Most butchered character in a Marvel film??

[redlion2]

Phoenix. I can see the complaints about Galactus, but at least he was an intergalactic threat...they at least managed not to screw up on that aspect. But with the Phoenix, it was a mess...they couldn't decide if they wanted Jean Grey or Dark Phoenix, and she was pretty small-scale for a character known for being one of the most powerful in the Marvel Universe. That it happened to a character that is so recognizable in Marvel history makes it worse than some of the lower-tier characters being butchered.

So you think they should have gone with the cosmic entity aspect from out of nowhere? It took several issues over a period of time to build up to DP in the comics. The time restraints of a single movie and the lack of knowledge from the general audience might not have gone over too well. IMO.

Brian Singer had already started the handwriting on the wall for DP at the end of X2 and I don't think he was going to be too fantastical with the origin in any case, even if he had remained the director.

For the record, as much as I liked the X-men franchise, they should just start over from scratch, get the X-men right, ALL OF THEM, and do the films the way they're supposed to be.....just like the comics.

 

[Savage]

No but they could have brought her power up to a cosmic scale anyway. She was so angry at yet caused so little damage. This is supposed to be the entity that puts fear into the hearts of the likes of Galactus himself.

 

[Spade]

Exactly. Even when they just focused on her being this crazy loon with power, they didn't even do an efficient job at that. The scale in that final destruction scene was incredibly anti-climactic. Seeing what they had planned in pre-productiton, the movie should have focused less on random mutants showing off superpowers if it would have meant that Jean actually came across as someone who had to be killed to be stopped.

 

[redlion2]

No but they could have brought her power up to a cosmic scale anyway. She was so angry at yet caused so little damage. This is supposed to be the entity that puts fear into the hearts of the likes of Galactus himself.

Yup, they should have. Look, I'm making no excuses for anything that was in the ENTIRE franchise but given what had/has already been presented....Did anyone really expect that? I know I didn't. Maybe hoped, but didn't expect it.

As I said, they should start over and do it right.

 

[Spade]

Seeing as how Wolverine is fully in gear for shooting, it doesn't seem as if Marvel's Wolvie hard-on is going to flag anytime soon. I fully expect a sequel to the third that's even worse than TLS sometime after Hugh hits the big screen again what with the incentive Tom Rothman has to continue this franchise.

 

[nocomics]

Everything about the Fantastic Four franchise was horrible.The only thing done right was The Thing's appearence.Galactus was horrible.

I liked Glactus look,I don't think the purple armor would of made him very imposing on screen. I thought the vapor cloud looked very imposing and was well done.
I think they are saving that gay ash purple armor for SS movie

 

[redlion2]

Seeing as how Wolverine is fully in gear for shooting, it doesn't seem as if Marvel's Wolvie hard-on is going to flag anytime soon. I fully expect a sequel to the third that's even worse than TLS sometime after Hugh hits the big screen again what with the incentive Tom Rothman has to continue this franchise.

To be honest, I'm not looking forward to the Wolverine or Magneto film at all at this point. Maybe that will all change later. I hope Marvel get the rights back to X-men and start over fresh.

 

[Spade]

I liked Glactus look,I don't think the purple armor would of made him very imposing on screen. I thought the vapor cloud looked very imposing and was well done.
I think they are saving that gay ash purple armor for SS movie

What is it that they say about correlation between people who use the term "gay" to mean stupid and idiocy...?

And so that we can say it once and for all: in the same summer where Fox (who brought us Not-So-Dark Phoenix and Ben-devil) decided Galactus in a purple armored suit would be stupid, Michael Bay raked in millions off of a 30-foot tall Optimus Prime transforming on the big screen. Can you spell "self-owned"?

 

[Savage]

Well now that I know Galactus was in the cloud and being saved for a sequel, I'm actually a-okay with the whole thing. They didn't want to rush a design for 5 minutes of screen time when they'll probably stuck with that design for the SS movie.

The and the storm was pretty freakin terrifying anyway. I mean seeing that thing swirl right near the earth and dwarf it...man. My jaw dropped.

 

[Spade]

I can't really see where the fear was from. I mean, it was a cloud. They could make a pretty frickin' huge asteroid coming in it's place and my nonchalance would be steadfast. I guess that's part of the reason I never got disaster epics like Armageddon...

 

[Savage]

Huh. Well I guess that's on you then. Being swallowed up by a giant gallactic storm kinda freaks me out.

 

[KangConquers]

Nothing could dissapoint for me, as much as Galactus and Doom.

Doom is the #1 villain in marvel...only Magneto comes close.

Galactus is the most powerful villain we've ever seen in a movie.

And both were butchered.

Doom was less imposing than Bullseye.

Galactus was a big happy cloud from Super Mario.

 

[Savage]

Would you have felt better about "Galactus" if it wasn't refered to by that name?

I felt that Doom was plenty imposing. They just emphasised the more mad scientist nature of the character (as his original representation had him) instead of the royal overlord part.

Different does not always equal bad, guys.

So far no-one has beaten Typhoid Mary in the butchered department. At least they tried to have some kind of semblance with Doom. Typhoid was just...what?!

 

[BMM]

So you think they should have gone with the cosmic entity aspect from out of nowhere? It took several issues over a period of time to build up to DP in the comics. The time restraints of a single movie and the lack of knowledge from the general audience might not have gone over too well. IMO.

She didn't have to be a cosmic entity, at least not in the way of the alien Phoenix Force, especially since that wasn't included in the original comic book telling anyway... but she could have posed more of a threat. I would have been happier if they had just stayed consistent with what was shown at the end of X2. After a three year wait, they completely ditched the massive Phoenix effect rising from Alkali Lake, and that alone would have provided for some great, large scale visuals.

 

[KangConquers]

Would you have felt better about "Galactus" if it wasn't refered to by that name?

I felt that Doom was plenty imposing. They just emphasised the more mad scientist nature of the character (as his original representation had him) instead of the royal overlord part.

Different does not always equal bad, guys.

So far no-one has beaten Typhoid Mary in the butchered department. At least they tried to have some kind of semblance with Doom. Typhoid was just...what?!

Who cares.

Having Doctor Doom not be from Latveria and speak with a thick eastern european accent, and having his anger for Reed not be defined by a college accident, is like having Spider-Man be from Madrid, and having Uncle Ben's death not define his character.

Doctor Doom is that important. He's THE villain in Marvel. You can't screw with that.

It's one thing to screw with Typhoid Mary, or Bullseye, or bad place, even Sabretooth.

But when you start royally ****ing Doom, you royally **** the movie he's in.

Doom being the way he was, was as bastardized as if Superman flew because he had wings...it's a complete bastardization of one of comics greatest characters. period.

 

[Savage]

Movie Doom IS from Latveria. The comics don't depict him with a thick accent (and it would be be obvious. For example all Germans seem to use Vs in place of Ws) and hey, he did go to school in America. Depending on how young he started he could have grown up with an American accent. Executive of a company? Why not? Doom's always been a smart guy.

In the comics he inherited the money after pretty much being unseen since College...Comic book Doom never had a job. Although this aspect is changed in the movie, Reed is still responsible for the accident that caused Doom to become Doom. That is what is fundamental. Their rivalry and Doom pretty much believing that it's everybody's fault but his own.

That said, things like "Marco Polo" and his general attitude were bit more...chipper. Less dignified than the doom that we're used to. That's the main difference here. His demeanor. They managed to keep his motivations intact but completely changed his demeanor and that bothered me...At first.

But hey, this is a thread pretty much made for complaining so I guess changing Doom's demeanor is a bigger deal than changing entire characters. Oh well. I know I'm in the minority by just liking these movies alone so carry on.

 

[Spade]

I don't think you should feel silenced, though. We are talking about something that it hotly debated by nature.

Let the war of opinions rage on, I say!

 

[Savage]

Eh, well with that said I tend to look at these movie incarnations in the same way that I look at Ultimate characters or movie remakes. If I don't like it then I can go back to the original anyway. I judge these characters on their own terms and movie Doom, Ultimate Doom, regular Doom are all different but awesome characters. Equally enjoyable on their own terms.

If by butchered we're talking about CHANGED characters alone then hey, why not include the likes of Blade? If we're talking about characters that they missed the boat or the entire point of then I really would not include Doom because when you try to compare the movie with the comic book character the differences are either superficial as bad place (accent and such) or just nitpicks (he ran a company...He doesn't even do that anymore. He's in Latveria in his castle scheming and doing pretty much the same things that comic book Doom does).

As I said before, the main difference is this guy's entire attitude and demeanor. Very nonchalante and celebrity-like as opposed to king-like. I can't pretend that I did not enjoy this aspect of movie Doom. Julian McMahon was very fun to watch and hate.

 

[Bubonic]

But the attitude and demeanour is what makes or breaks the character.
If you'd change your attitude and demeanour, you'd be a different person, so would I.
If your translating a character from the pages of a comic to the big screen, and this guy is the badass hardcore enough to have inspired Darth Vader, then for christ sakes, have him have some screen presence.
Pretty boy McMahon might of had some pompous flair about him, but he didn't inspire fear... bad place, fox can suck my nuts and stop ruining Marvel movies and society in general...

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Exactly. Even when they just focused on her being this crazy loon with power, they didn't even do an efficient job at that. The scale in that final destruction scene was incredibly anti-climactic. Seeing what they had planned in pre-productiton, the movie should have focused less on random mutants showing off superpowers if it would have meant that Jean actually came across as someone who had to be killed to be stopped.

She didn't have to be a cosmic entity, at least not in the way of the alien Phoenix Force, especially since that wasn't included in the original comic book telling anyway... but she could have posed more of a threat. I would have been happier if they had just stayed consistent with what was shown at the end of X2. After a three year wait, they completely ditched the massive Phoenix effect rising from Alkali Lake, and that alone would have provided for some great, large scale visuals.

Agreed 100% with both of you, the most they could get Pheonix to destroy was a tiny island? Poor, very poor, that is barely even a threat, have her destroying a city, THEN the audience would have felt fear for the protagonists.

And the omission of the Pheonix fire from X2 was just astonishingly stupid.

 

[Savage]

But the attitude and demeanour is what makes or breaks the character.
If you'd change your attitude and demeanour, you'd be a different person, so would I.
If your translating a character from the pages of a comic to the big screen, and this guy is the badass hardcore enough to have inspired Darth Vader, then for christ sakes, have him have some screen presence.
Pretty boy McMahon might of had some pompous flair about him, but he didn't inspire fear... bad place, fox can suck my nuts and stop ruining Marvel movies and society in general...

lol Society.

Well that is very true and I'm not arguing that Doom WASN'T different from his comic book counterpart. I'm arguing that this character doesn't even come close to the most butchered character. All of his motivations and characteristics were kept in. It was more or less the way that he presented these characteristics. For example Doom has always been arrogant but McMahon presented that arrogance in a different kind of way. That and they pretty much made him a wiseass.

To be honest, I'm not even hoping to change any minds because I already know how the fans feel about comic book movie changes and the Doom character. I just felt like expressing that it's possible to enjoy more than one interpretation of the same character. I don't think that these movies are RUINING anything. They aren't going door to door setting fire to comic book collections or taking over the comic book industry and changing the comic book characters and their histories (bad place, comic book companies have been doing a swell job of that on their own).

But hey, who am I? If Wolverine was turned into a wise-cracking metrosexual I'd be pretty pissed too.

 

[KangConquers]

Movie Doom IS from Latveria. The comics don't depict him with a thick accent (and it would be be obvious. For example all Germans seem to use Vs in place of Ws) and hey, he did go to school in America. Depending on how young he started he could have grown up with an American accent. Executive of a company? Why not? Doom's always been a smart guy.

In the comics he inherited the money after pretty much being unseen since College...Comic book Doom never had a job. Although this aspect is changed in the movie, Reed is still responsible for the accident that caused Doom to become Doom. That is what is fundamental. Their rivalry and Doom pretty much believing that it's everybody's fault but his own.

That said, things like "Marco Polo" and his general attitude were bit more...chipper. Less dignified than the doom that we're used to. That's the main difference here. His demeanor. They managed to keep his motivations intact but completely changed his demeanor and that bothered me...At first.

But hey, this is a thread pretty much made for complaining so I guess changing Doom's demeanor is a bigger deal than changing entire characters. Oh well. I know I'm in the minority by just liking these movies alone so carry on.

Doom was poorly done period. Even if he doesn't have a (eastern european accent, which he has in EVERY previous media adaptation I've seen), he should still have a commanding presence. The voice is so important to Doom. I've always imagined him as one of the best orators in the MU.

bad place look at Marvel Ultimate Alliance. That voice actor's job as Doom was far superior to the movie version. The writing sucked, the directing sucked. Everything they changed for the plot made Doom vastly inferior to his comic counterpart. I don't blame Julian McMahon. He did the best he could with such a wretched script, and a talentless director.

Typhoid Mary is a pimple on Doom's ash in terms of importance though. I don't give a **** if she was done poorly. I like Daredevil and all, but come on; how can you compare Typhoid Mary being butchered (or any Marvel villain being butchered outside of like...5-10) to Doom being butchered?

 

[Savage]

So this thread is about the biggest characters that were butchered or the characters that were butchered the most? I'm lost.

And you said it yourself. YOU'VE always imagined him as one of the best orators and OTHER media interpretations had him with a thick eastern european accent. Wolverine had an australian accent in his first animated appearance but that don't make it right. But hey, I agree that the character was changed a lot (his demeanor anyway. Everything else seemed pretty much intact) so I'm going to quit arguing. He was butchered, he was butchered. But I consider him butchered in the way that Blade and Spider-man were butchered. Different but enjoyable.

 

[the a1ant]

Galactus, imo, was fine. Going off by the commentary Tim Story gave, I can see why they didn't show G in his full glory. They at least alluded to him being inside the big cloud. Now if they butcher him in the SS movie, then they'll be at fault.

Doom was completely butchered.

Storm was butchered and her entire backstory/history was screwed with (in X2 and X3 moreso than in X1, imo).

Rogue was a boring character, but they pulled how she acted from before she met Ms. Marvel, and gained her powers, so I'll even let that slide. I think if Singer had directed X3, then her character would've gotten a bit more confident and have more attitude. It seems like he was slowly building up to that.

Elektra in DD actually wasn't that bad for what it was. Her spin-off film is another story though