Muslim American-Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happines

[raybia]

The recent controversy of whether or not Obama was Muslim rubbed me the wrong way as being a Muslim and being American are not compatible.

I offer these 3 of 6 parts by Faheem Shuiabe, a student of Imam W. Deen Mohammed, leader of the largest Muslim community in America.


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[Superman4ever]

Raybia thank you for this. The controversy upset me too. The fact that the right was using his middle name as a scare tactic sickened me. Anyways, do you have a youtube account I have many inspirational videos that I think could cheer you up.

I'll PM you later if you want them!

 

[Warhammer]

Great thread.

I look at it this way. Even if Obama was a Muslim, what does that have to do with how he will run the country? He would be President to the best of his ability, regardless of religion. People who discriminate against Muslims in this country are ignorant and bigoted. My father is a Muslim, and that has inspired me to accept and embrace people of all religions.

 

[Superman4ever]

Great thread.

I look at it this way. Even if Obama was a Muslim, what does that have to do with how he will run the country? He would be President to the best of his ability, regardless of religion. People who discriminate against Muslims in this country are ignorant and bigoted. My father is a Muslim, and that has inspired me to accept and embrace people of all religions.

What really saddens me is that the media keeps bombarding us with images of these horrible, and indefensible, extremist acts and it's being manipulated as if the religion advocates these acts.

It really hurts when the Right uses Obama's middle name as a scare tactic. It continues this circle of ignorance and hate.


Actually, this link will take you to a free online documentary page. If you go under the religion tab there are some very informative documentaries about Islam that I think some people might enjoy.

 

[Warhammer]

What really saddens me is that the media keeps bombarding us with images of these horrible, and indefensible, extremist acts and it's being manipulated as if the religion advocates these acts.

It really hurts when the Right uses Obama's middle name as a scare tactic. It continues this circle of ignorance and hate.


Actually, this link will take you to a free online documentary page. If you go under the religion tab there are some very informative documentaries about Islam that I think some people might enjoy.

Thanks for the link. I know what you mean. The media does not tell what it really is. Those people are crazy people. They just happen to be Muslims. That doesn't mean that Allah spoke to them and told them to do it. The media disgusts me sometimes.

 

[MetalGear7]

Now this muslim feels bad for never using his middle name ali....

 

[terry78]

People hear the word Muslim nowadays and the knee jerk reactions run rampant. Mindless sheep grazing on the lawn of fear mongering.

 

[raybia]

Now this muslim feels bad for never using his middle name ali....

You shouldn't. The quality of your character is much more important.

 

[BatSpider]

That is awesome Raybia

 

[MetalGear7]

well I don't pray like I should, and I eat fast food and make funny racist jokes, but I like to think of myself as believing in Allah and therefore as long as I dont murder anyone I'm going straight to Heaven, what you think raybia

 

[BatSpider]

well I don't pray like I should, and I eat fast food and make funny racist jokes, but I like to think of myself as believing in Allah and therefore as long as I dont murder anyone I'm going straight to Heaven, what you think raybia

I have studied Islam and I don't think that's how it should be.

You should do everything in your power to be true to your god and shread your word of Islam

 

[Backdrifter]

Certainly there are a lot of nice and peaceful Muslims out there. But, you can not ignore the very dark side of the religion. The Qur'an commands apostates (people who have left their faith) to be put to death. In many middle eastern countries these kinds of people in addition to homosexuals and other law breakers are killed in public executions.

Unfortunately, the extremist version of Islam is quickly taking hold of the entire middle east region. The president of Iran is the poster child for state sponsored terrorism. Iran has been found to financially supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.

The simple fact is that despite how peaceful people would like Islam to seem, its laws and rules are rather extreme, especially in regards to the way it treats women.

You can say all you want about Christians and all the things they did, and I will be the first to agree with you, they were awful. But, none of it lines up with Christ's teachings and his life. Jesus' message was that of love,peace and the worship of God. He never once ordered anyone to put killed for turning away from God. In fact, he described how much it pains the Lord to see one of his sheep wander away from the flock. He never lead a political revolution. He came humbly, lived a perfect life free of sin, took on the sins of mankind and died for us so that we may spend eternity with Him free of pain and suffering.

CS Lewis says it better than I can"

" But unfortunately we now need God's help in order to do something which God, in His own nature, never does at all--to surrender, to suffer, to submit, to die. Nothing in God's nature corresponds to this process at all. So that the one road for which we now need God's leadership most of all is a road God, in His own nature, has never walked. God can share only what He has; this thing, in His own nature, He has not.

But supposing God became a man--suppose our human nature which can suffer and die was amalgamated with God's nature in one person--then that person could help us. He could surrender His will, and suffer and die, because He was man; and He could do it perfectly because He was God. You and I can go through this process only if God does it in us; but God can do it only if He becomes man. Our attempts at this dying will succeed only if we men share in God's dying, just as our thinking can succeed only because it is a drop out of the ocean of His intelligence: but we cannot share God's dying unless God dies; and He cannot die except by being a man. That is the sense in which He pays our debt, and suffers for us what He Himself need not suffer at all."

 

[MetalGear7]

Certainly there are a lot of nice and peaceful Muslims out there. But, you can not ignore the very dark side of the religion. The Qur'an commands apostates (people who have left their faith) to be put to death. In many middle eastern countries these kinds of people in addition to homosexuals and other law breakers are killed in public executions.

Unfortunately, the extremist version of Islam is quickly taking hold of the entire middle east region. The president of Iran is the poster child for state sponsored terrorism. Iran has been found to financially supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.

The simple fact is that despite how peaceful people would like Islam to seem, its laws and rules are rather extreme, especially in regards to the way it treats women.

You can say all you want about Christians and all the things they did, and I will be the first to agree with you, they were awful. But, none of it lines up with Christ's teachings and his life. Jesus' message was that of love,peace and the worship of God. He never once ordered anyone to put killed for turning away from God. In fact, he described how much it pains the Lord to see one of his sheep wander away from the flock. He never lead a political revolution. He came humbly, lived a perfect life free of sin, took on the sins of mankind and died for us so that we may spend eternity with Him free of pain and suffering.

CS Lewis says it better than I can"

" But unfortunately we now need God's help in order to do something which God, in His own nature, never does at all--to surrender, to suffer, to submit, to die. Nothing in God's nature corresponds to this process at all. So that the one road for which we now need God's leadership most of all is a road God, in His own nature, has never walked. God can share only what He has; this thing, in His own nature, He has not.

But supposing God became a man--suppose our human nature which can suffer and die was amalgamated with God's nature in one person--then that person could help us. He could surrender His will, and suffer and die, because He was man; and He could do it perfectly because He was God. You and I can go through this process only if God does it in us; but God can do it only if He becomes man. Our attempts at this dying will succeed only if we men share in God's dying, just as our thinking can succeed only because it is a drop out of the ocean of His intelligence: but we cannot share God's dying unless God dies; and He cannot die except by being a man. That is the sense in which He pays our debt, and suffers for us what He Himself need not suffer at all."

How do we treat our woman?

 

[raybia]

well I don't pray like I should, and I eat fast food and make funny racist jokes, but I like to think of myself as believing in Allah and therefore as long as I dont murder anyone I'm going straight to Heaven, what you think raybia

I believe that our lives are the classroom and the Quran is our teacher.

The infant doesn’t condemn itself in its struggle to first crawl, stand and then walk.

No how many times it falls down, it keeps getting up until it has learned how to walk. Before you know it, the infant has grown up and is now able to stand on its own and walk without little effort. It can even run.

Well we are, metaphorically speaking, infants in this world, whether we are 1 or 81, so we shouldn’t give up when we fall.

We should constantly aim to grow and develop our cognitive (intellectual) and spiritual selves along with our physical growth.

So keep striving and don’t worry about your imperfections, because we all have them.

Just focus on becoming the best person you can be.

Heaven is the end goal but we should find heaven in the journey to get there.

In other words heaven is a state of being that can be achieved in this world. We call it happiness.

The journey is what brings us happiness not the destination

 

[SuperFerret]

I believe that our lives are the classroom and the Quran is our teacher.

The infant doesn’t condemn itself in its struggle to first crawl, stand and then walk.

No how many times it falls down, it keeps getting up until it has learned how to walk. Before you know it, the infant has grown up and is now able to stand on its own and walk without little effort. It can even run.

Well we are, metaphorically speaking, infants in this world, whether we are 1 or 81, so we shouldn’t give up when we fall.

We should constantly aim to grow and develop our cognitive (intellectual) and spiritual selves along with our physical growth.

So keep striving and don’t worry about your imperfections, because we all have them.

Just focus on becoming the best person you can be.

Heaven is the end goal but we should find heaven in the journey to get there.
In other words heaven is a state of being that can be achieved in this world.

It's about the journey, not the destination.

You continually impress me with your wisdom, Raybia. Excellently said.

 

[raybia]

That is awesome Raybia

thanks!

 

[raybia]

I have studied Islam and I don't think that's how it should be.

You should do everything in your power to be true to your god and shread your word of Islam

Its all about sincerity and legitimate action in our struggle towards self development and improvement. The greatest struggle of life is from within.

 

[raybia]

Certainly there are a lot of nice and peaceful Muslims out there. But, you can not ignore the very dark side of the religion.


There is no dark side to Islam but there is a dark side of man.


The Qur'an commands apostates (people who have left their faith) to be put to death.

That is incorrect.

In many middle eastern countries these kinds of people in addition to homosexuals and other law breakers are killed in public executions.

True



The simple fact is that despite how peaceful people would like Islam to seem, its laws and rules are rather extreme, especially in regards to the way it treats women.

the interpretations of the quran used in these places are extreme.

You can say all you want about Christians and all the things they did, and I will be the first to agree with you, they were awful. But, none of it lines up with Christ's teachings and his life. Jesus' message was that of love,peace and the worship of God. He never once ordered anyone to put killed for turning away from God.

Neither did Mohammed.

 

[Superman4ever]

Certainly there are a lot of nice and peaceful Muslims out there. But, you can not ignore the very dark side of the religion. The Qur'an commands apostates (people who have left their faith) to be put to death. In many middle eastern countries these kinds of people in addition to homosexuals and other law breakers are killed in public executions.

UNTRUE! This is a lie. The Qur'an has NO verse that prescribes punishment for Apostasy (read below). Moreover, the man-made prescribed punishment granted by CORRUPT tyrannical EXTREMISTS is NOT the fault of the religion.

There is no single verse in the Qur'an that prescribes an earthly punishment for apostasy. Verses about apostasy in the Qur'an speak only about God's punishment of the apostate in the Hereafter. The following Qur'anic verses illustrate two examples:

[Your enemies will not cease to fight against you till they have turned you away from your faith, if they can. But if any of you should turn away from his/her faith and die as a denier [of the truth] – these it is whose works will bear no fruit in this world and in the life to come; and these it is who are destined for the fire, therein to abide.] (Al-Baqarah 2:217)6

[Behold, as for those who come to believe, and then deny the truth, and again come to believe, and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth — God will not forgive them, nor will guide them in any way.] (An-Nisaa' 4:137)

The silence of the Qur'an on any prescribed mandatory capital for apostasy is quite revealing. More revealing is the fact that there is overwhelming evidence in the Qur'an of freedom of conscious, belief, and worship. The following verses gives an example of this:

[And say [O Muhammad]: 'The truth [has now come] you're your Sustainer: let, then, him or her who wills, believe in it, and let him or her who wills, reject it.] (Al-Kahf 18:29)

[There shall be no coercion in matters of faith.] (Al-Baqarah 2:256)

[And so, [O Prophet,] exhort them; your task is only to exhort. You can not compel them [to believe].] (Al-Ghashiyah 88:21-22)

[Thus, [O Prophet,] if they argue with you, say, "I have surrendered my whole being unto God, and [so have] all who follow me' – and ask those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime, as well as the unlettered people, 'Have you [too] surrendered yourselves unto Him?' And if they surrender themselves unto Him, they are on the right path; but if they turn away – behold, your duty is no more than to deliver the message: for God sees all that is in [the hearts of] His creatures.] (Aal `Imran 3:20)

http://www.islamonline.net/English/contemporary/2006/04/article02.shtml

The Qur'an CLEARLY states that we are to avoid excessiveness.

Also an "Apostate" in the time of a prophet wasn't merely one who left his religion, that is another category (there are 14 different types of "apostates") he was, more importantly, someone who fought against the community and attempted to kill other Muslims. They specifically fought against the Muslims and the Prophet. There goal was to destroy the community. Think of it as treason.

Moreover, jurisprudence in Islam states that Apostates (those who fought/killed Muslim) are to be tried by the state and are ONLY punishable by death if there is sufficient evidence proving that he:

the cause permitting the legal killing of a disbeliever is his fighting and hostility against Muslims and attempting to lure them away from their religion. In addition, many Qur'anic verses clearly renounce compulsion in religion.

Apostates, who leave the religion by there own accord (i.e. and are not killing Muslims) are "blameless" and should chose their own path.

Unfortunately, the extremist version of Islam is quickly taking hold of the entire middle east region. The president of Iran is the poster child for state sponsored terrorism. Iran has been found to financially supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.

You're basing the WHOLE community. All 1.3 billion of us on a few thousand radicals? Does Western policy have any role to play in this? Supporting tyrants who gave us cheap oil clearly is Islam's fault, correct?

The simple fact is that despite how peaceful people would like Islam to seem, its laws and rules are rather extreme, especially in regards to the way it treats women.

Again, is there any proof that Islam advocates extremism against women? No. One, you have cultural rituals that Islam clearly forbids and demolished from it's inception. Moreover, don't confuse corrupt bureaucrats with the religion. The corruption of man is not the fault of the religion.

 

[raybia]

UNTRUE! This is a lie. The Qur'an has NO verse that prescribes punishment for Apostasy (read below). Moreover, the man-made prescribed punishment granted by CORRUPT tyrannical EXTREMISTS is NOT the fault of the religion.



The silence of the Qur'an on any prescribed mandatory capital for apostasy is quite revealing. More revealing is the fact that there is overwhelming evidence in the Qur'an of freedom of conscious, belief, and worship. The following verses gives an example of this:

[And say [O Muhammad]: 'The truth [has now come] you're your Sustainer: let, then, him or her who wills, believe in it, and let him or her who wills, reject it.] (Al-Kahf 18:29)

[There shall be no coercion in matters of faith.] (Al-Baqarah 2:256)

[And so, [O Prophet,] exhort them; your task is only to exhort. You can not compel them [to believe].] (Al-Ghashiyah 88:21-22)

[Thus, [O Prophet,] if they argue with you, say, "I have surrendered my whole being unto God, and [so have] all who follow me' – and ask those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime, as well as the unlettered people, 'Have you [too] surrendered yourselves unto Him?' And if they surrender themselves unto Him, they are on the right path; but if they turn away – behold, your duty is no more than to deliver the message: for God sees all that is in [the hearts of] His creatures.] (Aal `Imran 3:20)

http://www.islamonline.net/English/contemporary/2006/04/article02.shtml

The Qur'an CLEARLY states that we are to avoid excessiveness.

Also an "Apostate" in the time of a prophet wasn't merely one who left his religion, that is another category (there are 14 different types of "apostates") he was, more importantly, someone who fought against the community and attempted to kill other Muslims. They specifically fought against the Muslims and the Prophet. There goal was to destroy the community. Think of it as treason.

Moreover, jurisprudence in Islam states that Apostates (those who fought/killed Muslim) are to be tried by the state and are ONLY punishable by death if there is sufficient evidence proving that he:




Apostates, who leave the religion by there own accord (i.e. and are not killing Muslims) are "blameless" and should chose their own path.



You're basing the WHOLE community. All 1.3 billion of us on a few thousand radicals? Does Western policy have any role to play in this? Supporting tyrants who gave us cheap oil clearly is Islam's fault, correct?



Again, is there any proof that Islam advocates extremism against women? No. One, you have cultural rituals that Islam clearly forbids and demolished from it's inception. Moreover, don't confuse corrupt bureaucrats with the religion. The corruption of man is not the fault of the religion.

good job!

 

[Superman4ever]

well I don't pray like I should, and I eat fast food and make funny racist jokes, but I like to think of myself as believing in Allah and therefore as long as I dont murder anyone I'm going straight to Heaven, what you think raybia

Just to point out I completely agree with Raybia on this.

You don't pray is something that you have to rectify when you are good and ready, but again that is your choice.

Fast food's not that big of a deal. If you're concerned about the food not being Halal: You are allowed to say, "In the name of G-d Most gracious, most merciful" before you eat. If it bothers you then simply don't eat fast food. They employ horrific animal cruelty measures anyway, but that's another topic of concern.

However, to simply say that as long as you don't kill a person you're going to go to heaven is unfair. One, only Allah can make judgments (about anything). Two, there are certain codes of morality, conduct and ethics that you as a Muslim should follow. Remember that even though Allah is all merciful and ever loving he is also just. You're NOT going to go to hell for eating at McDonalds but cheating or harming a fellow human being is forbidden. Cheating on a test is forbidden (I don't think you'd go to hell for that either, but wrong is wrong).

A Muslim has to better himself/herself so that he/she can better his/her community and, in turn, society.

 

[raybia]

You don't pray is something that you have to rectify when you are good and ready, but again that is your choice.

Fast food's not that big of a deal. If you're concerned about the food not being Halal: You are allowed to say, "In the name of G-d Most gracious, most merciful" before you eat. If it bothers you then simply don't eat fast food. They employ horrific animal cruelty measures anyway, but that's another topic of concern.

However, to simply say that as long as you don't kill a person you're going to go to heaven is unfair. One, only Allah can make judgments (about anything). Two, there are certain codes of morality, conduct and ethics that you as a Muslim should follow. Remember that even though Allah is all merciful and ever loving he is also just. You're NOT going to go to hell for eating at McDonalds but cheating or harming a fellow human being is forbidden. Cheating on a test is forbidden (I don't think you'd go to hell for that either, but wrong is wrong).

A Muslim has to better himself/herself so that he/she can better his/her community and, in turn, society.

Real good and sound advise.

Some Muslims are concerned about going to hell after they die but I think we should be more concerned about going to hell while we are alive.

G-d knows I've been there a time or two (or three)

 

[BatSpider]

I am liking this Raybia and Superman4ever

 

[raybia]

I am liking this Raybia and Superman4ever

superman4ever is the man!

If you want to know where I get most of my understanding of the quran then just P.M. me.

 

[raybia]

Raybia thank you for this. The controversy upset me too. The fact that the right was using his middle name as a scare tactic sickened me. Anyways, do you have a youtube account I have many inspirational videos that I think could cheer you up.

I'll PM you later if you want them!

I don't have a youtube account but if you could PM me the links I would appreciate it!