Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[Frankeh]

The link that I posted before addresses all of those points, you can read it here. But you can also read this, or this one, or this one, or this other one, or this one here.

It's not me who has a problem with female characters on the show. Or this or that person. There's a big and loud problem that a lot of people see and a criticizes it.

I don't deny this show has flaws as I did find the animosity between Max and El to be cringey but I don't understand why you need to be so dismissive of fant4stic's defense of the flaws, especially when no one has accused you of being alone in these criticisms. I can assure you I have been open minded during this entire conversation.

I personally don't really care about Jean being called Marvel Girl.

 

[Lip]

I don't understand why you need to be so dismissive of fant4stic's defense of the flaws, especially when no one has accused you of being alone in these criticisms.

Ok, if you don't understand I'll explain.

1) I genuinely didn't want to go deep in this topic because it is exausting. @MarvelUnited doesn't mind the Duffer brothers directing the X-Men, but I'm sure he'll agree with what I'll say next: When we bring up the idea of race changing some characters to add more diversity, there is an endless debate that goes on for pages and pages where people just keep repeating their points. In the comicbook fandom I learned that there are a lot of resistance towards addressing more social issues. Now, I'm not mentioning any user in particular, but I genuinely wanted to stop the debate about the treatment of women there to avoid that exausting repetitive debate that goes on and on.

2) The link that I posted did address the issues he mentioned. I genuinely didn't want to make a huge post about each of them. And I would be repeating a lot of the points I already had made.

3) I am the only one in this thread (so far) against the idea of the Duffer Brothers directing the X-Men because of their treatment of female characters. I wanted to highlight that the problems I had mentioned is something that a whole community is aware and complaining about.

I'm not trying to start any "fight", I'm not being 'dismissive' and I'm not being passive agressive. I genuinely want to avoid the debates I've been on several times here that is exausting. And I didn't want to repeat the same things. That's just it.

 

[Iceman]

But Marvel Girl did work. It worked for 13 years before Jean transitioned into the Phoenix. She had the name for a very large part of her early history all the way to the mid-late 70s.

Of course there are more ways to readily distance MCU Jean from her FOX counterparts but the most readily obvious change to the GA would be her actual name i.e the actual title/label on her character as she's only ever been referred to as "Jean" in all of her FOX appearances. No codename like "Storm" or "Cyclops". This is just one change they can make that will be immediately noticable.

I personally believe she will be Marvel Girl. Not only to pay homage to the early history of the X-Men (The Fox films never did) but because for a fresh interpretation, it makes sense to cover new ground. And that means Jean along with the rest of the team having true secret identities again like they did in the comics from the 60s all the way to 1984 pre-Adversary. And even after that, they've had the guise of secret identities a couple of times.


There could be an explanation for it in an X-Men movie as well. Maybe Jean was a track runner in HS and the kids there nicknamed her "Marvel Girl" because of how marvelous she was in the field. Jean adopted the nickname as her superhero persona. There, that's your explanation. Took me less than 5 minutes to come up with a reason. If I can do it, so can an experienced writer with years of experience. Almost anything can be justified if the filmmakers want it to be. People were adamant that the moving lenses on Spider-Man would never happen because "it makes no sense" but Marvel came up with a valid excuse for why and they moved on, never talked about it again. Coming up with a reason for an alias someone goes by really isn't all that hard.

I'm just questioning if it's a good name (no point in coming up with a good reason to have a bad name), especially compared to something like Phoenix. Most of the other X-Men's code names are used a fair bit in comics, unlike Jean's. I guess Kitty is another one who is referred to by real name the majority of the time but she also has many different code names. Are you a fan of the name Marvel Girl? Differentiation or being easy to explain shouldn't be the primary reason here IMO, just choose the best name as that is major feature of the character.

 

[Iceman]

Given Marvel history with solo franchises, we can expect some supporting characters in DS2. And I'd love if it was Wanda.

But, if for some reason she's not in the sequence, she'll get a solo miniseries, so she can develop her powers there.

I really want it. If there was no mini-series then I would say there would be at least a fair chance. My dream would be for Magik to be included too but I don't think that's particularly realistic. I hope we see Vision in the series too and that SW really gets a lot of really good development.

 

[Lip]

I really want it. If there was no mini-series then I would say there would be at least a fair chance. My dream would be for Magik to be included too but I don't think that's particularly realistic. I hope we see Vision in the series too and that SW really gets a lot of really good development.

I don't think it's realistic either. Unfortunately I believe it's going to take a relatively long time to see the New Mutants in the MCU.

And, IIRC, Vision is already confirmed to be in the Wanda series.

 

[Marvel united]

Ok, if you don't understand I'll explain.

1) I genuinely didn't want to go deep in this topic because it is exausting. @MarvelUnited doesn't mind the Duffer brothers directing the X-Men, but I'm sure he'll agree with what I'll say next: When we bring up the idea of race changing some characters to add more diversity, there is an endless debate that goes on for pages and pages where people just keep repeating their points. In the comicbook fandom I learned that there are a lot of resistance towards addressing more social issues. Now, I'm not mentioning any user in particular, but I genuinely wanted to stop the debate about the treatment of women there to avoid that exausting repetitive debate that goes on and on.

2) The link that I posted did address the issues he mentioned. I genuinely didn't want to make a huge post about each of them. And I would be repeating a lot of the points I already had made.

3) I am the only one in this thread (so far) against the idea of the Duffer Brothers directing the X-Men because of their treatment of female characters. I wanted to highlight that the problems I had mentioned is something that a whole community is aware and complaining about.

I'm not trying to start any "fight", I'm not being 'dismissive' and I'm not being passive agressive. I genuinely want to avoid the debates I've been on several times here that is exausting. And I didn't want to repeat the same things. That's just it.

Oh, I definitely agree. Everybody knows where I stand on the issue of more diversity and representation in an X-Men movie. And I think Feige will ultimately agree. But it does spawn an endless debate, it's up there with the topic of "How old should the X-Men be" and "How should the X-Men/mutants be introduced". Everybody has an opinion

And I think you raise many valid points about the Duffers' treatment of the female characters, I understand why you feel the way you do.. But I just think their influence can be counterbalanced by females and minorities - both in front of and behind the camera. The Duffers will be more socially conscious when making an X-Men movie. They have to be.

I'm just questioning if it's a good name (no point in coming up with a good reason to have a bad name), especially compared to something like Phoenix. Most of the other X-Men's code names are used a fair bit in comics, unlike Jean's. I guess Kitty is another one who is referred to by real name the majority of the time but she also has many different code names. Are you a fan of the name Marvel Girl? Differentiation or being easy to explain shouldn't be the primary reason here IMO, just choose the best name as that is major feature of the character.

Well, I'm sure many questioned whether "Ant-Man" was a good name. In fact, Marvel used it as a marketing ploy to promote the movie. "Marvel Girl" is certainly less ridiculous sounding name than Ant-Man imo. Phoenix is a good name but if we're talking about names not making sense then it makes no sense to call Jean the Phoenix when it's so closely tied to her most iconic story considering she's not the Phoenix yet. That's like calling Clint Barton "Ronan" instead of Hawkeye. Or Hulk as seen in TA "Professor Hulk" instead of just Hulk. Or Bucky in TFA, the "Winter Soldier".

Yes, I am a fan of the name. I think it's an awesome codename that calls back to the whimsical, fantastical nature of the X-Men comics that the Fox films have neglected to ignore. When you see merchandise based on the movie, I would personally like to see Jean's merch read as "Marvel Girl" instead of just "Jean Grey" while everybody else has a superhero name.

It doesn't have to be the main reason but It could be ONE of the major reasons. To call her something different from what the Fox movies have been calling her for 18 years. We're gonna probably hear the words "fresh and different" a lot as it relates to the MCU X-Men in the same way it did on HC. To present the X-Men in a completely different light.

 

[Lip]

Oh, I definitely agree. Everybody knows where I stand on the issue of more diversity and representation in an X-Men movie. And I think Feige will ultimately agree. But it does spawn an endless debate, it's up there with the topic of "How old should the X-Men be" and "How should the X-Men/mutants be introduced". Everybody has an opinion

It does end up into an endless debate because it comes down simply to "how you feel about it".

I had already pointed out a lot of the problems I have with them and posted links about it. If someone 1) Feels OK about those issues or 2) Feels they aren't "that problematic" or 3) Feels that, despite those problems the Duffers can do a better job with the X-Men, hence them being a good choice to direct... Then that's how you feel about it. I won't be bringing up the same points again and again to "try to get people on board with me".

I expressed how I feel about the Duffer Brothers and that's it.

And I think you raise many valid points about the Duffers' treatment of the female characters, I understand why you feel the way you do.. But I just think their influence can be counterbalanced by females and minorities - both in front of and behind the camera. The Duffers will be more socially conscious when making an X-Men movie. They have to be.

Well, if it does come down to them actually directing the MCU X-Men movies, I do hope there'll be a lot to counterbalance. And you better bet I'll be criticizing every move they make until they prove me wrong.

 

[THORin]

3) I am the only one in this thread (so far) against the idea of the Duffer Brothers directing the X-Men because of their treatment of female characters. I wanted to highlight that the problems I had mentioned is something that a whole community is aware and complaining about.

Just to be clear, I am also against the idea. I didn't say anything because I knew a debate would be unleashed because of it - but I am with you on this one.

 

[Frankeh]

I'm not trying to start any "fight", I'm not being 'dismissive' and I'm not being passive agressive. I genuinely want to avoid the debates I've been on several times here that is exausting. And I didn't want to repeat the same things. That's just it.

Fair enough. I guess this discussion has hit a dead end and maybe we should move on to something else.

 

[Marvel united]

I'll bite. What should the MCU X-Men series be called? The X-Men are in a unique situation. Because Fox already used the title "X-Men" as well as "X-Men: Insert subtitle" for their movies much like the MCU tends to do. For those reasons, I think "Uncanny X-Men" makes the most sense. It sends a clear message to the audience that these X-Men movies are very different from what they've seen. So for instance "Uncanny X-Men: Essex" for the sequel. The main brand itself could have the Uncanny adjective

 

[THORin]

I'll bite. What should the MCU X-Men series be called? The X-Men are in a unique situation. Because Fox already used the title "X-Men" as well as subtitles for their movies much like the MCU tends to do. For those reason, I think "Uncanny X-Men" makes the most sense. It sends a clear message to the audience that these X-Men movies are very different from what they've seen. So for instance "Uncanny X-Men: Essex" for the sequel. The main brand itself could be Uncanny

I never even thought about it, but that would be awesome.

 

[Lip]

I'll bite. What should the MCU X-Men series be called? The X-Men are in a unique situation. Because Fox already used the title "X-Men" as well as "X-Men: Insert subtitle" for their movies much like the MCU tends to do. For those reasons, I think "Uncanny X-Men" makes the most sense. It sends a clear message to the audience that these X-Men movies are very different from what they've seen. So for instance "Uncanny X-Men: Essex" for the sequel. The main brand itself could have the Uncanny adjective

Oh, I believe it will be Uncanny X-Men. If Sony hadn't used Amazing Spider-Man before, I'm sure Marvel would have taken that as well.

 

[Lip]

Now, really changing the subject: With this deal we won't be getting only X-Men movies, but also (very likely) cartoons as well. We had three different cartoons, each one with a different take. I confess I've never seen Wolverine And The X-Men because that title alone turns me off, because it reminds me of one of the things I dislike the most about the Fox films. Maybe I'm missing something good... but anyway, if we get a new cartoon, any thoughts on what possible approach they can take?

I'd also love to get some (good) animated movies. It's a chance to adapt iconic storylines that Marvel won't be adapting anything soon (maybe ever), like Days of Future Past, The Phoenix and Dark Phoenix storyline, God Loves, Man Kills, etc...

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-verse looks great. Hopefully it opens the door for more to come.

 

[Iceman]

I don't think it's realistic either. Unfortunately I believe it's going to take a relatively long time to see the New Mutants in the MCU.

And, IIRC, Vision is already confirmed to be in the Wanda series.

Probably yeah.

I did know that so not sure why I worded my post in that way lol. I’m really looking forward to seeing their relationship develop and hopefully this is a SW-focused story with the big guy helping out. I feel we didn’t get to see the best of Vision in the films so hopefully the pair of them get a top showing here.

 

[Marvel united]

I never even thought about it, but that would be awesome.

Oh, I believe it will be Uncanny X-Men. If Sony hadn't used Amazing Spider-Man before, I'm sure Marvel would have taken that as well.

I also think they'll use the comic font or a variation of it since Marvel always uses the comic fonts for their movies

Now, really changing the subject: With this deal we won't be getting only X-Men movies, but also (very likely) cartoons as well. We had three different cartoons, each one with a different take. I confess I've never seen Wolverine And The X-Men because that title alone turns me off, because it reminds me of one of the things I dislike the most about the Fox films. Maybe I'm missing something good... but anyway, if we get a new cartoon, any thoughts on what possible approach they can take?

I'd also love to get some (good) animated movies. It's a chance to adapt iconic storylines that Marvel won't be adapting anything soon (maybe ever), like Days of Future Past, The Phoenix and Dark Phoenix storyline, God Loves, Man Kills, etc...

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-verse looks great. Hopefully it opens the door for more to come.

You should absolutely see Wolverine and the X-Men. Wolverine is a main character but the show is brilliant - the rich character relationships and themes that are explored make it one of the best Marvel shows imo. I prefer it to X-Men: Evolution too. I promise that Wolverine doesn't take away from the other characters in the show. The Nightcrawler episode in particular is amazing.

For the cartoon side, we will probably see an X-Men show on Disney XD and a major marketing push on that front. We may see a couple of spinoffs as well i.e Hulk: Agents of Smash.

Marvel has been slacking in the animated movie department. I remember the Lionsgate animated movies from the early 2000s - it would be nice if Marvel brought back that label. I would love to see animated adaptations of classic X-Men stories like Dark Phoenix and Days of Future Past.

 

[Abudefduf]

Did Marvel not call Spider-Man "Spider-MAN" because there were already 2 characters in the MCU at point with the word "man" in their name?

Of course they did, what I doubt they would ever do is to introduce him, Miles' Spider-Man and Spider-Woman all in the span of a few years.

Look, the last thing I want is to turn this silly difference of opinion into yet another two pages-long discussion, so let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Marvel united]

Of course they did, what I doubt they would ever do is to introduce him, Miles' Spider-Man and Spider-Woman all in the span of a few years.

Look, the last thing I want is to turn this silly difference of opinion into yet another two pages-long discussion, so let's just agree to disagree.

To be fair, Jean has nothing to do with Kamala or Carol Danvers while Miles and Jessica Drew are both linked to Spider-Man. I'm sure Feige and co will take it for granted that people realise that "Marvel Girl" is not related to Captain Marvel (possibly) Ms. Marvel the same way most people understand Spider-Man is not related to Ant-Man in any way.

But yeah, let's agree to disagree on this subject.

 

[Lip]

For the cartoon side, we will probably see an X-Men show on Disney XD and a major marketing push on that front. We may see a couple of spinoffs as well i.e Hulk: Agents of Smash.

I heard the Marvel animated shows on Disney XD aren't particularly good. On the other hand, out of the three X-Men shows we had, all of them are considered to be good. So maybe (and hopefully) the fourth can be as well.

And about possible spin-offs, I would absolutely love to see animated spin-offs for New Mutants or other X-teams. I. Would. Love. It.

Marvel has been slacking in the animated movie department. I remember the Lionsgate animated movies from the early 2000s - it would be nice if Marvel brought back that label. I would love to see animated adaptations of classic X-Men stories like Dark Phoenix and Days of Future Past.

I'm thinking about the animated movies to be another exclusive thing to the Disney Streaming service.

And thanks, I'm checking out Wolverine and the X-Men!

 

[Iceman]

I'll bite. What should the MCU X-Men series be called? The X-Men are in a unique situation. Because Fox already used the title "X-Men" as well as "X-Men: Insert subtitle" for their movies much like the MCU tends to do. For those reasons, I think "Uncanny X-Men" makes the most sense. It sends a clear message to the audience that these X-Men movies are very different from what they've seen. So for instance "Uncanny X-Men: Essex" for the sequel. The main brand itself could have the Uncanny adjective

Let’s do it!

 

[Iceman]

Oh, I believe it will be Uncanny X-Men. If Sony hadn't used Amazing Spider-Man before, I'm sure Marvel would have taken that as well.

I would have loved a bunch of the series having comic titles like that.

 

[Iceman]

Well, if it does come down to them actually directing the MCU X-Men movies, I do hope there'll be a lot to counterbalance. And you better bet I'll be criticizing every move they make until they prove me wrong.

The female X-Men characters are such a big part of it and such a big part of Marvel’s female lineup in general, that I think every fan will be joining you if they don’t deliver on that front. If someone isn’t a fan of strong female characters then X-Men is not really the book for them!

 

[Lip]

Now thinking about it and considering what Marvel has done recently, I think one approach very likely they can take with the X-Men is the similar path they took with Marvel Rising: Really investing in diversity and not so popular characters.

So I believe the likes of having characters like Armor, or Dust, Forge, Warpath, Cecelia, among others in the regular cast is very big. And although it hurts a little the idea of the fan-favorites being left out, it's can also be interesting highlighting those characters in the cartoons.

 

[THORin]

Now thinking about it and considering what Marvel has done recently, I think one approach very likely they can take with the X-Men is the similar path they took with Marvel Rising: Really investing in diversity and not so popular characters.

So I believe the likes of having characters like Armor, or Dust, Forge, Warpath, Cecelia, among others in the regular cast is very big. And although it hurts a little the idea of the fan-favorites being left out, it's can also be interesting highlighting those characters in the cartoons.

Is that Squirrel-Girl I see there in the background?

 

[Iceman]

Now, really changing the subject: With this deal we won't be getting only X-Men movies, but also (very likely) cartoons as well. We had three different cartoons, each one with a different take. I confess I've never seen Wolverine And The X-Men because that title alone turns me off, because it reminds me of one of the things I dislike the most about the Fox films. Maybe I'm missing something good... but anyway, if we get a new cartoon, any thoughts on what possible approach they can take?

I'd also love to get some (good) animated movies. It's a chance to adapt iconic storylines that Marvel won't be adapting anything soon (maybe ever), like Days of Future Past, The Phoenix and Dark Phoenix storyline, God Loves, Man Kills, etc...

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-verse looks great. Hopefully it opens the door for more to come.

Some of the big storylines have been adapted in the cartoons. I wouldn’t mind getting some cartoons that went hand in hand with modern comics like X-Men Blue, Gold, Red and the new Uncanny, with animated movies covering the biggest old classic stories like those you mention. It’s time to go all out on X-Men media after this drought.

 

[Iceman]

I also think they'll use the comic font or a variation of it since Marvel always uses the comic fonts for their movies
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You should absolutely see Wolverine and the X-Men. Wolverine is a main character but the show is brilliant - the rich character relationships and themes that are explored make it one of the best Marvel shows imo. I prefer it to X-Men: Evolution too. I promise that Wolverine doesn't take away from the other characters in the show. The Nightcrawler episode in particular is amazing.

For the cartoon side, we will probably see an X-Men show on Disney XD and a major marketing push on that front. We may see a couple of spinoffs as well i.e Hulk: Agents of Smash.

Marvel has been slacking in the animated movie department. I remember the Lionsgate animated movies from the early 2000s - it would be nice if Marvel brought back that label. I would love to see animated adaptations of classic X-Men stories like Dark Phoenix and Days of Future Past.

I like that font for Uncanny X-Men

I prefer WatXM to X-Men Evolution too. Hopefully future animation is even better than what we’ve had so far.