MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[Docker2.0]

Leaning Spiderman as well. Depends all on his spider-sense. That's the key for him IMHO.

 

[Luigi]

Spider-Man

Pietro has speed but Peter has far better reflexes with his spider-sense and would eventually web him up.

 

[Bayne]

If this were Fox's Quicksilver, Peter'd be done for, but this Pietro was noticably slower. And also didn't really have a ton of practice in using his abilities in various different ways. I agree Spider-man would edge out the victory.

 

[Batmannerism]

X-Men Qucksilver would take out Spidey, and most non-invulnerable MCU characters really, really easily.

MCU Quicksilver....hmmmmm, tricky. Given that he was able to smash Ultron bots, and the Avengers, including Cap, were standing still to him, he's definitely got the advantage in speed.

Meanwhile MCU Spider Man is not a particularly skillful version of the character - in fact he usually screws things up - although at the end of Far From Home, he's come a long way (in terms of his fighting skills and tactics). Quicksilver vs Garfield Spidey would be a lot closer - and Maguire Spidey would beat Quicksilver pretty handily ( I'm thinking of the examples of his spider sense in SM 1 and SM 2 which pretty much slow the world down to a standstill).

Without the Stark suit, I think Quicksilver takes this. With the tech I'm going to say that Spidey takes this, but only just, and Quicksilver would be able to escape (if he so chose).

As always the battlefield plays a big part - in close quarters Pietro pulled off some cool speed fights (disassembling Klaue's gun, manuvering inside the grounded ship without any problems) but Spidey is super-strong (although he's not very good at using his strength).

So after all that, I'm going with Spidey by the slimmest of margins.

Cheers super-fans.

 

[metaphysician]

Vision vs Ronan:

If its Ronan without the Power Stone, curb stomp for Vision. Ronan isn't exactly weak, but the best that he could be called is "a tougher or more skilled Drax, with a decently proportional ranged weapon". That's nowhere near enough to fight Vision.

If Ronan *does* have the Power Stone? Its gets much dicier. Does the fight take place on the ground? Because technically Ronan could just nuke the planet, which should probably count as a win even if Vision could survive by staying phased ( and I am *very* dubious he actually could phase through Infinity Stone Energy ). He otherwise also seemed to have power and durability at least on par with the Vision, bare minimum, which means the Vision is going to find it extremely hard to keep him from just nuking everything.

In theory, Vision ought to be able to play the game of "My Infinity Stone counters your Infinity Stone". However, the Vision never really demonstrated, in my eyes, broad sweeping competence with the Mind Stone. He has *one* feat of vast scope ( removing Ultron from the internet ), but otherwise it seemed to just be a loose power origin providing nothing beyond other characters of similar tier. Ronan didn't exactly seem vastly skilled with his Stone, mind, but he definitely could do stuff like "shoot stuff", so the burden isn't the same.

Quicksilver vs Spider-man:

Okay, what this boils down to is. . . Pietro is just plain faster than Peter. Peter has good superhuman agility feats, sure, and certainly can dodge bullets. However, he has nothing that really compares to stuff like "literally watch a bullet moving in slow motion, with said motion being considerably slower than his own movements". Or "take a person's gun, disassemble and unload it, and neatly sit the bullets on a table, so fast that you can't see him move". And, given that Quicksilver could otherwise do damage feats like "dismember Ultron drones with his bare hands", there certainly isn't any ambiguity over whether he could hurt Peter.

If Peter had the Iron Spider armor, things would be different, as now Peter would both have many more tactical options ( including possible AI targeting assists ), as well as sufficient durability that I'd start to doubt whether Pietro could hurt him much. Without that? The fight largely consists of the Spider Sense saying "Well, Peter, this is going to hurt."

 

[Stormborn]

Even after Far From Home, MCU Spider-Man is still one of the slower versions of the character. He's started to master his spider sense and use it to avoid lethal attacks but he still gets tagged several times in the FFH finale.

MCU Quicksilver is slower than other versions too but he's not that slow. He's got feats like watching a bullet move in slow motion whilst he runs past it and moving so fast Captain America's a statue to him.

Spidey's durability/ability to wallcrawl out of reach might make it a drawn out fight but ultimately the speed difference is too big for him to ever land a hit so he's doomed to fail. If Pietro can floor Cap and tear apart Ultron drones then multiple hits will bring Spidey down eventually.

The Maguire and Garfield versions of Spider-Man are both far faster and more skilled than the MCU version so they'd stand a better chance against MCU Pietro. Garfield especially since he had some insane speed feats in TASM2.

 

[metaphysician]

Which is fine by me. Quite often, the comics decide to portray Spider-man as having some truly absurd, "speedster yet somehow without the running" levels of speed, while simultaneously going out of their way to portray him as still a peer and threatened by all kinds of people who should be statues to him. At least when they do this with the Flash, there's a clear point to the nerfing: having the Flash do all the other fantastic speed feats other than "punch people who are statues". This doesn't really work for Spider-man, where the "punch and dodge really fast" is all he can actually use speed to do.

Basically, you can tell me the Spider-man is ten times faster than the fastest normal human, and can effortlessly dance around everything because its all moving like molasses next to him. You can tell me he is legitimately threatened by 90% of his rogues gallery and random heroes he inevitably fights. You can't, however, convince me of both at the same time.

( Though the thing that *really* annoys me is when somebody simultaneously tries to justify why Spider-man's speed is so awesome, by discounting the effect of his spider sense, while also trying to justify how awesome his spider sense is, by discounting the effect of his speed. . . )

 

[Docker2.0]

Spiderman wins 5-2. Next up:

Guardians of the Galaxy

vs the Inhumans(yes the exist in the MCU....Kinda)

This maybe a quick round............I don't like to remember this show. Next round will include Deadpool since he's going to the MCU and we all know it.
If you like these matches, don't forget the like buttons. My ish is dry.

 

[Luigi]

Can't really comment on this one since I havent' watched Inhumans and probably never will. Sorry Doc.

 

[Batmannerism]

Which is fine by me. Quite often, the comics decide to portray Spider-man as having some truly absurd, "speedster yet somehow without the running" levels of speed, while simultaneously going out of their way to portray him as still a peer and threatened by all kinds of people who should be statues to him. At least when they do this with the Flash, there's a clear point to the nerfing: having the Flash do all the other fantastic speed feats other than "punch people who are statues". This doesn't really work for Spider-man, where the "punch and dodge really fast" is all he can actually use speed to do.

Basically, you can tell me the Spider-man is ten times faster than the fastest normal human, and can effortlessly dance around everything because its all moving like molasses next to him. You can tell me he is legitimately threatened by 90% of his rogues gallery and random heroes he inevitably fights. You can't, however, convince me of both at the same time.

( Though the thing that *really* annoys me is when somebody simultaneously tries to justify why Spider-man's speed is so awesome, by discounting the effect of his spider sense, while also trying to justify how awesome his spider sense is, by discounting the effect of his speed. . . )

That's the somewhat frustrating and contradictory nature of Spider Man, his reflexes and spider sense are pretty much plot armour - because lots of his enemies have ways of circumventing his Spider sense, when the story requires them to ( Venom being the prime example).


For myself - I see Spidey as having superhuman reflexes but nothing like Pietro or the Flash. What makes Spidey able to survive against a speedster is that his spider sense warns him of danger before it happens. He could dodge some of Quicksilver's blows because his spider sense tells him where to move to avoid them. The Garfield scene where he avoids bullets is ridiculous, because to get out of the way of them he'd need to move at supersonic speed - the only sensible explanation is that he instinctively knows where the bullets are going to be and avoids them before they're fired. That of course makes no sense either, but it makes slightly more sense than Spidey being able to move at supersonic speed.
It also makes a lot more sense than the Flash's " infinite mass punch" but that sounds awesome, so why not.

 

[Batmannerism]

Spiderman wins 5-2. Next up:

Guardians of the Galaxy

vs the Inhumans(yes the exist in the MCU....Kinda)

This maybe a quick round............I don't like to remember this show. Next round will include Deadpool since he's going to the MCU and we all know it.
If you like these matches, don't forget the like buttons. My ish is dry.

Tricky. Black bolt could pretty much vaporize the Guardians with a sneeze, so if he survives or worse yet sees the others go down and is still standing the Guardians are literally dust !

Do the Guardians have Yondu and Nebula ? Do the key inhumans have Lockjaw and Crystal ?

If Karnak's power is working he could take out any of the Guardians, Medusa's ridiculous hair power could at least slow down Drax for a bit. Gorgon's power would probably be effective against Groot.

Very tricky because as a group the Inhumans are more powerful, but the Guardians are more adept at fighting and tactics.

Maximus' key power is being a bitter, sneaky bastard - so the Inhumans ' best bet is to let Maximus meet the Guardians and develop a personal vendetta against them.

Assuming the Guardians have either one of Nebula and/or Yondu I'll say that GOTG take this.

 

[Docker2.0]

Tricky. Black bolt could pretty much vaporize the Guardians with a sneeze, so if he survives or worse yet sees the others go down and is still standing the Guardians are literally dust !

Do the Guardians have Yondu and Nebula ? Do the key inhumans have Lockjaw and Crystal ?

If Karnak's power is working he could take out any of the Guardians, Medusa's ridiculous hair power could at least slow down Drax for a bit. Gorgon's power would probably be effective against Groot.

Very tricky because as a group the Inhumans are more powerful, but the Guardians are more adept at fighting and tactics.

Maximus' key power is being a bitter, sneaky bastard - so the Inhumans ' best bet is to let Maximus meet the Guardians and develop a personal vendetta against them.

Assuming the Guardians have either one of Nebula and/or Yondu I'll say that GOTG take this.

Tricky. Black bolt could pretty much vaporize the Guardians with a sneeze, so if he survives or worse yet sees the others go down and is still standing the Guardians are literally dust !

Do the Guardians have Yondu and Nebula ? Do the key inhumans have Lockjaw and Crystal ?

If Karnak's power is working he could take out any of the Guardians, Medusa's ridiculous hair power could at least slow down Drax for a bit. Gorgon's power would probably be effective against Groot.

Very tricky because as a group the Inhumans are more powerful, but the Guardians are more adept at fighting and tactics.

Maximus' key power is being a bitter, sneaky bastard - so the Inhumans ' best bet is to let Maximus meet the Guardians and develop a personal vendetta against them.

Assuming the Guardians have either one of Nebula and/or Yondu I'll say that GOTG take this.

Yep! All the GotG pictured, and the Inhumans have Crystal and Lockjaw.

 

[Docker2.0]

Can't really comment on this one since I havent' watched Inhumans and probably never will. Sorry Doc.

I know man. This will be a quick matchup like I said. Will do another one tomorrow.

 

[Docker2.0]

GOTG win 1-0. Next up:

Corvus Glaive and Promixa Midnight

Vs. Captain America and Black Widow

They didn't really go full force in the movies so let's see how it plays out now.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Corvus and Proxima should win

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Corvus and Proxima.should win

Don't... Don't get me started. It's not even that Cap and friends won... It's how they did it.

 

[Batmannerism]

GOTG win 1-0. Next up:

Corvus Glaive and Promixa Midnight

Vs. Captain America and Black Widow

They didn't really go full force in the movies so let's see how it plays out now.

Cap and Black Widow for the win - if Cap has his shield and Widow has guns, and they use good tactics. Proxima and Corvus only got on top of WandaVision by a sneak attack. One on one Corvus has nearly defeated no shield Cap (who was trying to protect Vision) and Proxima has overpowered Widow.

However, Widow only took Proxima on in hand to hand (didn't use her stings or guns, no idea why not). Against Corvus Glaive she easily avoided his attack and nearly killed him with Proxima's spear.

If Cap fights Proxima and Widow busts a few caps in Corvus' crown well this fight would be over fast.

Significantly, Corvus and Proxima displayed a lot of overconfidence in battle - something Cap doesn't do and Widow certainly doesn't do (she shoots first and talks later).

What's a bit funny is that - based on her power feats at the end of Infinity War and Endgame - Wanda could have easily killed both Corvus and Proxima. At the moment Cap arrives she was powering up - given that she nearly killed Thanos, she probably could have squashed them like bugs. Cap and co showing up may have actually saved their lives and given them a chance to escape.

 

[Bayne]

Yeah, I have to agree I wasn't very impressed with Proxima and Corvus in the movie. It seemed the most powerful things about them were their weapons and the element of surprise. In a fair fight where Widow and Cap actually get their weapons, too, I go Cap/Widow.

 

[Luigi]

Cap and Nat

They dominated them in their fight and that was without Cap's shield.

 

[metaphysician]

Guardians vs Inhumans:

Guardians in a walk. This one isn't even really a contest. The Guardians are *massively* more skilled, and generally speaking much more powerful. Yes, yes, Black Bolt. . . but the MCU version of Black Bolt does not impress me. I am pretty sure Drax or Groot could tank his best shot, and I am *definitely* sure that Rocket's bigger guns hit much harder.

Essentially, this boils down to "A bunch of highly skilled fighters with powerful attacks, mostly ranged" vs "A bunch of people with basically no durability worth mentioning, and vastly inferior skill". Its a formula for a bunch of puds basically just getting shot a lot.

 

[metaphysician]

Cap and Nat vs Proxima Midnight & Corvus Glaive:

Hmm. So, on one hand, this is a fight in which Team Avenger has no additional aid or backup or distraction. OTOH. . . this is a fight in which Team Thanos, and specifically Corvus Glaive, has no additional aid or backup or distraction.

I give it to the two Avengers. Ultimately, they are just better. Sure, Proxima and Corvus have a physical advantage over Nat, but she seems to be at least as skilled and also possessed of enough weapons to even the odds. As long as she takes advantage of Steve providing the vanguard, she's fine. . . and in better condition than Corvus in a fight where stealth backstabs are not an option.

 

[Docker2.0]

Cap and Nat win in a close one 4-3. Next up: a matchup that I always found to be interesting...........not sure why:
The Incredible Hulk

Vs the Amazing Spiderman(with the Iron armor)

 

[Spider-Fan]

Hulk. Easily

 

[Luigi]

Hulk

Peter showed improvement in Far From Home but that's still nowhere near enough to take down the Hulk.

 

[Bayne]

Yeah, I can't see Peter tanking more than 2 or 3 hits from the Hulk at most before his Iron Spider suit falls apart. The Hulkbuster suit (specifically designed for Hulk level threats, unlike Peter's suit) has fallen to pieces every single time it's been used, and Peter doesn't have access to instant repair parts like Tony had in AoU.

Meanwhile, while Peter could maybe trick Hulk into something, he hasn't shown a whole lot of super-strategic thinking yet. And he literally can't hurt the Hulk at all physically.

Hulk Wins.