Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[Marvel united]

Speaking of reinvention, I was watching W&TXM with my nephew earlier today, and the way the show handled Magneto got me thinking-- What if Erik was long gone, and Lorna was our "MCU Magneto"?

Think about it. You can solve several issues at once:

- Keep Erik's background as a Holocaust survivor w/out a ridiculous retcon or Sci-fi twist added to his backstory

- Establish a mythology within the MCU that may or may not PREDATE the X-Men. There could've been a Brotherhood team in the 60s-70s that Erik was the leader of. Maybe taking inspiration from real revolutionary groups throughout history

- They could cast a WOC as Lorna w zero complications. As she could easily be biracial. So they could scratch that "Black Magneto" itch with her


Make Erik more of a Che Guevara-like figure


Where the message* of him, would live on through her

 

[psylockolussus]

Wolverine vs Hulk would be such a brilliant introduction to MCU Wolverine! Hope it happens

The thing is why will the Wolverine fight against the Hulk? We've seen the incredible Hulk lost control of himself too many times in the movies (Avengers, Age of Ultron, Thor Ragnarok). While brainwashing the Wolverine to fight off against a public figure like the Hulk is just predictable.

 

[Silvermoth]

Erik as Che is such a good concept. I remember in the book based on xmen 3 Chris Claremont compared him to Castro

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

The thing is why will the Wolverine fight against the Hulk? We've seen the incredible Hulk lost control of himself too many times in the movies (Avengers, Age of Ultron, Thor Ragnarok). While brainwashing the Wolverine to fight off against a public figure like the Hulk is just predictable.

The answer is really simple.. Savage Hulk

 

[fan4stic]

I've also been liking the idea of Kurt being Muslim more and more myself, for those reasons you outlined. As long as he's still German, it's all good for me.

That's not the character. And it's a dismissal of the character. The character is catholic. Just like Magneto is jewish.

 

[Frodo]

What if Nighcrawler was Muslim? Nightcrawler's arc has always been the "angel who looks like a demon", so could be a really interesting angle to draw a parallel between the way people can demonise Islam, while updating Nightcrawlers spirituality to reflect modern diversity. Plus, I feel like PoC actors will always lend a more unique perspective to a character who has faced persecution for their appearance.

I had suggested a couple pages back that Nightcrawler be a an Arab German youth which their are many.

No , he wouldn't be Catholic and it wouldn't be the version alot of fans would be pleased with , but I'd be down with a Muslim Kurt.

As I've said before in this thread, it would fit with the realities of 2020s Europe especially Germany today.

That's another reason why I could see a Eurasian looking Russian Peter aka Colossus because, like with Germany, the demographics aren't what they were in the 60s and 70s, and it's conceivable that a Russian youth would be a POC

 

[Frodo]

I could see a young Hank going for the shaggy hair , stubble, and glasses look as opposed to the clean cut and clean shaven version that Hoult was.

I could see him as the sterotypical brilliant prodigy who isn't the most clean shaven or best looking guy

A look along these lines would certainly add to his "beast" moniker pre transformation.
Again, this is assuming they're going for a late teens to very early twenties Hank.

 

[Marvel united]

That's not the character. And it's a dismissal of the character. The character is catholic. Just like Magneto is jewish.

And Hank Pym isn't 75 years old, and Ultron wasn't created by Tony Stark, and Shang-Chi is an almost completely different character in the comics, but thats why we call it an "adaptation".

This will be the third version of Nightcrawler on film. A new, fresh take would be welcomed by audiences

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Catholic Nightcrawler is 100% necessary. That’s one thing that can’t be changed.

 

[Frodo]

It can be changed.

These characters aren't static.

Whether it should be changed for another version is in the eye of the beholder.

But a new version of Kurt doesn't have to be White and Catholic imo, and ultimately, that's not even gonna be a call any of us make anyway.

Ours is not the only and final word on that.

The producers have the final word on that since they'd be the ones whos call it is.
Like it or not, it's gonna be their choice.

We'll all offer opinions of course, but we don't decide what can or can't happen. That's up to the production team and their vision of The X Men.

 

[Lip]

Kurt's essence is more being a man of faith than just being catholic. So I can see them changing that to a religious minority and making him muslim. Or keep him catholic and make him latinx.

Either way, I want to see Kurt being updated to fit the themes better.

 

[fan4stic]

But a new version of Kurt doesn't have to be White and Catholic imo, and ultimately, that's not even gonna be a call any of us make anyway.

And Hank Pym isn't 75 years old, and Ultron wasn't created by Tony Stark, and Shang-Chi is an almost completely different character in the comics, but thats why we call it an "adaptation".

This will be the third version of Nightcrawler on film. A new, fresh take would be welcomed by audiences

Citing other things that I'm not into isn't changing my mind. However, the Hank Pym age thing is more what I call an adaptive change. Than a needless one. Make Nightcrawler whatever race you want, but the character's catholic.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I’m with you on that. Some things shouldn’t be changed.

 

[Marvel united]

Citing other things that I'm not into isn't changing my mind. However, the Hank Pym age thing is more what I call an adaptive change. Than a needless one. Make Nightcrawler whatever race you want, but the character's catholic.

But Kurt is blue, and furry and not human looking... Whaddya mean change his race? The entire point of making him Muslim (or as @Lip suggested, Latin American), is to ensure said "race change", is textually effective, and not just a useless behind-the-scenes fact.

I’m with you on that. Some things shouldn’t be changed.

While I agree that some things shouldn't change (iconography), the idea of reinventing and reimagining the X-Men in a modern political landscape, is very exciting to me.

I'm open to whatever remixes Marvel may bring us, as long as the *spirit/core* is intact.

 

[Silvermoth]

If nightcrawler was Muslim instead of Christian, would Muslim fans like that in the way black audiences embraced black Panther or would they see it as a cheap consolation prize? I’m not sure it would help as much as we would want it to but I’m fully on board with one of the x-men being Muslim (or more than one)

 

[Frodo]

Citing other things that I'm not into isn't changing my mind. However, the Hank Pym age thing is more what I call an adaptive change. Than a needless one. Make Nightcrawler whatever race you want, but the character's catholic.

I'm not trying to change your mind.
You're entitled to your opinion, just as I'm entitled not to agree with your opinion.

 

[MilkmanDan]

Kurt's essence is more being a man of faith than just being catholic. So I can see them changing that to a religious minority and making him muslim. Or keep him catholic and make him latinx.

Either way, I want to see Kurt being updated to fit the themes better.

I'm inclined to agree. Being religious is an important part of the character. But that religion doesn't have to be Christianity. Let alone any specific denomination of Christianity. I can see Catholism being significant to, say, Daredevil... Matt Murdock is very much a working class Irish-Catholic from Hell's Kitchen. When it comes to Kurt, I don't really care what church he goes to.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I can't see X-Men vs. Avengers, at least not if the next Avengers team features some members of the team in Infinity War and End Game. I can see individual battles or groups of 3-4 fighting one another, but not like 10 Avengers vs. 10 X-Men. If you have an Avengers team of Sam, Bucky, Carol, Scott Lang, Monica, Rhodey, Spider-Man, Thor, Shang Chi and Hulk/She Hulk, I cannot see that group vs. the X-Men. I think that they will treat mutants like they do with aliens: align with the good ones and fight the bad mutants.

X-Men vs. Val's Team of Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers on the other hand.....

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Eh...

Nightcrawler being Catholic actually is pretty big to who he is intrinsically.

The tension he has from his youth is that he does appear as the popular iconography of "Demons/Devils" have them as in Western culture.

He is faced with that fact everyday when looking in the mirror and yet he still believes. Does Islam have said same iconography? Look around Europe and you can see the obsession with depicting evil forces all over the buildings from a certain time.

This just isn't the same in the Muslim culture I don't think.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Yeah keep Nightcrawler a devout Catholic.

I also think it's problematic if you get an actor like Mena Massoud in the role, and paint him blue. For doing that and then saying 'no black actor should be playing a blue Beast/Hank' makes us hypocrites.

 

[Silvermoth]

Mena would be a fun Angel

 

[MilkmanDan]

I also think it's problematic if you get an actor like Mena Massoud in the role, and paint him blue. For doing that and then saying 'no black actor should be playing a blue Beast/Hank' makes us hypocrites.

I think whether hiring a POC to play a character that's CGI/covered in make-up is problematic depends on how diverse the rest of the cast is. An O5 movie where Hank was the only non-white character would definitely feel off. I don't think that would be the case with an X-Men film that featured Storm, Forge, Jubilee and possibly a race-swapped version of some other classic character.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

^true, if your only "diversity" in the cast isn't even seen as a diverse character (being cg/ make up) then it doesn't really add diversity to the team from the, in movie POV... (but it is stilling giving a diverse actor/actress work) and diversifies the cast, from the real world POV, nonetheless

personally, I think there is enough diverse characters with in the X-men rouge gallery who deserve a chance to be spotlighted more as a "Main" character, then just supporting/background... oppose to just trying to race-swap the existing main characters

 

[Frodo]

You can promote diverse characters as well as race swapping.

It's not an either or thing.

As far as the race swapping with a Make up characters goes, I'd be fine if Hank was Black, Latin, Asian, etc . just like I'd fine with Kurt being a Latin Catholic or a Muslim German.

As has been noted, the make up thing would really be in issue if the cast was mostly White and Beast or Nightcrawler was played by a POC.

But if the rest of the cast is diverse, i.e. actually reflects the reality of not just New York, but the world today, then having a Black actor as Beast wouldn't be an issue.

You're never going to have a consensus among fans on which should or shouldn't be done when it comes down to diversifying the cast .

Ultimately it's gonna be the vision of the production which will determine these issues, and we won't have a veto over whatever they decide to do.

 

[Marvel united]

You can promote diverse characters as well as race swapping.

It's not an either or thing.

As far as the race swapping with a Make up characters goes, I'd be fine if Hank was Black, Latin, Asian, etc . just like I'd fine with Kurt being a Latin Catholic or a Muslim German.

As has been noted, the make up thing would really be in issue if the cast was mostly White and Beast or Nightcrawler was played by a POC.

But if the rest of the cast is diverse, i.e. actually reflects the reality of not just New York, but the world today, then having a Black actor as Beast wouldn't be an issue.

You're never going to have a consensus among fans on which should or shouldn't be done when it comes down to diversifying the cast .

Ultimately it's gonna be the vision of the production which will determine these issues, and we won't have a veto over whatever they decide to do.

I think some race swapping is inevitable, as much as some fans may hate it.

Kevin Feige is probably going to push for minority leads on this project (for obvious reasons). Some race bending is gonna happen, simply because, the central characters/the ones important to the narrative, are all white. An "update' of the core mythos, makes sense.