Movie Studios Are Forcing Hollywood to Abandon 35mm Film

It's inevitable that digital will replace 35mm, but will they pass the savings on to us?

:lmao:

What a stupid question.
 
Some excellent posts:

Shortly before Christmas, director Edgar Wright received an email inviting him to a private screening of the first six minutes of Christopher Nolan's new Batman movie, The Dark Knight Rises. Walking into Universal CityWalk's IMAX theater, Wright recognized many of the most prominent filmmakers in America — Michael Bay, Bryan Singer, Jon Favreau, Eli Roth, Duncan Jones, Stephen Daldry. If a bomb had gone off in the building, he thought, it would have taken out half of the Directors Guild of America.

"It was a surreal experience because it felt like we were all going to get whacked," Wright recalls.

As the directors settled into their seats, Nolan addressed them with words ripped from the plot of an old Batman serial.

"I have an ulterior motive for bringing you here," the British director announced.

And then he made a plea for 35mm film.

Nolan pointed out that The Dark Knight Rises was made on celluloid. That he is committed to shooting on film, and wants to continue doing so. But, he warned, 35mm will be stamped out by tne studios unless people — people like them — insist otherwise.

Digital cameras can shoot far longer, much to the dismay of actors like Robert Downey Jr. — who, rumor has it, protests by leaving bottles of urine on set.

If that's true? RDJ gets even more awesome by the second lol.
 
I haven't read the article. Just the quotes posted here about how it's harder to save digital film because of the constant changes in technology

http://badassdigest.com/2012/04/12/the-importance-of-being-35mm/

Published April 12, 2012 by Devin Faraci
The Importance Of Being 35mm

An in-depth article explains why you should care about the death of 35mm.

35mm__span.jpg

Pixar stored the Toy Story 2 files on a Linux machine. One afternoon, someone accidentally hit the delete key sequence on the drive. The movie started disappearing. First Woody's hat went. Then his boots. Then his body. Then entire scenes.
Imagine the horror: 20 people's work for two years, erased in 20 seconds. Animators were able to reconstitute the missing elements purely by chance: Pixar's visual arts director had just had a baby, and she'd brought a copy of the movie — the only remaining copy — with her to work on at home.
There's been a lot of talk about the changeover from film to digital in the world of filmmaking and film preservation. Many people have ignored the concerns of the 35mm fans, likening us to hipsters who still want to listen to everything on vinyl. But the realities are far more complex; while there is an aspect of the 35mm fanbase that simply prefers the analog warmth of the format, the digital format is dangerous to anyone with an interest in film beyond what's opening this weekend.

The above quote is an excerpt from a long article in the new LA Weekly that you must read. The article sort of buries the most important stuff about the danger of digital many pages in, well past when casual readers (and your average digital fan) will have stopped reading.

Our film history has always been in danger. It's estimated that we only have about 25% of all silent films ever made - this means that three quarters of all silent films have disappeared forever. You may not be a silent film person, but it should be obvious to you why this is alarming. The only reason we have many films from the sound era is because independent archivists stepped in when studios, looking to make space for new movies, tried to get rid of their original negatives. The studios, having already made inferior copies of those negatives, figured they could dump them. Gone With The Wind and The Wizard of Oz are among the movies that might have been lost.

You might think that digital preservation is better than physical preservation. That turns out to be not the case AT ALL. From the article:
The Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences recently released a study, "The Digital Dilemma." It discovered that it's actually 11 times more expensive to preserve a 4K digital master than film.
Moreover, most filmmakers surveyed for the study were not aware of how truly perishable digital content is. Digital technology makes it easy to create movies, the academy concluded, but the resulting data is much harder to preserve.
Meanwhile, all film needs is a cold, dry place to spend eternity. Under these conditions, archivists say, a black-and-white print on polyester-based film stock can last 1,000 years.
The problems with digital storage are legion - going back to Pixar, they discovered that 20% of the original Toy Story files were corrupted - but it's the speed of technological change that really makes digital storage an issue.
And even after the films are converted to digital, Jan-Christopher Horak, director of the UCLA Film & Television Archive, calls the challenges of preserving them "monumental." Digital is lousy for long-term storage.

The main problem is format obsolescence. File formats can go obsolete in a matter of months. On this subject, Horak's every sentence requires an exclamation mark. "In the last 10 years of digitality, we've gone through 20 formats!" he says. "Every 18 months we're getting a new format!"
So every two years, data must be transferred, or "migrated," to a new device. If that doesn't happen, the data may never being accessible again. Technology can advance too far ahead.
Migration, alas, is a laborious process. Professional labs have automated the process of migrating data from one storage tape to another with robots that shuttle tapes into drives. But a big collection requires a big robot. Then you need someone to maintain the robot.
There are films that never made it from celluloid to VHS. And then there are films that never made it to DVD. Even fewer will make it to Blu. And while there may be more that make it to digital - the demand for content to fill cable channels and streaming services is enormous - many, many movies will never make it to that next step. And then even when they do, they may not make it to the next file format, since the costs of migrating are too high.

As the technology advances it leaves movies littering the sides of the road.

This is an interconnected system. Physical media remains the best way to store films, but the fact that just about NOBODY is using film anymore means that Eastman Kodak, the main source for film stock, is going bankrupt. The push to digital is so strong that 35mm will likely be wiped out before anyone has time to really consider whether that's a good thing.

You should read the entire article, because there's a lot more to the argument. I've just highlighted the film preservation aspects. We could argue all day about how the unwieldiness of film makes for better filmmakers, or how the warmth of 35mm makes for a better viewing experience. But what can't be argued is that the switch to digital is going to have a very huge, very negative impact on our film history.
 
big good directors will still be able to use film. if thats their choice. small director will be forced to use digital. like with 3D. how is this news?
 
a blogger said it best that eventually we will all go digital. But he made the point that currently if you want to use a camera you do specifically for its unique look. If you shoot with Alexa digital, you'll get an Alexa beauty; if you shoot with Red Epic, you'll get a Red kind of beauty. All these formats have different looks so you have to know how to shoot them.

Eventually digital can duplicate film perfectly but not yet. Until then, keep film in or at least, improve digital tech faster.
 
Last edited:
I have nothing against digital and think it's great for many things, but damn it would be a shame if film one day went out completely. Both techniques should be able to co-exist I think.
 
I prefer 35mm, but video is cheaper and easier to use. So, this really is not a surprise.
 
However a filmmaker wants to make his film, let him. I wouldn't want them to be forced out of 35mm so fast though. That's a shame. I'm kind of sick of positioning these things into film vs digital. It shouldn't be like that.
 
I think film will always have a place because with tech, everything is circular. Look at the rise of vinyl right now. It is causing NEW companies to create records.
 
big good directors will still be able to use film. if thats their choice. small director will be forced to use digital. like with 3D. how is this news?

Because that doesn't make it right.
 
Like what I said before, with the various digital cameras, like the Alexa and Red, they can create beautiful images, but a different kind of beautiful than film itself. So that's why I think these companies need to speed up their development and make a digital camera that can totally 100% duplicate film cameras. But I don't know why they're having such a hard time with that notion.
 
^ maybe it's not as easy as we'd like to think it is.
 
Because that doesn't make it right.
but those small directors were hired to be dog on a leash. they were hird to do what the studio and producers tell them. they are there for the paycheck and for that tehy film very fast a bad movie. if they were hird for that why shouldnt studios tell them what camera to use? its the studios money and the digital is cheaper. a lot of times those directors have no control who will be cast. they are there on the set to direct the movie.

ok i am sorry i am talking only for the expensive movies. for small indie movies are different. since there directors are not hired by the studio.
 
I cant imagine the studios telling the bigger directors to use digital if they dont want to.
Also a lot of directors are film buffs or at least love movies and I cant imagine film ever be stamped out.
Arent there digital cameras that can replicate film if not come really close to it?
 
I cant imagine the studios telling the bigger directors to use digital if they dont want to.
Also a lot of directors are film buffs or at least love movies and I cant imagine film ever be stamped out.
Arent there digital cameras that can replicate film if not come really close to it?

I pointed out that, with digital cameras a director will use a certain brand based on what style they're going for. So a Red Epic or Alexa have their own kind of beauty which you cannot really describe. But no, as of right now there are no digital cameras that can replicate film 100% but it's close.
 
Well with film and digital isnt it kinda of like the argument of traditonal animation(hand drawn) vs just straight up useing computers and what not?

Drive im pretty sure was used on Red Epic and it looked really nice.
 
Well with film and digital isnt it kinda of like the argument of traditonal animation(hand drawn) vs just straight up useing computers and what not?

Drive im pretty sure was used on Red Epic and it looked really nice.

Yeah. It's also like how many comic book artist still draw and color traditionally (and use Photoshop to enhance it) because you can still tell if it's done strictly via computer.

I was surprised to hear that Drive was shot digitally after the fact. But when I rewatched it, that's when I could kinda tell. Kinda like how the colors and bled look I guess...hard to describe..But most casual film watcher wouldn't notice though.
 
I wonder if this new digital era will 100 years for now be seen like the lost era of tv in the 50's and early 60's?

Where a lot of tv shows were shot in a way where they were rarely saved to tape and were simply erased. With everything going digital i can see how preservation may be difficult for future generations.

p.s as of now digital is not up to the standard of 35mm in terms of quality. Most people can't tell much of a difference but when you see examples side by side you can. However digital will likely catch up at some point.
 
Last edited:
I covered this when the news broke at the NATO conference, in 2011.

[FONT=&quot]Art imitates life. Or, is it the other way around? In one of the classic episodes of “The Twilight Zone,” Burgess Meredith portrays a librarian in a totalitarian state that tries him for “being obsolete.” In the end, he prevails against his prosecutors. Rod Serling, creator and host of the show, concludes the affair by informing the audience that any state judging its citizens as obsolete has become obsolete itself. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This episode, which was aired in 1961, surfaced as a parallel in a conversation I had with William Sanders (a theater owner in Alabama) almost perfectly. Cinema, as audiences know it, is in the middle of a conversion, and the role of the individual in this system – the projectionist – will be become obsolete by 2013. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]These disquieting parallels were reached at Cinemacon this year, on March 28-31, in Caesar’s Palace, Las Vegas. Cinemacon, according to its website is “The largest and most important gathering of movie theater owners from around the world.” Chief of the Motion Picture Association of America Christopher Dodd and John Fithian, CEO of NATO, made an announcement that cinemas have to be operating on digital technology by 2013 or they “
will become obsolete.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In case you do not understand the implications of this maneuver, I will briefly compare and contrast the two theater setups before I elaborate on the ramifications. Non-digital cinema, which operates using 35mm film stock, costs around film studios around $1,000 per print. Studios typically make a certain number of prints—one number I learned while working at the Clifton 5 was 3000 for blockbuster releases— and then ships them around the country from theater-to-theater. Depending on the number of prints made, theaters enter a draw not unlike the one JC students experience for rooms during the next year: each theater has a priority number and competes for a print of a film. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When it receives a film, depending on variables such as the number of prints made and the film’s release window, theaters can hold them from a minimum of two weeks to several. Now, for non-chain theaters like the Clifton, this dictates that the releases they receive are the typical blockbuster or large-produced faire; don’t expect them to receive a print of an independent release like “Trick ‘r Treat.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Along with the distribution, smaller theaters have to also consider what sells in the area. Another fact I gleaned while working at the Clifton was that fantasy blockbusters such as “Harry Potter” sold out screenings as fast as the “Friday the 13th” reboot in Huntingdon.
Non-digital theaters receive the films in canisters (the Clifton receives theirs on Thursdays), and have to assemble the prints themselves. The process of assembling physical prints, which come in a couple reels, is time-consuming, as there is another variable that goes into consideration: advertisements. During the course of the business year, theaters receive trailers for upcoming releases and determine which ones to splice with the newly arrived features, as well as paid-business commercials. Ever notice how there are a lot of cellular phone advertisements or military recruiting videos? The respective organizations pay theaters to air them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Digital cinema, on the other hand, is a reversal of this setup. Digital copies cost around $1-200 dollars to create, according to an LA Times article. This dictates the creation of more prints. Digital films arrive by satellite transmission, and can take anywhere from 60-80 gigabytes of space on external hard drives, while 3D and Dbox releases take up 120-130. Like computer programs, digital films require activation of an embedded key to be utilized. The key is active during the film’s allotted time in the theater, and is a multiple-part sequence made up of the serial numbers of the projector, processor, and the code of the film.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Digital cinema comes with numerous benefits for theater and studio owners. First, it cuts down on piracy, as the aforementioned key cannot be activated until the film’s scheduled window of release, ensuring that there are no leaks, and that the film can be viewed only by those authorized to do so. Also, owners have the option of having the download, management, projection, as well as selling of tickets done for them, if they invest in a Library Media Server in conjunction with a POS ticketing program. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And last, but not least, digital cinema also offers advanced closed captioning and audio services for individuals who have might be visually or hearing impaired, blind or deaf. Overall, while the cost for the conversion is around $65,000 per screen, there is money available for them, if they apply through proper channels. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But digital cinemas lose the nostalgia and tradition of 115 years. Returning to “The Twilight Zone” comparison, Burgess Meredith’s character was able to triumph against the institution that deemed him to be obsolete. But, that required someone to stand rise up against the oppressors, and thus far in the cinematic world, no one has.[/FONT]

http://juniatian.com/2011/04/28/reel-time-4/
 
I wonder if this new digital era will 100 years for now be seen like the lost era of tv in the 50's and early 60's?

Where a lot of tv shows were shot in a way where they were rarely saved to tape and were simply erased. With everything going digital i can see how preservation may be difficult for future generations.

p.s as of now digital is not up to the standard of 35mm in terms of quality. Most people can't tell much of a difference but when you see examples side by side you can. However digital will likely catch up at some point.
is there any good site where they have good comparison?
 
This is like the Vinyl vs Compact Disc wars all over again.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"