or two in Nebula's cyborg ass. Not likely to kill her but might slow her down a little for him to finish off with the shield.

Cap v Gamora I would say Cap 8/10 because despite being comparably skilled Gamora lacks Cap's tactical brilliance. Nebula is tactically rubbish, so I feel very safe saying Cap wins 10/10 times.

 

[Luigi]

Cap

Strength difference be damned, Cap's tactical skill would be enough to even the odds and pick up the win.

 

[OB12]

Can anyone suggest a battle for this thread? I have one I have been thinking about for a while.

 

[InCali]

So since Vulture is in Morbius, I guess that means Venom and Morbius take place in the MCU...............so can I use these guys in the thread? Soon I know Deadpool will be here but have to get the vote from you guys..................my friends.......

Pretty sad statement if you have people like us for friends.

 

[Luigi]

Can anyone suggest a battle for this thread? I have one I have been thinking about for a while.

Yup, Doc is open to suggestions.

 

[OB12]

Yup, Doc is open to suggestions.

Ok, maybe queue this one up:

The Black Order

vs.

Ghost Rider (Robbie Reyes), Quake, and Deathlok

 

[Docker2.0]

Cap wins in a shut out. Next up: viewer requested match:
The Black order(no Thanos!)

vs Ghost Rider

Quake

and Deathlok

Who you got peeps?

 

[Stormborn]

Team Agents of SHIELD should win (although I reserve the right to change my vote to avoid a draw).

MCU Ghost Rider is the MVP. He survived a nuclear explosion and shrugged off being impaled multiple times. I don't think any of the Black Order can hurt him and he's definitely powerful enough to hurt them.

Adding in Quake (almost Black Widow level skill and ranged powers that can bring down a mountain. In theory she could take out Maw, Corvus or Proxima) and Deathlok (super soldier/cyborg with built in missiles who could keep at least one of the Black Order busy) is probably overkill.

 

[Docker2.0]

Team Agents of SHIELD should win (although I reserve the right to change my vote to avoid a draw).

MCU Ghost Rider is the MVP. He survived a nuclear explosion and shrugged off being impaled multiple times. I don't think any of the Black Order can hurt him and he's definitely powerful enough to hurt them.

Adding in Quake (almost Black Widow level skill and ranged powers that can bring down a mountain. In theory she could take out Maw, Corvus or Proxima) and Deathlok (super soldier/cyborg with built in missiles who could keep at least one of the Black Order busy) is probably overkill.

What kind of loser would do something like that?

And I'm voting the Black Order. They really don't have anyone who can take down a Hulk level threat in Cull Obsidian. Ebony Maw telekinesis can give Ghost Rider problems and I see Quake as being the weak link should anyone in the Black Order gets their hands on her.

 

[Luigi]

AOS

Ghost Rider alone is a handful but with Deathlok and Quake at his side, it's basically a done deal.

 

[Batmannerism]

Cap wins in a shut out. Next up: viewer requested match:
The Black order(no Thanos!)

vs Ghost Rider

Quake

and Deathlok

Who you got peeps?

Sorry. Have to abstain from this one as I never got into Agents of Shield. Sounds like Ghost Rider is ridiculously OP, and should be able to take out the Order by himself as none of them have any magic ( although in the MCU magic is explained in the Dr Strange movies as energy from other dimensions - so maybe the Glaive could affect him ?).

 

[InCali]

What kind of loser would do something like that?

And I'm voting the Black Order. They really don't have anyone who can take down a Hulk level threat in Cull Obsidian. Ebony Maw telekinesis can give Ghost Rider problems and I see Quake as being the weak link should anyone in the Black Order gets their hands on her.

Why do you ask questions that you've already answered?

 

[OB12]

So, when I was thinking of this matchup I was curious how some of the AOS characters would fare against a such physical threats. My initial thought was that GR is the standout here, however the quickness and lethality of Proxima and Corvus would pose a serious problem for Quake and Deathlok. Additionally, if Cull lands a blow from a distance with his hammer to stun GR, it gives the Black Order a chance. Ultimately, GR being nearly indestructible probably wins out but I think is not an easy win. Team AOS wins 6/10 in my mind.