Marvel Films MCU X-Men - Part 4

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"I dont see it as something worth keeping, so we dont need it". Thats basically what youre saying (with 10 times more sentences than needed) but whatever.
Lets make all x men french, why not? As long their personalities are intact, who cares.

Nope.

It's 'we don't fundamentally need things that haven't deeply driven his character development'. And it's rather glaringly obvious that making all the X-men french would cause major characteristics to change for various specific characters. That's the difference. Some characteristics are superficial and some aren't. Nightcrawler being ethnically German is superficial. Magneto being a holocaust survivor is not. Xavier being white is superficial. Xavier being crippled is not. Etc.
 
Making Laura Kinney the main Wolverine for the franchise would be very different.
 
Nope.

It's 'we don't fundamentally need things that haven't deeply driven his character development'. And it's rather glaringly obvious that making all the X-men french would cause major characteristics to change for various specific characters. That's the difference. Some characteristics are superficial and some aren't. Nightcrawler being ethnically German is superficial. Magneto being a holocaust survivor is not. Xavier being white is superficial. Xavier being crippled is not. Etc.
Wait, how does them being french now make any more changes than kurt and piotr not being their nationality? You are contradicting yourself and its the easiest thing to make a vague comment without explaining it fully.
But you know what, dont bother, cuz im sure it wont make any sense, to me, whatsoever.
 
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Characters looking like their comicbook characters without pandering or forcing diversity... yeah I cannot wait to see that!
 
No, it's being able to recognize and identify actual traits of a character. Forge being the Government's golden fleece & having him manufacture anti-mutant weapons under the tutelage of Valerie Cooper is an actual construct of his story. Could this be changed in an adaptation? Yes. But it's not comparable to a race change to Cyclops because Scott being white is not a story construct nor is it a character trait.
Why is it so important to change Cyclops race if you are never going to act like it matters and make him look the same as a white Cyclops would look? Is it not your point that it would mean so much for the Native American community to have a Cyclops who looks like them be represented? Yet you also say you do not mind a fairer skinned actor of Native American origin that is white-passing. But he would not look like that community not in significant amount so which is it? You cannot have it both ways.

The X-Men are basically Marvel's catch-all 22 for anyone who feels unjustly alienated from mainstream society.
Did you just make that up? Kudos for that I suppose.
They are a stand-in for any outcast or person who doesn't conform to society's definition of "normal". You are correct in saying that this doesn't boil down ONLY to racial and sexual minorities.
Done! Moving on.

The X-Men have been stand-ins for numerous marginalized or shunned identities from writer to writer & story to story, even ones as simple as a High-school wallflower who get picked on for not fitting into his social cliques-- I'm not disputing this. This is what they've been about since 1963.

But the bread and butter of this franchise - the meat; the absolute core of it, lies within the parallelism and analogy to the bigotry, discrimination and violent persecution by society. The X-Men franchise's dramatic and emotional gravitas comes from the experiences & struggles of minority communities. The X-Men became relevant when Chris Claremont firmly established the link between mutants and real-worldr minority groups, going deeper than just the "Outcast hated because he's different" which was largely was Lee/Kirby's X-Men were about. That was as much as they could say about the Civil rights issue at that time.

Where do you think people draw the Martin Luther King vs. Malcom X political analogy from? Writers and creative commentators establishing the link between real political activism & the X-Men have been used to highlight important social issues -- One example being the Legacy Virus as a blatant parallel to HIV/AIDS and how it swept through the LGBT community as many politicaofficialsls turned a blind eye to their suffering. Sooo many X-Men stories derived from incidents or issues that are meant to directly parallel issues that affect minority communities.

Without the minority metaphor, the X-Men would have all just been mutant versions of Peter Parker who was also an outcast. No, what gives this franchise it's dramatic engine IS the coded subext of racial/sexual/xenophobic discrimination. That doesn't mean that's the "only type of minority", it just means that in the context of this franchise, a "mutant" is synonymous with "black" or "gay" in the most iconic, influential stories that define the X-Men. Chris Claremont's favorite X-Men story is God Loves, Man Kills because it, in his own words, epitomizes the X-Men in it's purest form.
You just went on a tangent about absolutely nothing. Your assertions in this text wall are nothing more than your opinions you spout off as fact.

Regardless of your flowery dialogue X-Men means something different to all fans. It was how Bryan got both Halle Berry and Ian Mckellen signed on to the first film project for vastly different reasons.

Even within the actual text (not even subtext) of that film itself the underlying attraction of not just the racial discrimination (Jewish/Black rights) but additionally the social ostracism of just being a teenager going through puberty are all equally important aspects of what make X-Men so universal.

I'm going to yell for everyone to hear even the ones in the back: X-Men do not belong to a certain group more than another!

That is all.
And the X-Men are progressives who fight for social justice. That's what an "SJW" is in it's most literal, technical definition. Some modern X-Men stories even have Trump commentary in them (Claremont's return to the X-Men with Magneto: Black #1). It's the calling card of the X-Men.

But I never said that people "automatically" want to see the movie. Context is important here too. As a black man, i've seen dozens of Tyler Perry movies where the characters look like me. Does that mean I'm falling head over heels to see every new Madea movie that drops in theaters? Absolutely not. But an African king & ruler over a sovereign nation set within the Marvel Cinematic Universe? You can bet I'm gonna be there.

Diversity IS a strength that contributes to wider appeal = more money. But having a diverse cast in a Jack Ass movie won't suddenly turn it into a billionaire dollar franchise. As I've said before, BRANDS are what sell today. Spider-Man being black and Captain America being black (two characters from highly successful franchises going on now) will mean more and produce bigger results than say, Larry Daler from 'Night At The Museum' being black.
No one is arguing having diversity is not a good thing just whether race and gender bending are the way to accomplish it predominantly. Especially considering the way they did this in Homecoming by not only changing the race but the motivations and character traits to INO.
And even then, name brands are not always a surefire, guarantee of success. If the movie looks uninteresting, boring, or uninspired, then nobody's showing up to see the movie. Terminator had female leads but the franchise was tired', everybody was sick of seeing the same story rehashed, albeit in a bland, mediocre way. We had just gotten Terminor Genisis 4 years before this movie came out and that undoubtedly contributed to the franchise fatigue in a major way.

Brands don't guarantee sucess, but pre-canned franchises guarantee the best chance at success. And when a movie is good, innovative - bolstering a diverse group of people, more will show up.

And another thing to take into account, minorities want to see themselves represented in more diverse roles and characters. Black Panther was an action blockbuster CBM in the most successful film franchise of all time, 'Crazy Rich Asians' was a romantic comedy drama film, 'Hustlers' was a dramatic heist film etc.

No ****, haha. Otherwise I wouldn't be a comic book fan much less a consumer of mass media where 80% of characters portrayed don't look like me.

I am sure you might have a good point in there somewhere but it is not very clear. You seem to assert that a black Spider-Man will obviously make money at the box office yet we can look at Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse as an indication otherwise as it too underperformed. That said, I love that film and it was critically lauded so too was considered a "good movie."

Look there is no secret formula unfortunately. Even Disney has bombs so to use diversity in good films as your main argument is not a 100% guarantee of success either.

The X-Men have 10-15 main characters that are the LEADS and name brand characters, the ones you see on movie posters, lunch boxes and backpacks-- and of those 15- 5 are poc. When you break them down context by character, they aren't series mainstays (Forge, Sunfire) or they require set-up and justification by the story (Bishop). I know the lore, I've been reading the comics for 24 years, since I was 5 years old. I know who's who and why these characters aren't interchangeable. The X-Men had 5-6 signature minority characters sprinkled throughout the 4 decades of 1963 to 2000.

Only in Grant Morrison's run did new and more diverse students start to be introduced and most of the new signature characters introduced from 2001 to 2020 have been minority characters.
Did you just forget the 90s and 80s with Generation X and New Mutants both having an extremely diverse cast?

None of those films underperformed because of any type of "progressive" stance (because let's call it was it is, you mean progressive politics). I didn't even know a new Rambo movie was out until the week before it premiered. And the movie was bad but the biggest reason why it failed was because it wasn't needed. Nobody asked for another Rambo film but the filmmakers did not justify it's existence by making a good film
Rambo did not have a progressive stance but a conservative one. But thanks for trying to guess my political philosophy by just an exchange on a messagee board. Read my words carfully I said any extreme political stance not just the left but the right too.
Who is going to see an X-Men movie to escape the times? The X-Men in best form, have always had commentary that socially relevantt? You're in the wrong movie if what you're looking for is an escape from commentary on modern social issues.
Almost everyone? Movies, even movies with social commentary, are supposed to transport its audience into another world. This is a fictional tale not a documentary after all.

Having commentary is subversive by definition what some are proposing is a in your face approach. That's the difference. That's why Claremont's works are so timeless because he doesn't plant a timestamp directly on his work and they can be realized not just at a particular period in history.
N,o it didn't. And their effect on Captain Marvel was (past tense) non-existent.
There is no way to know that until the next film comes out.
Statistics don't mean anything when they aren't broken down per capita. Black people overwhelmingly turned out for Black Panther yet they were still only 30% of the demographic because there are less black people than white peopblack community't change the fact that they turned out in huge numbers and the movie had a great impact on the blackcommunity which I've seen myself. Anecdotal experiences do matter because they are firsthand accounts
That is exactly what I am saying. I'm not an idiot I know there are less black people In the United States. Your condescension is noted and ignored though btw.

Nobody said to cut or change everybody who's white. All we're saying is that we want the X-Men to be representative of the people their stories are based on. That doesn't mean there wouldn't be any white characters, it just means we won't see a cast that is 70% straight, white people, or in Fox's case, 90% -- being the victims of racial hatred and persecution.
Actually that is what you keep implying by saying you would would be fine with a Homecoming-like overhaul of the characters which is something I can't support.
So if it happened three times with random bloggers and youtube personalities then it is cause for national alarm?

It doesn't have to be a political statement In of itself to have a more diverse cast. What I'm saying is that it comes with the territory of updating the X-Men for a new generation not unlike Homecoming updating Spider-Man's world to look like New York in 2017 and not 1962.


Welp.. :shrug:

(FYI -- Scott being Native, or Hank being south Asian or Bobby being Latino does not make them in name only. It changes only the most superficial aspect of them, which is their racial phenotype. But a racial phenotype is not an indicator of character. None of them are defined by their whiteness, they can still be the characters we all know and love with the same EXACT traits. They aren't culturally "white" or rather, European- like say, Moira or Banshee. They are generic white i.e the default.)
Here we go again...

I am out if they do anything close to the disrespectfulness of many of those adapted characters that were in HC.

And yes you clearly want it to be a political statement why on earth are you trying to deny it?
 
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Changes can go in more than one direction. My concern is that they might pull away from / gloss over the discrimination aspect like they did some aspects of Spider-Man.
Agreed hopefully they don't water down thee source material to make it more digestible to the general audience.
 
Wait, how does them being french now make any more changes than kurt and piotr not being their nationality? You are contradicting yourself and its the easiest thing to make a vague comment without explaining it fully.
But you know what, dont bother, cuz im sure it wont make any sense, to me, whatsoever.

I wasn't using Magneto and Xavier as examples of characters who couldn't be french. Merely illustrating the difference between superficial traits and non-superficial ones. The 'make everyone french' hypothetical is so wildly ridiculous it shouldn't even need further comment. But if you really must have examples, then, aside from the fact that the team as a whole is literally about diversity so making literally everyone the same would be ruining the entire team on the face of it:

Rogue is fundamentally wrapped up in southern US ideas and behaviors from top to bottom. The idea that the same character could exist growing up in France is obviously bizarre.

Sunfire's entire identity is predicated on being Japanese.

Warpath's entire identity is predicated on being Native American.

Boom boom and Jubilee are both so fundamentally built on the concept of a valley girl that you really can't take the American out of them.

Marrow cannot exist as the product of any normal nation-state (except insofar as she's been fundamentally rejected by it, in which case, sure, France or the US makes no difference).

The Guthries are all fundamentally tied to Kentucky.

Etc,etc. So, no, you cannot just 'take everyone and make them all french'. You could easily make some of them french, if you had some reason to. I would have no objection whatsoever to a French Magneto or Xavier, in fact. Hell, as a holocaust survivor Magneto pretty much has to come from one of a very small list of european countries - and France is on that list - and Xavier is already a french name to start with.

It remains a fact that Nightcrawler's 'ties' to Germany and german culture are borderline non-existent, so his 'germanness' is still a superficial trait that could be altered (even to Frenchness, if you like). And most of Colossus' ties to Russia have already been tossed by the wayside and forgotten in the comics because they were rendered obsolete by the end of the Cold War.
 
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I wasn't using Magneto and Xavier as examples of characters who couldn't be french. Merely illustrating the difference between superficial traits and non-superficial ones. The 'make everyone french' hypothetical is so wildly ridiculous it shouldn't even need further comment. But if you really must have examples, then, aside from the fact that the team as a whole is literally about diversity so making literally everyone the same would be ruining the entire team on the face of it:

Rogue is fundamentally wrapped up in southern US ideas and behaviors from top to bottom. The idea that the same character could exist growing up in France is obviously bizarre.

Sunfire's entire identity is predicated on being Japanese.

Warpath's entire identity is predicated on being Native American.

Boom boom and Jubilee are both so fundamentally built on the concept of a valley girl that you really can't take the American out of them.

Marrow cannot exist as the product of any normal nation-state (except insofar as she's been fundamentally rejected by it, in which case, sure, France or the US makes no difference).

The Guthries are all fundamentally tied to Kentucky.

Etc,etc. So, no, you cannot just 'take everyone and make them all french'. You could easily make some of them french, if you had some reason to. I would have no objection whatsoever to a French Magneto or Xavier, in fact. Hell, as a holocaust survivor Magneto pretty much has to come from one of a very small list of european countries - and France is on that list - and Xavier is already a french name to start with.

It remains a fact that Nightcrawler's 'ties' to Germany and german culture are borderline non-existent, so his 'germanness' is still a superficial trait that could be altered (even to Frenchness, if you like). And most of Colossus' ties to Russia have already been tossed by the wayside and forgotten in the comics because they were rendered obsolete by the end of the Cold War.
More vague claims, all those characters could still be adapted as french.
I do want portugese cyclops though. Portugese cyke would be the ****.
Also, belgian angel or we riot.
 
Why is it so important to change Cyclops race if you are never going to act like it matters
Never said it wouldn't matter. I've already mentioned twice that it would factor into his story and serve as social subtext for the treatment of Native Americans. Would it be his defining character trait? No. But it would be part of his origin and it could inform how his outlook on certain things. And you can inject little quirks derived from his culture into scenes that wouldn't be "contrived" in canon as you put it.

It is an easy change to make Scott & Alex Alaskan natives
Is it not your point that it would mean so much for the Native American community to have a Cyclops who looks like them be represented?
Never said he'd be white-passing with only 1% Apache in him. I said he could still resemble Scott from the source material which can be interpreted many different ways.

Booboo Stewart and Taylor Lautner are both visibly not "white" & could still resemble comic Scott. it wouldn't be as jarring of a change as a dark-skinned black Cyclops as Bored Guy mentioned.

Booboo-Stewart-750x422.jpg

Even within the actual text (not even subtext) of that film itself the underlying attraction of not just the racial discrimination (Jewish/Black rights) but additionally the social ostracism of just being a teenager going through puberty are all equally important aspects of what make X-Men so universal.
Already acknowledged in my previous post to you
No one is arguing having diversity is not a good thing just whether race and gender bending are the way to accomplish it predominantly.
Some race-bending is going to be neccessary to tip the scales. No lead X-Men besides Storm are poc. Unless we're gonna have Christopher Muse taking up the spot Gambit used to occupy as a main X-Man because there is not infinite space.

If for some reason, they go with the O5 then gender-bending may also come into play

I'm sure you might have a good point in there somewhere but it is not very clear. You seem to assert that a black Spider-Man will obviously make money at the box office yet we can look at Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse as an indication otherwise as it too underperformed. That said, I love that film and it was critically lauded so too was considered a "good movie."
If Miles Morales was in the MCU and it was a live action film, it would have been a bigger deal and got more people's attention. Just like Captain America now being black will do.

Yes, Spider-Man is a hugely popular brand but that was an animated feature not a four quadrant blockbuster
Look there is no secret formula unfortunately. Even Disney has bombs so to use diversity in good films as your main argument is not a 100% guarantee of success either.
Of course not, but it's a factor that can contribute to success. Having more than one type of person represented in your film, in a meaningful way- will make more groups want to see the film. It's not the recipe to success, it's an ingredient. There's a reason why execs are pushing for more diversity in the market. They go where the money is.
Did you just forget the 90s and 80s with Generation X and New Mutants both having an extremely diverse cast?
I said X-Men
Rambo did not have a progressive stance but a conservative one.
And nobody saw the film because nobody was interested in seeing another Rambo film.
Almost everyone? Movies, even movies with social commentary, are supposed to transport its audience into another world. This is a fictional tale not a documentary after all.
And you'd get that fantastical escape from the real world's boundaries with sprawling superpowered mutant battles, colorful costumes and badass technology.

But you aren't seeing an X-Men movie to escape from the social reality of the real world i.e the "Heavy times" of today.
That's why Claremont's works are so timeless because he doesn't plant a timestamp directly on his work and they can be realized not just at a particular period in history.
. Right, hence why Claremont had Magneto come across MAGA stand-ins complaining about immigrants and then have his team free Mutant children from Detention centers held in Texas -- in a comic published in 2018. Hmm, I wonder if that has anything to do with the current political climate..

Not even mentioning X-Men: Red (2018) which saw Jean and her team of X-Men lead a group of mutant refugees fleeling persecution from their Government's military to seek asylum in Atlantis.

Nope, doesn't ring a bell at all.

There is no way to know that until the next film comes out.
Captain Marvel already came out. There was a huge smear campaign perpetrated by childish men in an attempt to derail the movie. It failed. There is nothing more to prove. Carol Danvers has been embraced by the general audience and she's going to be the face of the MCU going forward, whether they like it or not.

That is what you keep implying by saying you would would be fine with a Homecoming-like overhaul of the characters which is something I can't support.
But Homecoming had white characters. It was just a multi racial group of characters that perfectly represented what Queens, NYC looks like today.

So if it happened three times with random bloggers and youtube personalities then it is cause for national alarm?
Code Switch is an award winning Media organization site that specializes in topics of race and culture. The article I linked was their analysis of X-Men and how mostly-white, mostly straight mutants standing in for minorities in socially charged stories about discrimination & oppresion is disingenuous at best.

Not enough for you? Try Esquire's take on the X-Men You're Overthinking the X Men

If your only refute to their sentiment is "Well, the X-Men aren't only a metaphor for racial, religious and sexual minorities" despite the fact that 80% of the dramatic conflict and relevance of the X-Men comes from these parallels and analogies. The dramatic conflict of 'Operation: Zero Tolerance' and 'Genosha' does not come, simply from a bullied kid in HS (Poc and LGBT are bullied all the time in HS btw so the Puberty metaphor can be applied there too). Yes, the mutant is also an analogy for Puberty and commencement into adulthood, but the racial, religious and sexual discrimination subtext is what comes into play after that fact and is what drives the conflict of this franchise.

I'm out if they do anything close to the disrespectfulness of many of those adapted characters that were in HC.
Well, I guess all you can do is hope that Feige doesn't follow the model that has already proven successful raking in billions of dollars for him. He's following it into Phase 4. So good luck with that
 
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I mean, between Feige saying the MCU X-Men will be "quite different" from what Fox did, and his VP (who is both Latina and LGBT) calling the X-Men name outdated --

That's exactly what I thought. Not only Feige's statements, but the other producers involved. And not only her saying the X-men name is outdated, but the several statements about more inclusion moving forward. Anyway, I don't see their version of the X-Men being less diverse than Eternals...

a contemporary reimagining of the franchise.

Bingo. We're not in the 80s anymore.
 
Never said it wouldn't matter. I've already mentioned twice that it would factor into his story and serve as social subtext for the treatment of Native Americans. Would it be his defining character trait? No. But it would be part of his origin and it could inform how his outlook on certain things. And you can inject little quirks derived from his culture into scenes that wouldn't be "contrived" in canon as you put it.

It is an easy change to make Scott & Alex Alaskan natives Never said he'd be white-passing with only 1% Apache in him. I said he could still resemble Scott from the source material which can be interpreted many different ways.

Booboo Stewart and Taylor Lautner are both visibly not "white" & could still resemble comic Scott. it wouldn't be as jarring of a change as a dark-skinned black Cyclops as Bored Guy mentioned.

View attachment 30933

Wow did you just try to rebuff a claim of you wanting a whitewashed Native American with a whitewashed "Native American?" Taylor Luantner is white.

Raised as a Roman Catholic, Lautner has Austrian, Dutch, English, French, German, Irish, and Swiss ancestry, and has stated that he has "distant" Native American ancestry

Bless your heart. I genuinely do not know what to tell you.

Already acknowledged in my previous post to you Some race-bending is going to be neccessary to tip the scales. No lead X-Men besides Storm are poc. Unless we're gonna have Christopher Muse taking up the spot Gambit used to occupy as a main X-Man because there is not infinite space.

If for some reason, they go with the O5 then gender-bending may also come into play

I never said "some" race changing wasn't fine (again look at my fan art fan cast) just hoping they will not go overboard pulling them to INO territory like you keep insinuating is a good idea.

I don't think gender swapping is necessary at all though!
If Miles Morales was in the MCU and it was a live action film, it would have been a bigger deal and got more people's attention. Just like Captain America now being black will do.

Yes, Spider-Man is a hugely popular brand but that was an animated feature not a four quadrant blockbuster Of course not, but it's a factor that can contribute to success. Having more than one type of person represented in your film, in a meaningful way- will make more groups want to see the film. It's not the recipe to success, it's an ingredient. There's a reason why execs are pushing for more diversity in the market. They go where the money is. I said X-Men
And nobody saw the film because nobody was interested in seeing another Rambo film.

You keep flip-flopping to serve your own advantages as the conversation progresses. You have a clear stance one minute then a more malleable one the next on the same issue. You are giving off the dog from Up vibes here! Haha.
And you'd get that fantastical escape from the real world's boundaries with sprawling superpowered mutant battles, colorful costumes and badass technology.

But you aren't seeing an X-Men movie to escape from the social reality of the real world i.e the "Heavy times" of today. . Right, hence why Claremont had Magneto come across MAGA stand-ins complaining about immigrants and then have his team free Mutant children from Detention centers held in Texas -- in a comic published in 2018. Hmm, I wonder if that has anything to do with the current political climate..

Not even mentioning X-Men: Red (2018) which saw Jean and her team of X-Men lead a group of mutant refugees fleeling persecution from their Government's military to seek asylum in Atlantis.

Nope, doesn't ring a bell at all.
Have any of those titles and storylines been adapted into several different mediums with fifty years of retelling and adapting under their belt because they resonate with everyone? No didn't think so. Also none of that is Claremont at his best. Why are you even comparing as I never even mentioned modern comics?

Captain Marvel already came out. There was a huge smear campaign perpetrated by childish men in an attempt to derail the movie. It failed. There is nothing more to prove. Carol Danvers has been embraced by the general audience and she's going to be the face of the MCU going forward, whether they like it or not.
I'm sure Star Wars thought they were in the all clear after the backlash on RoS yet still making money off of that movie. Like I said we don't know for sure if there will be any CM fallout at the box office yet until the next one comes out. And there might not be. We just don't know yet.
But Homecoming had white characters. It was just a multi racial group of characters that perfectly represented what Queens, NYC looks like today.
Here we go again with you just not being able to understand me. I thought HC's race bending was a fail. First it was a lie that everyone knew about "MJ" that Feige kept doubling down on.

Then they went out of there way to make the characterization of most of those characters nonexistent to their comic counterparts iconography. Do you really want that as the strategy for X-Men? Seriously, I am curious.

Code Switch is an award winning Media organization site that specializes in topics of race and culture. The article I linked was their analysis of X-Men and how mostly-white, mostly straight mutants standing in for minorities in socially charged stories about discrimination & oppresion is disingenuous at best.

Not enough for you? Try Esquire's take on the X-Men You're Overthinking the X Men
You keep missing the point. I don't care and neither does a vast majority of moviegoers. But Feige should feel somehow emboldened to take what this small sect of fans say as gospel?

That's like only 0.5/10 of the population being allowed to decide who gets to be president of a country.

I genuinely say that with all due respect. Again, no one should be the one to take ownership of the X-Men fandom more than another. It's only fair that we all are allowed to have our thoughts without one governing how the fandom should be.
If your only refute to their sentiment is "Well, the X-Men aren't only a metaphor for racial, religious and sexual minorities" despite the fact that 80% of the dramatic conflict and relevance of the X-Men comes from these parallels and analogies. The dramatic conflict of 'Operation: Zero Tolerance' and 'Genosha' does not come, simply from a bullied kid in HS (Poc and LGBT are bullied all the time in HS btw so the Puberty metaphor can be applied there too). Yes, the mutant is also an analogy for Puberty and commencement into adulthood, but the racial, religious and sexual discrimination subtext is what comes into play after that fact and is what drives the conflict of this franchise.

Well, I guess all you can do is hope that Feige doesn't follow the model that has already proven successful raking in billions of dollars for him. He's following it into Phase 4. So good luck with that
Into the Spiderverse was a far better film than either of those HC movies limo but did not make nearly as much money. Does that mean they should scrap all plans for sequels? No.

Conversely movies like Venom did better than Spider-Man: Homecoming relatively does that mean every SM film needs to start following model? Don't even get me started on Transformers movie quality to revenue ratio.

Sometimes good ideas are good ideas and bad are bad regardless of their box office outcome. Homecoming's race bending and character overhauls are in the bad category as far as I am concerned.
 
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With all this debating it seems like the best solution is using the female POC version of the biggest marquee character Wolverine. Laura Kinney is an established character from the comics. She's been Wolverine in the past, and she has never had her chance as Wolverine in the films. There's already been tons of live-action movies starring Wolverine.

So you make one of the most notable biggest characters of the franchise the existing alternate female version, the legacy Wolverine character.
 
75% of the X-Men mythos is related/tied to mutant persecution/exploitation. The other 35% are cosmic elements like the Shi'ar, The Brood, Phalanx etc but the core conflict will always be "Fighting for a world that hates and fears them".
80d99ed0087945d45f23f0bfc8a05bb3fe886bd18a33aa6a9117490b097c210b.jpg
 
I'm kind of hoping they do Laura, Daken, and some kind of search for Wolverine thread. Then when they find him, they can have THE WOLVERINES.
 
The official D23 site is implying New Mutants is part of the MCU calling it an “electrifying new addition to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.”

EN82lwHXkAAQXLB



Here’s the link.

So the New Mutants might end up being retconned into the MCU after all! Who knows maybe there might be a post credit scene in NM which ties into the MCU! If the movie does well I can totally see Marvel making part of the universe!

In all seriousness, this is most likely a typo and this isn’t actually the case. That line of differentiation between a Marvel film that’s MCU and a Marvel film that isn’t simply isn’t being made here because the person who wrote this doesn’t care to make that distinction. Take it with the grain of salt as you should until we get actual confirmation.
 
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The official D23 site is implying New Mutants is part the MCU calling it an “electrifying new addition to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.”

EN82lwHXkAAQXLB



Here’s the link.

So the New Mutants might end up being retconned into the MCU after all! Who knows maybe there might be a post credit scene in NM which ties into the MCU! If the movie does well I can totally see Marvel making part of the universe!

In all seriousness, this is most likely a typo or mistake and this isn’t actually the case. That line of differentiation between a Marvel film that’s MCU and a Marvel film that isn’t simply isn’t being made here because the person who wrote this doesn’t care to make that distinction. Take it with the grain of salt as you should until we get actual confirmation.

If this is real id expect to see the marvel studios logo in the final trailer which should drop sometime in March.
 
The official D23 Fanclub site is implying New Mutants is part of the MCU calling it an “electrifying new addition to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.”

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Here’s the link.

So the New Mutants might end up being retconned into the MCU after all! Who knows maybe there might be a post credit scene in NM which ties into the MCU! If the movie does well I can totally see Marvel making part of the universe!

In all seriousness, this is most likely a typo or mistake and this isn’t actually the case. That line of differentiation between a Marvel film that’s MCU and a Marvel film that isn’t simply isn’t being made here because the person who wrote this doesn’t care to make that distinction. Take it with the grain of salt as you should until we get actual confirmation.
i certainly hope not. That's like kicking off the Spider-Man franchise with a Miles Morales movie made by Sony Pictures. Save them for the actual X-Men movies. The New Mutants are meant to be the legacy to the original 5
 
The message and themes of the X-Men evolving to reflect what those ideals mean in contemporary society. It's really that simple.
Strange that it only seems to grow and change the way you dictate it to. Hmmm...
Case closed. There is nothing more to be said. This is the crux of my argument and you agree that it is necessary.

Merely changing someone's race does not make them "in name only". Hank McCoy would still be a genius intellect who uses Shakespearean vocab and dry sarcasm just as he does in the comics -- None of that changes if he's not white unless they decide to deliberately change his characterization which is separate from design.

Also, acknowledging their race and touching upon intersectionality does not make them "in name only" either as you think is the case with Scott
Case not closed for one reason: I never said him being Native American and that being apart of the backstory made him "in name only". Never did I ever write that.

You wrote several times, however, contradictory claims about not making a "political statement" because he wouldn't look act or function any differently than Cyclops normally would in the comics which does suggest it would not be brought up in the context of the story.

You even suggested a white actor for the Native American version of Scott you have been selling. Which I find to be kind of objectionable given how much you were trying to push the thought of what seeing an NA as the leader of a superhero team would mean to that community.

Wouldn't that be kind of a slap in the face? Could you imagine watching a live-action Pocahontas movie by Disney but the lead is played by Megan Fox? That would be the equivalent giving Taylor Lautner the role using your framing of the situation.

Did you really not have the forethought to actually look up more real options for the role given this was the cause you decided to martyr?

Would it have been so hard to find an actor like Martin Sensmeier who is maybe perfect for the role if it were to be race changed?
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Literally, one of the first pictures to come up when you google "Native American actor" in Google is one of him. It couldn't have been that difficult.

I was so ready to let everything go because I agree that in the end as long as they have their iconography then a race change doesn't mean much.

But again you keep using "Homecoming" as the blueprint for the way things turn out for characterization and actor selection and asserting it as a good thing. Tell me what about a snarky, bookish and frumpy looking young girl screams Mary Jane? What about a frail-looking, self-aggrandizing whiz kid shouts Flash Thompson?

They sure are sticking to the characterizations aren't they?
 
I hope there is a plan to get 2 teams up and running long term, one run by Cyclops and the other by Storm. Probably a bit too much early on but the MCU can mine these X-Men rights for decades.
 
i certainly hope not. That's like kicking off the Spider-Man franchise with a Miles Morales movie made by Sony Pictures. Save them for the actual X-Men movies. The New Mutants are meant to be the legacy to the original 5
I just don't see them polluting the mcu with a film that wasn't overseen by Feige and company from the get go.
 
I really like those Storm and Jean Grey costumes, Cyclops and Wolverine not so much.
 
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