NBA Thread of 2017/2018: Count to 16

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]520417[/split]

 

[Immortalfire]

Here it goes.

Will Popovich smile? Will Lebron fire another coach? Will the Knicks....do something?

Woot.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If hobbled is an excuse for the 2015 Warriors in the WCF then the Warriors won their 2014 title by beating a hobbled Cavaliers team. I don't like that excuse.

But no, last year's WCF highlighted that they were beatable. Before you bring it up, I won't deny that Durant's game without Westbrook and with Curry, Green, and Thompson has increased exponentially. It's godly and as a fan, is incredible to watch. It's like watching Manning pick apart defenses. But Golden State was mortal against the OKC. That's my point.

Fine, they did. Everyone is healthy this year, they are about to sweep.

GSW were mortal because their best player was hurt and they were gassed from 73. This Warriors team is also beatable. Every team is beatable. You just seem upset they did what they should have done. Got better.

 

[InCali]

Injuries are significant (as we've seen over the last 2 years), but not an excuse. My personal opinion is that if Green keeps his wits about him (well, the wits that he has....), GS wins last year. Again, not an excuse, give it up for LeBron.

 

[The Apocalypse]

Here it goes.

Will Popovich smile? Will Lebron fire another coach? Will the Knicks....do something?

Woot.

 

[InCali]

Here it goes.

Will Popovich smile? Will Lebron fire another coach? Will the Knicks....do something?

Woot.

Man, what a mess of a madhouse that is in NY. No wonder Jeanie dumped him.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Wade showed up, Bosh showed up.

That's the narrative for the Lebron hater, but it's not really true when you watch the games. They are on Youtube so the fantasy world where Wade and Bosh were awesome but Lebron somehow kept those two from beating a weak Mavs team never existed in real life.

If those two were so amazing...why did they need Lebron to beat the Mavs? The claim is they were some "super team" and the Mavs were an easy foe, right?

But what really happened is that Wade and Bosh disappeared in crunch time just like everyone else did that year when they played the Mavs in the playoffs. The two time defending champ Lakers went out in a sweep and Kobe somehow "choked" like everyone else. Then Kevin Durant, Westbrook, and Harden took their turn to "choke" against the "inferior" Mavs. What a coincidence that everyone who played the Mavs that year just happened to "choke" at the same time, eh?

Game 2 was where it all started to come apart. In the last 6 and a half minutes when the Heat had a 15 point lead, here is what Wade and Bosh really did:

Wade only took 3 shots. He missed a 3pt attempt at 6:30 and didn't even try another shot until there were 38 seconds left in the game. He then topped it off with a missed 3 pointer at the buzzer that featured him trying to draw a foul. Oh...he got 1 rebound during that time too. He really "showed up", didn't he?

Bosh attempted 1 shot during that time...an airball. He contributed 2 turnovers too. That is a funny way of "showing up"!

Game 4 was more of the same. The Mavs had a 1 point lead with 5 minutes left. During that last 5 minutes:

Wade 1-2 shot attempts for 3pts 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 1 TO. He also fumbled the last inbounds pass to end the Heat's last chance to win the game. Nice job of "showing up" there Wade!

Bosh was 0 of 0 from the field with 2 points, 0 rebounds, and 0 assists. Quite a "showing"!

Surely they "showed up" for game 5, right? Well...not so much. Mavs had a 3 point lead with 6:30 left. Not a problem for "stars" like Wade and Bosh, right? It's only the Mavs after all...no one even knows how they got to the Finals from the tougher Western Conference.

A little better for Wade this time: 2-4 5pts, 1 assist, 1 TO Last points came with 4:36 left in the game. That's his "showing up" I guess.
Bosh 0-1, 2pts, 1 TO He sure "showed" them!

Well ok...so Wade and Bosh have been a no shows so far...but surely they will rise to the challenge in game 6, right? Let's give them more time to "show up". The Mavs had a 4 point lead with 10:30 left. It's game on...time for Wade and Bosh to "show up"!

Wade: 4 points on just 3 shot attempts and 2 turnovers. He was entertaining though when he dribbled off his own foot out of bounds at one point.
Bosh: 1 point and 2 rebounds. Quite the "show" for him too.

There...that's what really happened. Doesn't match the fantasy version some have created, but that's how it usually goes with fantasies.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Good lord, Derek Fisher is just embarrassing himself more and more. Please don't invite him to any Lakers reunions.

http://deadspin.com/report-derek-fisher-was-driving-car-registered-to-matt-1795942013

 

[Doc Samson]

Good lord, Derek Fisher is just embarrassing himself more and more. Please don't invite him to any Lakers reunions.

http://deadspin.com/report-derek-fisher-was-driving-car-registered-to-matt-1795942013

Barnes gonna want another match pretty soon lol!

That's the narrative for the Lebron hater, but it's not really true when you watch the games. They are on Youtube so the fantasy world where Wade and Bosh were awesome but Lebron somehow kept those two from beating a weak Mavs team never existed in real life.

C'mon Jeet lol, you just gotta let this go at some point. It's alright man, I don't think anyone is trying to absolve Miami as a team, they all had a hand in defeat.

But the fact is, LeBron is the best player in the world, the centerpiece, the engine, and he was essentially stopped by Jason Terry & Kidd on too many occasions for someone of his caliber and athletic superiority. They were daring him to shoot, and he was simply uncomfortable doing it, and we've never seen a superstar act like that in that situation before.

That said, I think people need to stop comparing GS to other "super teams" of the past. There's a fundamental difference here, and it's the quality of shooting. People scoffed when Mark Jackson first said it, but unquestionably, Curry & Klay are the best shooting backcourt of all time. Draymond is the prototype "big" of this era who can masquerade as your glue guy on one end, while being DPOY on the other. And Durant is one of the best scorers in history, who happens to be damn near 7 feet with a shot just as good as those other two.

It's a completely different beast from a traditional wing/post combo (Kobe/Shaq, Magic/Kareem etc.) two bigs (Robinson, Duncan) two ultra athletic wings (Wade/LeBron) or three vets near the end of their career (Pierce, Allen, KG). I don't care what team it is, you would have a helluva of a time trying to stop the Warriors...

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

Good lord, Derek Fisher is just embarrassing himself more and more. Please don't invite him to any Lakers reunions.

http://deadspin.com/report-derek-fisher-was-driving-car-registered-to-matt-1795942013

Barnes should beat his a$$ again.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Barnes gonna want another match pretty soon lol!

"Meet me in Temecula".

 

[Reek]

https://www.facebook.com/fakesportscenter/videos/1252220174905467/

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Steph's and Iggy's steals took LeBron soul.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

"Meet me in Temecula".

there's never a good reason to go to Temecula...

 

[the last son]

This series isn't over yet.

 

[The Apocalypse]

This series isn't over yet.

By midnight it will be though.

 

[InCali]

This series isn't over yet.

Oh.....okay. Did you hear LeBron talk about game 3?

Cavs were up by a couple near the end of the 1st quarter I believe, LeBron sat for a couple of minutes and the Warriors went on a 11 or 12 - 0 run (Darth, are you listening? ). His comments told me HE thinks the series is over. If so, I agree with him.

 

[Kane52630]

This series isn't over yet.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

C'mon Jeet lol, you just gotta let this go at some point. It's alright man, I don't think anyone is trying to absolve Miami as a team, they all had a hand in defeat.

That's not the claim though. The claim is that Wade and Bosh "showed up" and played well and that's not what happened. The same thing happened to them that happened to Lebron, Kobe, Kevin Durant, Westbrook, and Harden that year. That's how team basketball works. The Mavs were the better team and made everyone look like they "choked".

Kinda like how Durant and Westbrook "choked" last year against the Warriors but this year Durant suddenly looks like "the best player in the world" when he is on the better team. What a difference a year makes, eh? I don't think most fans have ever played basketball and understand how that works. It's much harder to play the sport when you are on the inferior team.

But the fact is, LeBron is the best player in the world, the centerpiece, the engine, and he was essentially stopped by Jason Terry & Kidd on too many occasions for someone of his caliber and athletic superiority. They were daring him to shoot, and he was simply uncomfortable doing it, and we've never seen a superstar act like that in that situation before.

That's what some believe. But it's happened to all of them if you go watch the times they lose in the playoffs. Go try it with any of them. MJ fans really think he "always showed up and was always the best player" but that's not true. In game 6 of the 1989 Pistons vs Bulls series he was 0-5 the last 5 minutes of a close game, scored just 2 points, and didn't take a shot in the last 3 minutes of the game. If Lebron did that in an elimination game, MJ fans would roast him. OH...and Isiah Thomas was the best player on the floor in crunch time too.

I know Kobe is your favorite....we can dig into his history if you don't believe how this works with all players. They all have points in their career when they are learning or have yet to improve a part of their game and the opposing team takes advantage. Lebron didn't have the advantage of great coaches in his career so he had to learn it all himself as he went.

If you ask me, Lebron was smarter. He is a facilitator at heart and knew his outside shot was not as dependable as his teammates at that time. Instead of just hoisting up bad shots like most other players do when they play "hero ball", he played the Magic Johnson role. He didn't have a Worthy and Kareem hitting those assists though.

Really what irritates me the most is that I love watching team basketball. GS is marvelous to watch. ...Unfortunately so marvelous they make it boring because no other team can come close to beating them... Fans have celebrated hero ball practitioners to the point where the league became all about isolation basketball with no movement. Lebron showing up would have changed that if he didn't fall under constant attack for being a passer. (see Bird and Magic in the 80s) It boggles my mind...there is no way most fans have ever played the game.

That said, I think people need to stop comparing GS to other "super teams" of the past. There's a fundamental difference here, and it's the quality of shooting. People scoffed when Mark Jackson first said it, but unquestionably, Curry & Klay are the best shooting backcourt of all time. Draymond is the prototype "big" of this era who can masquerade as your glue guy on one end, while being DPOY on the other. And Durant is one of the best scorers in history, who happens to be damn near 7 feet with a shot just as good as those other two.

Agreed. It's scary because I can't think of moves other teams can make to improve to the point where they can challenge them. Cavs pick up George? They would still suck on defense as a team unless they overhauled the whole roster. And I think they are stuck with Thompson now. (currently being out rebounded by Curry 29 to 11) Chris Paul to Spurs? I've never thought much of him really and he's 32. These older players can't endure defending the Warriors motion offense.

Lebron to the Spurs would work but that won't happen.

Question....how tall is KD really? I hear commentators on the radio say he is 6'11" all the time but he is listed as 6'9" online. I would think the commentators would know best since they are the ones who stand next to him and can compare him to other players. What is the real answer? If he's 6'11" I'm really impressed. That's unguardable.

 

[terry78]

Guys always exaggerate their height by a couple inches, someone would have to actually take a tape measure to him.

 

[InCali]

Even if the Cavs were to win tonight (which is doubtful but doable in my mind), this series is over. AND PLEASE don't tell me that the Cavs were down 3-1 last year and came back to win it. This is an entirely different set of circumstances.

If you essentially trade Durant for Harrison Barnes, I'll go out on a limb and say that's an upgrade.

As far as whether he's 6'9" or 6' 11", I don't care. He came into the league at 6'9" so it's not out of the question he's grown and inch or 2. No matter what his height, he IS basically unguardable and his wingspan is about 7' 5". Just look at his arms. He showed in game 3 that he's a stone cold killer. IMO, he smells blood in the water and he's going out there tonight looking for some scalps.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Guys always exaggerate their height by a couple inches, someone would have to actually take a tape measure to him.

KD is 7 feet tall. He use to lie and say he was 6'9 and 6'10 and those in the known knew this. Apparently he had a thing about being called a 7 footer because of how and where he played. He recently admitted he is actually 7 feet tall.

 

[InCali]

KD is 7 feet tall. He use to lie and say he was 6'9 and 6'10 and those in the known knew this. Apparently he had a thing about being called a 7 footer because of how and where he played. He recently admitted he is actually 7 feet tall.

That is sick that a guy that tall with that length can move like that. Him coming to GS made the team unguardable. It was bad enough last year. They've got at least 5 guys who are very proficient from 3 and 3 of those 5 are among the best in the league. It's crazy. Steph has shown he's at the superstar level that can bring you a championship (everyone needs a supporting cast). IMO, he's not the best player on the team anymore.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

KD is 7 feet tall. He use to lie and say he was 6'9 and 6'10 and those in the known knew this. Apparently he had a thing about being called a 7 footer because of how and where he played. He recently admitted he is actually 7 feet tall.

Holy smokes! Didn't know that. You would think that after Dirk, it wouldn't be a problem admitting you were 7 ft.

That is sick that a guy that tall with that length can move like that. Him coming to GS made the team unguardable. It was bad enough last year. They've got at least 5 guys who are very proficient from 3 and 3 of those 5 are among the best in the league. It's crazy. Steph has shown he's at the superstar level that can bring you a championship (everyone needs a supporting cast). IMO, he's not the best player on the team anymore.

That's something that makes them scary going forward...no egos. The Shaq/Kobe teams fell apart due to that. These Warriors players don't seem to care who gets shots or credit. Like you said, Curry isn't the best player on the team any more and he hasn't complained one bit. Thompson's shot isn't falling?...he just plays hard defense instead. KD has already said he would take less money so they could keep the team together. Wow... Could be the perfect storm of a team.

 

[The Apocalypse]

Can anyone find vegas odds on the Cavs coming back to win? I can't find anything.