Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

[Fincher]

You realize that Kitty was written as being in a relationship with Rachel for YEARS? Their romance wouldn't even be up for debate if Rachel was a man.

Actually, no, I didn't. If they were taken to be in a relationship, that's a different matter.

 

[Prettyricky]

What about when heterosexuality is an actual detriment to the story. Captain American and Sharon Carter absolutely did not work in the MCU. Like at all. It was shoehorned in because Captain America must be heterosexual at all costs. Would Stucky make a better story AND be the kind of representation so important to people (which you can't understand because, like you said, you're straight and see your sexuality in every movie)? Yes.

i dont clamor to see my sexuality in every marvel movie though, if theres a love story ok I guess but if its not there Im mot loosing sleep over it or calling CNN.Except there story did work and was a great way for cap to retire in endgame. What would him and bucky being gay add to the story? In civil war it would have been cap protecting his boyfriend who murdered his best friends parents, it wouldn't have the same impact as cap just protecting his friend.
Not trying to be mean but your rationale is you just want to see cap and buck with each other which comes off more as a personal fantasy and not a story point that make sense.

 

[Marvel united]

99.8%. of all relationships in media are heterosexual. There is no comparison, straught relationships are the **overwhelming** majority in media. The reason why this is never highlighted is because it's the default.

So anytime someone tries to represent a non-hetero relationship or person- no matter *how it's executed, you're always gonna have swaths of people complaining about it being "forced" into the movie and to me, that is the epitome of privilege. A straight person has never in their life, had to worry about a part of who they are being normalized in the media they consume everyday, let alone be meaningful represented.

The LGBT+ community exists. Why is it forced diversity to show more than one type of human being existing in these movies like they do in the real world?

 

[psylockolussus]

Its made up superheroes you want to see jump from page to screen as you remember reading them.

This is what I want. So I just don't agree with people not caring about staying true to what the characters look like in the comics and adding characters that weren't in the team just for the sake of representation. I want Iceman, Cyclops, all the core / b tier X-Men members of the comics to look eXactly similar to what they look like in the comics, when the mcu adapts them into live action.

Also Marvel Comics can always create new characters or build up eXisting characters like M or Cecilia, if they want more representation, and those characters could later appear in the movies - instead of changing characters' appearance/sexuality for the sake of representation in a movie.

 

[psylockolussus]

99.8%. of all relationships in media are heterosexual. There is no comparison, straught relationships are the **overwhelming** majority in media. The reason why this is never highlighted is because it's the default.

So anytime someone tries to represent a non-hetero relationship or person- no matter *how it's executed, you're always gonna have swaths of people complaining about it being "forced" into the movie and to me, that is the epitome of privilege. A straight person has never in their life, had to worry about a part of who they are being normalized in the media they consume everyday, let alone be meaningful represented.

The LGBT+ community exists. Why is it forced diversity to show more than one type of human being existing in these movies like they do in the real world?

Mcu can feature diversity without drastically changing someone's identity. For eXample, Iceman has been a white man for decades. There's no need to change his race. And not featuring every ethnicity in the first film WON'T / WILL NOT take away the message of the X-Men. Because if thats not the case, then you wouldn't have been supporting or interested in the X-Men in the first place.

They could always include include a latino in the sequels. Sunspot, Darwin, Cecilia Reyes (who is Puerto Rican) there's a room for them in the sequels. Theres really No need to racebend anybody not Xpecially someone who have been around since the 1960s. And Marvel Comics can always create new characters/Latin Mutants that they could build up in the comics and later use in the movies. I've been asking for them to do that for years instead of just recycling characters again and again.

 

[Marvel united]

Mcu can feature diversity without drastically changing someone's identity. For eXample, Iceman has been a white man for decades. There's no need to change his race. And not featuring every ethnicity in the first film WON'T / WILL NOT take away the message of the X-Men. Because if thats not the case, then you wouldn't have been supporting or interested in the X-Men in the first place.

They could always include include a latino in the sequels. Sunspot, Darwin, Cecilia Reyes (who is Puerto Rican) there's a room for them in the sequels. Theres really No need to racebend anybody not Xpecially someone who have been around since the 1960s. And Marvel Comics can always create new characters/Latin Mutants that they could build up in the comics and later use in the movies. I've been asking for them to do that for years instead of just recycling characters again and again.

This is what I want. So I just don't agree with people not caring about staying true to what the characters look like in the comics and adding characters that weren't in the team just for the sake of representation. I want Iceman, Cyclops, all the core / b tier X-Men members of the comics to look eXactly similar to what they look like in the comics, when the mcu adapts them into live action.

Also Marvel Comics can always create new characters or build up eXisting characters like M or Cecilia, if they want more representation, and those characters could later appear in the movies - Instead of changing characters' appearance/sexuality for the sake of representation in a movie.

You can't have it both ways. There is s lack of latino X-Men and the most high profile latino/latina X-characters we have are ones that aren't actual X-Men, like Roberto and Rictor & ones who are obscure like Cecilia and M. So we either make them X-Men from jump (because this is an adaptation, liberties are going to be taken) or we change an existing X-Man member to be latino. The problem needs to be resolved one way or another.

And a lot of these minority characters are not interchangeable. Characters like Bishop, Sunspot, Psylocke etc serve a specific story or arc that needs to be properly established first. So it's not as simple as "Throw Bishop up in there for black male representation". Bishop's presence needs to be justified by the story first.

Well, I don't see it the same way. To me, staying true to a character does not mean making sure they stay straight or white. Their skin color and sexuality are not why I fell in love with them as characters. A non-white Cyclops, Iceman or Beast -- or a gay Hank/Warren would only enhance the narrative that the X-Men franchise has built it's foundation on.

 

[Mad Ones]

i dont clamor to see my sexuality in every marvel movie though, if theres a love story ok I guess but if its not there Im mot loosing sleep over it or calling CNN.Except there story did work and was a great way for cap to retire in endgame. What would him and bucky being gay add to the story? In civil war it would have been cap protecting his boyfriend who murdered his best friends parents, it wouldn't have the same impact as cap just protecting his friend.
Not trying to be mean but your rationale is you just want to see cap and buck with each other which comes off more as a personal fantasy and not a story point that make sense.

Cap being willing to sacrifice everything for a friend he had a couple decades ago doesn't make much sense. Cap protecting someone he loves (romantically) by betraying his best friend has way more impact. I actually don't care about Stucky but it just makes more sense that way,

You're not clamouring to see your sexuality in every marvel movie because you already see your sexuality in every marvel movie. Are you kidding me with this?

 

[psylockolussus]

You can't have it both ways. There is s lack of latino X-Men and the most high profile latino/latina X-characters we have are ones that aren't actual X-Men, like Roberto and Rictor & ones who are obscure like Cecilia and M. So we either make them X-Men from jump (because this is an adaptation, liberties are going to be taken) or we change an existing X-Man member to be latino. The problem needs to be resolved one way or another.

And a lot of these minority characters are not interchangeable. Characters like Bishop, Sunspot, Psylocke etc serve a specific story or arc that needs to be properly established first. So it's not as simple as "Throw Bishop up in there for black male representation". Bishop's presence needs to be justified by the story first.

Well, I don't see it the same way. To me, staying true to a character does not mean making sure they stay straight or white. Their skin color and sexuality are not why I fell in love with them as characters. A non-white Cyclops, Iceman or Beast -- or a gay Hank/Warren would only enhance the narrative that the X-Men franchise has built it's foundation on.

Yes I can have it both ways.

Also, its highly disrespectful to the source material in my opinion, if you're going to just completely ignore what the characters look like in the comics Xpecially those who have been around for more than fortyyears. I've just mentioned 3 Latinos that can appear in a X-Men movie. There's no need to racebend.

And I don't care how obscure M, Cecilia Reyes, Darwin and Sunpot are. Sunspot can start in a New Mutants movie and later join the X-Men in the late 30s. While the rest can either appear in the first movie or the sequels. And its not gonna hurt the movie as well if there's zero latino character in the first movie. Looking at the successful foX-Men movies. Those four characters are as obscure as gotg were pre-2013. There are X-Men characters who are latinos... if you're all about embracing minorities, then their obscurity shouldn't be an issue and Marvel Studios would use less popular characters anyway. This is really what I don't like, you keep insisting to feature minorities but you don't want to use less popular characters from the comics who are minorities. It sounds like a big double standard to me and you're just willing to racebend a character which imo, doesn't benefit the character at all. If they use obscure characters, it is not like they would be replacing Marvel Girl, Cyclops and Rogue. And again, Rictor never joined the X-Men, so he's not a X-Man, so he shouldn't be mentioned/suggested.

And they can easily choose to use Bishop and Psylocke in the first movie if they want to. There's no rule how to introduce / adapt them. Have you seen the foX movies for eXample? The major complaint when those characters were adapted is how minimal their role was, not because they didn't adapt a certain storyline to introduce them. Plus nobody told us that the o5 is going to be the line up for the first MCU movie anyway, for you to dismiss them. Bishop and Psylocke could be in the first movie and get a decent/great role, without the time travel storyline or British Betsy/Kwannon saga. Similar to how Mcu didnt dwelve on Black Widow's origin in the first couple of movies she appeared in.

 

[Iceman]

2020! 1 year closer to seeing MCU X-Men.

 

[Lip]

 

[Fincher]

Cap protecting someone he loves (romantically) by betraying his best friend has way more impact.

Steve didn't betray Natasha by protecting Bucky...

 

[CaptainWagner]

It wouldn't bother me at all if Kitty were bi, but at the same time I wouldn't put too much weight on something being the creator's original intent. If tomorrow it were revealed that the creator of Storm wanted her to be white but was forced to make her black for some reason...nothing would change. Now maybe Kitty's orientation doesn't carry the same significance and there wouldn't be chants of #NotOurShadowcat, but if someone does care about some detail from their experiences with a character, they're not going to change their mind based on what was originally wanted or planned.

You say this as if anyone should be remotely concerned about fans pounding out "NotOutShadowcat" online because they're mad that she's Bi in the movie. (Which, honestly I'd love to happen, because Claremont brutally slamming them would be incredible to watch) Those people have no bearing on anything that matters, those are the people that SHOULD be offended by X-Men. Them being angry is a sign the movie has done something right.

And "White Storm" is an incomparable theoretical, because Storm's race is clearly written into her origin, wheras Kitty's sexuality (And Mystique and many others) were "straight-washed" by the censorship of the time.

 

[Prettyricky]

Cap being willing to sacrifice everything for a friend he had a couple decades ago doesn't make much sense. Cap protecting someone he loves (romantically) by betraying his best friend has way more impact. I actually don't care about Stucky but it just makes more sense that way,

You're not clamouring to see your sexuality in every marvel movie because you already see your sexuality in every marvel movie. Are you kidding me with this?

Well considering most of the marvel heroes so far have always been straight what am I suppose to say? How about this for thought, ruffalo and Evans are both outspoken people For diversity. Why don't they push for there characters to be gay?

 

[psylockolussus]

Nope. I think we've eXhausted this topic and I'm not gonna bother reading and replying to what you just posted.

Anyway, I look forward to Marvel Studios using minorities from the comics who always have the potential to shine and grow, and not just resort to race bending famous X-Men for the sake of representation aka forced diversity.

 

[Marvel united]

That's fine.

And I look forward to Marvel modernizing & updating this franchise -- Representing poc and other minorities both in front of & behind the camera. Letting diverse voices and perspectives; People who have firsthand experience of what it feels like to be "othered" and oppressed by society -- define and inform the X-Men for a new generation.

 

[TheVileOne]

That's fine.

And I look forward to Marvel modernizing & updating this franchise -- Representing poc and other minorities both in front of & behind the camera. Letting diverse voices and perspectives; People who have firsthand experience of what it feels like to be "othered" and oppressed by society -- define and inform the X-Men for a new generation.

Here's the perfect, best way to do it. Make a statement.

 

[CaptainWagner]

As a side note, I finished watching Sharp Objects and, if they want all the leads to be young, Taylor John Smith could make a good Cyclops.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Cap being willing to sacrifice everything for a friend he had a couple decades ago doesn't make much sense. Cap protecting someone he loves (romantically) by betraying his best friend has way more impact. I actually don't care about Stucky but it just makes more sense that way,

Maybe there's other more important things out in the world than who you ****?

 

[psylockolussus]

That's fine.

And I look forward to Marvel modernizing & updating this franchise -- Representing poc and other minorities both in front of & behind the camera. Letting diverse voices and perspectives; People who have firsthand experience of what it feels like to be "othered" and oppressed by society -- define and inform the X-Men for a new generation.

You don't even want to use their characters who are minorities. So I don't believe your idea about representation is a good one.

Again, changing someone characters' appearance/identity for an agenda is a disservice to the characters and the source material.

As for people behind the camera, they should get the best talent. It doesn't need to be specific race/gender to tackle the X-Men or else you would be firing Kevin Feige.

 

[MilkmanDan]

Cap being willing to sacrifice everything for a friend he had a couple decades ago doesn't make much sense. Cap protecting someone he loves (romantically) by betraying his best friend has way more impact. I actually don't care about Stucky but it just makes more sense that way,

Calling Bucky a friend Steve "had decades ago" may be technically true, but it is a very disingenuous way of describing their relationship. These aren't two friends who simply lost touch over the years. From Steve's point of view, not only was Bucky like a brother to him, but Bucky's apparent "death" was a recent tragedy.

There's nothing wrong with shipping Steve and Bucky. But I disagree with the notion that their story only works if it's a romantic relationship. To me, that underestimates the value of platonic love.

 

[Marvel united]

You don't even want to use their characters who are minorities. So I don't believe your idea about representation is a good one.

I do want to use minority characters. I'm not advocating for the original 5.

Again, changing someone characters' appearance/identity for an agenda is a disservice to the characters and the source material.

There is literally a panel from one of the most iconic X-Men stories of all time (Claremont's favorite in fact) that I would not be allowed to post because it explicitly draws and analogizes the word "Mutie" to a racial slur for black people that is rooted in centuries of oppression and discrimination. The "X-Men pushing an agenda" ship sailed a loooong time ago, bro.

As for people behind the camera, they should get the best talent. It doesn't need to be specific race/gender to tackle the X-Men or else you would be firing Kevin Feige.

But Kevin Feige understands this -- Hence why he pursued a black director for Black Panther, an Asian director for Shang-Chi and a Female director to direct Black Widow. He also got a Pakistani-Muslim woman to write Kamala Khan's story for her incoming show on Disney+.

The X-Men are coded racial and sexual minorities in the Marvel Universe. Those are the people will have the best handle on what the mutant experience is like.

 

[TheFuture]

Calling Bucky a friend Steve "had decades ago" may be technically true, but it is a very disingenuous way of describing their relationship. These aren't two friends who simply lost touch over the years. From Steve's point of view, not only was Bucky like a brother to him, but Bucky's apparent "death" was a recent tragedy.

There's nothing wrong with shipping Steve and Bucky. But I disagree with the notion that their story only works if it's a romantic relationship. To me, that underestimates the value of platonic love.

I think Steve feels responsible for what happened to Bucky in some way as well. Its easy to forget their relationship pre-serum; how Bucky was his big brother and almost protector. Imagine how Cap feels when he finds out not only did he die for nothing (Hydra grew exponentially anyway) but they had destroyed his friend and turned him into a servant for evil. He couldn't protect the man who was always there to protect him.

It's a tragedy on so many levels. That's what makes that reveal scene in CW possibly my favourite scene in the MCU; all their pain is real and legitimate. Tony at being betrayed. Steve's shame. Bucky's guilt for something he had no control of.

All this being said, I've kind of accepted that the MCU X-Men is going to see some significant departure from the source material; for nothing else other than differentiating from the Fox films.

I don't see anything too controversial, but where they can get away with being loose in their interpretations they'll go to town. I do think Mutants are going to be dripped fed into the MCU anyway as opposed to getting the Xmen in one film, which will give them a bit of space to weather any fan storms.

 

[Mad Ones]

Maybe there's other more important things out in the world than who you ****?

There are more important things than who you **** when the story is about two men and straight people are ranking what's important.

That kiss with his one-true-love's grand-niece sure was worth no-homoing Cap, though.

 

[Mad Ones]

Well considering most of the marvel heroes so far have always been straight what am I suppose to say? How about this for thought, ruffalo and Evans are both outspoken people For diversity. Why don't they push for there characters to be gay?

Saying nothing is an option you know.

 

[Catoti]

diversity for the sake of diversity while forgetting about the story is a HUGE mistake.

diversity in itself isn't an issue, and there are more than enough original poc / minority characters they could use without gender swapping, race swapping or whatever else swapping characters and calling upon the wrath of fans (lol), all I ask is that with the diversity they have good, strong stories that show off just how cool and good those characters are.