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Discussion in 'Wonder Woman' started by Supernature, Jun 2, 2017.
Riiiiight. Max Lord. Because WB wants another neck snap controversy.
Did it hurt their money though? No. Plus WW is known to kill.
Regarding the dead gods, I could see a sequel/threequel involving the gods (and perhaps some other dead characters) escaping Hades.
And perhaps another movie could deal with Circe and Cheetah.
CBM movie villains have to keep going up the ladder correct? Then what WW villain is stronger than Ares?
Based on the 2 min Google search I did I vote Veronica. I'm team Medusa so I don't want her.
There really isn't a reason it has to be that way though. Nobody would dispute that Lex Luthor is Superman's arch nemesis, and yet Superman has plenty of bigger threats in his rogues gallery. Similarly, Ra's al Ghul and his network is a far bigger global threat than the Joker, but no way does Ra's eclipse the Joker.
Cheetah and Circe, and maybe Veronica Cale, being mortals or closer to it allows for them to be developed better as characters with a personal connection to Diana. It's something that is difficult (and not entirely necessary) to do with Ares.
I voted for Circe simply because of her interesting power set and the fact that I think you can tell a good story with her.
Cheetah is good pick as well but I feel you should build her up first. I think starting her out as one of Diana's closest allies who eventually is corrupted by her own desire to be like Wonder Woman is good story to tell. Introduce her in the sequel but have her become Cheetah in the third film.
I also wouldn't be opposed to Ares returning or more evil gods (Hades, Poseidon, Apollo) plus mythological creatures (ie Medusa, Cerebus). The sky is the limit honestly.
I could see Barbara and Diana having a friendly relationship similar to Octavius and Peter in Spider-Man 2 where it starts off friendly but then Barbara turns into the Cheetah either through Circe or another entity forcing Diana to fight her.
Superman started out with Lex in the first movie and a gang of Kryptonians in his second. MoS had a gang of Kryptonians and BvS had Doomsday. Ironman had a human with one armored suit, Ironman 2 had an army of iron suited people to fight. Thor's opponents also are getting stronger each movie. Nolan's Batman had League of Shadows, then Joker, then Bane... If these movies want to bring action and appeal to the general audience with action and spectacle fights , which DC seems to love, then you have to keep raising the bar on villains.
With that being said I like Veronica as story based villain but there probably won't be a good spectacle like with Ares.
To be fair, the big-picture stakes were certainly higher in Batman Begins than they were in TDK. Ra's al Ghul was trying to commit genocide against an entire city. The Joker was a terrorist who tried to take control of Gotham's underworld. The Joker's plans weren't nearly to scale with Ra's al Ghul's, but the stakes in TDK were certainly more personal. That's what a villain like Cheetah would bring to Wonder Woman. The middle chapter is a great time to present the hero with an antagonist that truly challenges who they are. A villain that is the antithesis. The yang to the yin.
Besides, going bigger for the sake of going bigger usually doesn't work out very well. Do what's best in servicing the hero's arc.
The more I think about it the more I feel TDK is almost the perfect format to use for Cheetah.
Cheetah as a tragic figure like Harvey/Two Face would work well.
I could see that working.
You could easily bring Barbara in as a a friend to Diana Prince, and tie it into her civilian job as a curator. Have Barbara come across the artifact that would turn her into an immortal cheetah goddess but it doesn't go to plan. It'd create a very interesting dynamic since Diana wouldn't want to kill her, but to try and save. You could have the power of Cheetah increase over time to be one of the conflicts to go against since Diana wouldn't want to hurt a friend but she might have to.
"Dont kill if you can wound, dont wound if you can subdue, dont subdue if you can pacify, and dont raise your hand at all until youve first extended it."
Damn, that's the type of story where she'd have to kill her at the end.
Getting very excited at the potential for Cheetah from discussing all of this.
Haven't been this pumped to talk about a sequel in a long time.
That's the sort of thing that can make a great story. Emotional stakes are key. I really need Cheetah to be the front and centre villain for the sequel.
Totally agree with you. Going bigger is the worst option for the sequel. Instead, you have to make it more personal.
I can almost imagine a scene at the end after all options trying to reverse the curse on her have been exhausted where WW has lassoed and the last piece of Minervas humanity comes through and says something like 'you have to do it', and WW grappling with the idea of having to do something she doesn't want to. I'm not big on the idea of WW and Cheetah being friends prior to her becoming a villain but I gotta admit that could work for film.
What they did with the characters in Rebirth would be very similar to how I'd want to see it on the big screen.
I was actually going to bring this up myself. Ra's has a global reach and grander plans than The Joker did. And he wanted to KILL everyone in Gotham, whereas Joker simply wanted to play sadistic games with them. Heck even Bane and Talia in TDKR technically were "bigger" in scale/goals than Joker was. And yet none of those other three overshadowed him.
A lot of Captain America fans would argue that the climax to CW was better than the other two film's climaxes. And yet it was much smaller in scale (it wasn't a "save the world" final battle, it was three guys fighting in a bunker in Siberia, and a villain who had a very specific personal revenge motivations against the Avengers themselves), but it was more emotional/bitter.
If you do a somewhat smaller in scale, but perhaps more personal/emotional story in a sequel, then it can work out just as well, if not more so (provided that you tell it WELL of course). And it's been done before.
And with WW, if you make Barbara Diana's friend first (or even her new LI maybe), then there's an extra layer of tragedy and drama built into that conflict.
That's true, but I would argue that the Joker felt like he represented something much more essential than simply having some villainous plans in Gotham.
As an agent of chaos, and the evil Yin to Batman's Yang, he rose above whatever violence and gangster-related stuff his villainy may have been anchored in.
I actually think Ra's al Ghul could have had a similar mystique, in the sense of representing something essential (not the same thing as the Joker, but some evil on a grand scale that Batman must confront), but the Nolan films either wasted him, or used him for another purpose, depending on how you look at it.
Anyway, I think some good points have been made, and I certainly hope the villain in the sequel challenges Diana in some essential way.
I kind of just want the female Kratos.
What about Fury?
I'm more referring to the DCAU JL Season 1 e 14-15.
Could provide a very grounded heart felt approach, as well opportunity to show more scenes of Themyscira.
That's the overall synopsis, but you could still have the likes of Cheetah, etc, and doesn't really have to go into god mode, plus I think having someone as Max Lord as a villain to the villain would be really cool.
The DCAU Fury is a straw feminist right out of a Rush Limbaugh fantasy, so I'd rather not.
Too many people would remember Maxwell Lord from Supergirl. And if he were entirely different people would be even more confused. Doesn't matter some people thought of him as a poor man's Lex Luthor.
He is still mostly associated with Supergirl by people that don't read the comic books. Besides, even if he didn't have that baggage, he's not even a Wonder Woman specific villain. If they are going to spend
the time and money on a villain, I'd rather it be someone not seen live action before that is more closely associated with Wonder Woman. If I were to create a list of 50 villains to take on Wonder Woman,
he'd be near the bottom of the list.
Indeed. Besides, the issue with Superman and Batman hasn't been "they kill", its been "they kill in ways that are poorly written and run contrary to the core of the character". I mean, there would still be grumbling about it, but it'd be a *lot* less divisive if, say, MoS framed the death of Zod more carefully, and BvS portrayed Batman as less psychopathic.
In 'Wonder Woman', she used deadly force in circumstances that were contextually appropriate, and which fit with the character portrayal ( without needing her to be a psychopath ). So, no big deal.