My Lai MKII

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I may have missed this cos I were in another country when it was apparently reported by Time magazine: but its astounding, IF true.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5033648.stm

Haditha is an agricultural community of about 90,000 inhabitants on the banks of the Euphrates north-west of Baghdad.
It lies in the huge western province of Anbar, which has been the heartland of the insurgency since US troops led the invasion of Iraq to overthrow Saddam Hussein in 2003.

It is a dangerous place for the US marines who control this part of Iraq and for the inhabitants, caught between insurgents and American troops.

On the morning of 19 November 2005, the

Subhani neighbourhood was the scene of an event that has become like the pulse of the insurgency - a roadside bomb targeting a US military patrol.

It killed 20-year-old Lance Corp Miguel (TJ) Terrazas, driving one of four humvee vehicles in the patrol, and injured two other marines.


A simple US military statement hinted at the bloody chain of events which the attack started - though subsequent scrutiny showed it to be far from the truth.

It said: "A US marine and 15 civilians were killed yesterday from the blast of a roadside bomb in Haditha.

"Immediately following the bombing, gunmen attacked the convoy with small arms fire. Iraqi army soldiers and marines returned fire, killing eight insurgents and wounding another."

Video footage

The tragedy of Haditha may have been left at that - just another statistic of "war-torn" Iraq, a place too dangerous to be reported properly by journalists, where openness is not in the interests of political and military circles, and the sheer scale of death numbs the senses.

However, a day after the incident, local journalist Taher Thabet got his video camera out and filmed scenes that - whatever they were - were not the aftermath of a roadside bomb.

The bodies of women and children, still in their nightclothes; interior walls and ceilings peppered with bullet holes; bloodstains on the floor.

Mr Thabet's tape prompted an investigation by the Iraqi human rights group Hammurabi, which passed details onto the US weekly magazine Time in January.

Before publishing its account on 19 March, the magazine passed the tape to US military commanders in Baghdad, who initiated a preliminary investigation.

Following their findings, the official version was changed to say that, after the roadside bomb, the 15 civilians had been accidentally shot by marines during a firefight with insurgents.

Nevertheless, on 9 March the top commanders in Baghdad began a criminal investigation, led by the Naval Criminal Investigation Service (NCIS). Its report is expected within days.

On 7 April three officers in charge of troops in Haditha were also stripped of their command and reassigned.

Pretended to die

Eyewitness accounts suggest that comrades of Lance Corp Terrazas, far from coming under enemy fire, went on the rampage in Haditha after his death.

Twelve-year-old Safa Younis appears in a Hammurabi video saying she was in one of three houses where troops came in and indiscriminately killed family members.

"They knocked at our front door and my father went to open it. They shot him dead from behind the door and then they shot him again," she says in the video.

"Then one American soldier came in and shot at us all. I pretended to be dead and he didn't notice me."

Hammurabi says eight people died in the house, including Safa's five siblings, aged between 14 and two.

In another house seven people including a child and his 70-year-old grandfather were killed. Four brothers aged 41 to 24 died in a third house. Eyewitnesses said they were forced into a wardrobe and shot.

Outside in the street, US troops are said to have gunned down four students and a taxi driver they had stopped at a roadblock set up after the bombing.

Damage

The Pentagon has said little about the Haditha deaths publicly, and in Iraq the incident has caused little controversy - US troops there are already routinely viewed as trigger happy and indifferent to Iraqi casualties.

But politicians in Washington who have been briefed on the military investigation say it backs the story that marines killed civilians in cold blood.

The chairman of the Senate armed services committee, John Warner, says it will hold hearings into the incident and how it was handled.

Media commentators have spoken of it as "Iraq's My Lai" - a reference to the 1968 massacre of 500 villagers in Vietnam.

Democrat congressman John Murtha, a former marine and war veteran, has said the Haditha incident could turn out to be an even bigger scandal than the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal.

The Marine Corps has responded to Mr Murtha by saying it would be inappropriate to comment on an ongoing investigation, but would do so "as soon as the facts are known and decisions on future actions are made".
 
why bring it up now? well, i was perusing the BBC news website today, and found this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5036686.stm

The US military is to put all troops in Iraq through ethical training, in the wake of the alleged murder of civilians in Haditha, US press reports say.
General George W Casey is expected to order that "core values" training begin immediately, the reports say.

Correspondents say Haditha, where US marines are suspected of massacring up to 24 Iraqi civilians, could have a huge effect on US public opinion.

US President George W Bush has said he is "troubled" by the reports.

"If, in fact, these allegations are true, the Marine Corps will work hard to make sure that... those who violated the law - if indeed they did - will be punished," Mr Bush said on Wednesday.

DEATH IN HADITHA

November 2005: Initial US military report
One US marine killed in roadside bomb, two injured
Explosion also kills 15 Iraqi civilians
Eight insurgents killed in fire-fight following blast
January 2006: US military preliminary investigation
One US marine killed in roadside bomb, two injured
Fifteen civilians accidentally killed by US fire amid battle with insurgents
March 2006: US military begins criminal investigation


Massacre and cover-up?

Two US investigations are under way - one into the incident itself, and another into whether there was a cover up by the marines.


Over the past few days the American media have been dominated by pictures and interviews of Iraqis in Haditha, says the BBC's Andy Gallacher.

Politicians fear that the repercussions could be far worse than the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, he adds.

In response, the US military in Iraq has ordered its commanders to train troops in moral and ethical conduct on the battlefield, US media say.

Lieutenant-General Peter Chiarelli, commander of Multinational Corps Iraq, said the training would emphasise "professional military values and the importance of disciplined, professional conduct in combat" as well as Iraqi cultural expectations, according to a statement carried by the Associated Press.

"As military professionals, it is important that we take time to reflect on the values that separate us from our enemies. The challenge for us is to make sure the actions of a few do not tarnish the good work of the many," the statement continued.

When my father opened [the door] they shot him and then again. Then they threw a hand grenade into the bathroom... The Americans carried on shooting.

The Washington Post reported that the promotion of a top marine general has also has been put on hold pending the results of investigations.

The Pentagon is close to ending its two separate inquiries, a spokesman has said.

At the time of the killings in Haditha, last November, the military said the civilians were killed as a result of either a roadside bomb or a gun battle that erupted afterwards.

But reports from Iraqi witnesses and in the US media allege that marines went on a rampage, killing civilians, including women and children, without provocation, after one of their colleagues was killed by the bomb.

US media quoting military sources have said several marines are likely to be charged with murder.


Im not cr5iticisng the response from the US military in terms of charging people with Murder (and, one would hope, war crimes), but i have to ask this:

Training in why its wrong to shoot women and children.Does the US military really employ morons that need to be told this, cos i wouldnt have thought so.
 
It's a terrible situation, and after the full investigation, charges if needed should be pressed and justice pursued. But to call it My Lai is a mistake. My Lai killed 500, this killed at most 20.
 
Im well aware of what My Lai was, Im waiting for a visa so i can visit the place next year. Its the media referring to it as another My Lai
 
The media's in the wrong with it. They're just using it for sensationalism.
 
And one thing is that there has yet to be an official report issued and you have a Congressman (Murtha) running around screaming that the Marines killed in cold blood. Can't he at least wait until the military issues the report? He's one of the biggest idiots I've ever seen in D.C.
 
cass said:
And one thing is that there has yet to be an official report issued and you have a Congressman (Murtha) running around screaming that the Marines killed in cold blood. Can't he at least wait until the military issues the report? He's one of the biggest idiots I've ever seen in D.C.

Yes its all this distinguished veteran's fault for talking about it.
 
Armand Z Trip said:
Yes its all this distinguished veteran's fault for talking about it.

No what he's done is make a public accusation on an ongoing investigation which can only be used to fuel the insurgency. It's like the man wants more lives to be lost.
 
cass said:
No what he's done is make a public accusation on an ongoing investigation which can only be used to fuel the insurgency. It's like the man wants more lives to be lost.

Months after the press reported it the military has admitted a massacre took place http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002576401.

They aren't insurgents any more, don't you remember Donal Rumsfeld had an epiphany? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/29/AR2005112901405.html

Does John Kline want more lives lost? Has he made a public accusation on an ongoing investigation?

Rep. John Kline (R-Minn.), a retired Marine colonel, told the Times that the allegations indicated that "this was not an accident. This was direct fire by marines at civilians." He added, "This was not an immediate response to an attack. This would be an atrocity."
 
Armand Z Trip said:
Months after the press reported it the military has admitted a massacre took place http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002576401.

Yes, it certainly does look like a massacre did take place. But the media is overblowing it, screaming "My Lai!" where this is nowhere close to that.

Armand Z Trip said:
They aren't insurgents any more, don't you remember Donal Rumsfeld had an epiphany? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/29/AR2005112901405.html

:rolleyes:
Armand Z Trip said:
Does John Kline want more lives lost? Has he made a public accusation on an ongoing investigation?

Rep. John Kline (R-Minn.), a retired Marine colonel, told the Times that the allegations indicated that "this was not an accident. This was direct fire by marines at civilians." He added, "This was not an immediate response to an attack. This would be an atrocity."

I've not heard or seen Rep. Kline. I did see Murtha. Murtha is just using this to further his cause of cutting and running from Iraq. Apparently he wants to see another Saigon.
 

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