Fantasy Netflix's The Witcher - General Discussion Thread

[Lilbaz]

I don't think filmmakers are required to make anything for anyone, but it's especially ridiculous to suggest that because people in other countries watch Hollywood movies, Hollywood's obligated to represent them. First, Hollywood has the actors it has to work with. Just because there's a billion people in India doesn't mean that Indians make up a large proportion of people, or actors, in Los Angeles. Second, if these countries don't feel represented by Hollywood movies, they can invest their own money and make their own f****** movies.

They do. India made twice as many films as america last year. 2 bollywood actors were in the top 10 highest paid actors last year aswell.

If people want more diversification go and watch these films. Some are fantastic.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I still have a thang for Sylvia Hoeks.

 

[Lilbaz]

I still have a thang for Sylvia Hoeks.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Primal Slayer]

70% of charcters in film are not white. The majority of film stars are not white. Hollywood only makes a fraction of films that are made each year. Nigeria makes more films a year than america as does india.

White people make up 70% of americas population, so having 70% of actors in hollywood films is a very fair representation.

THat graph specifically said Hollywood. And you went from 70% are not white but 70% of America is white so its fair? Or are you saying 70% globally. Though if it is fair that Hollywood is 70% white because America is 70% white, then what is wrong with tv shows/movies trying to introduce more people of color, it would very much show why there has to be race bending to something that isnt white.

It doesn't need to have necessarily references to real history. It's still can be inspired by real historic periods or places.

There's an example when I really liked the change to the usual depiction of elves in fantasy. Elf Quest. All-white forest elves are forced to leave their homeland. After they cross the desert they meet dark-skinned elves. It made total sense. It's authentic. I really enjoyed it and it never bothered me.
I can't react to every injustice made towards depiction of real or fantasy characters. This is probably inaccurate adaptation of Cleopatra's appearance. But I believe people didn't have a problem with this interpretation because Egyptian people can look like that. It's not out of ordinary.
I never denied their existence in Medieval Europe. It was still very small. Our (Russian) arguably greatest poet of 19th century is partially-black. But it's extreme rarity.

Even if POC made up a small % of Medieval Europe they still existed so having 3 characters out of an entire cast be non-white would be accurate lol.

The scenario you gave with Elf Quest is totally different, from the sounds of it they were all segregated to their own color groups. From what I've read on say Wiki, that doesnt seem the case for The Witcher.

 

[Lilbaz]

THat graph specifically said Hollywood. And you went from 70% are not white but 70% of America is white so its fair? Or are you saying 70% globally


Even if POC made up a small % of Medieval Europe they still existed so having 3 characters out of an entire cast be non-white would be accurate lol.

The scenario you gave with Elf Quest is totally different, from the sounds of it they were all segregated to their own color groups. From what I've read on say Wiki, that doesnt seem the case for The Witcher.

The graph said hollywood but you said 70% of characters in film (which is not accurate as hollywood only makes a fraction of the worlds films).

70% of the american population is white. 70% of actors in american films are white so it seems that there is fair representation.

 

[Primal Slayer]

The graph said hollywood but you said 70% of characters in film (which is not accurate as hollywood only makes a fraction of the worlds films).

70% of the american population is white. 70% of actors in american films are white so it seems that there is fair representation.

Lol now we just getting down to the nitty gritty because it was very obvious that I was replying to the graph I posted.

But in the end Hollywood needs to stop trying to stay white and hopefully with all these POC films being hits we start seeing a change.

 

[Lilbaz]

Lol now we just getting down to the nitty gritty because it was very obvious that I was replying to the graph I posted.

But in the end Hollywood needs to stop trying to stay white and hopefully with all these POC films being hits we start seeing a change.

Hollywood is an american film industry and white people are the majority of the american population, why shouldn't their films reflect that? That is representation.

I don't see people saying that chinese or nigerian films should have more white actors. Why not?

Should slavic people not be represented because they are white?

 

[Primal Slayer]

Hollywood is an american film industry and white people are the majority of the american population, why shouldn't their films reflect that? That is representation.

I don't see people saying that chinese or nigerian films should have more white actors. Why not?

America is not the land of the white. It may be the majority color because they took over but we are still a very diverse nation. They go out of their way to try to make films more white which is laughable and wrong for so many reasons. I mean females have the higher percentage to males in the US so why arent majority of the films female lead? They certainly arent, they arent even half.

We arent speaking for the Chinese or Nigerians and their film business.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Latinos Still Have Highest Moviegoing Rate in U.S., but Asians Are Close Behind

Latino audiences had the highest rate of moviegoing last year among ethnic groups in the U.S., followed by Asians, according to a new report by the Motion Picture Association of America.

The trade group, which released the report Wednesday, said Hispanic-Latino filmgoers went to the movies an average of 4.5 times during 2017 while Asians attended an average of 4.3 times. African-Americans went an average of 3.4 times last year and Caucasians attended an average of 3.2 times.

Latinos buy the second most tickets in the US, yet there representation in front of camera is atrocious.

 

[Lilbaz]

America is not the land of the white. It may be the majority color because they took over but we are still a very diverse nation. They go out of their way to try to make films more white which is laughable and wrong for so many reasons. I mean females have the higher percentage to males in the US so should majority of films be female lead? They certainly arent, they arent even half.

We arent speaking for the Chinese or Nigerians and their film business.

As i said 70% of the american population is white and 70% of characters in american films are white. That is a fair representation.

Should there be more films with female leads, yes why not?

If you want more films or shows with bame characters that is fine. Make films about stories with bame characters. Or watch films from other countries and support their film industries. There are fantastic films out there. I honestly think that the south koreans make superior films to hollywood these days.

 

[Iceman]

I don't think filmmakers are required to make anything for anyone, but it's especially ridiculous to suggest that because people in other countries watch Hollywood movies, Hollywood's obligated to represent them. First, Hollywood has the actors it has to work with. Just because there's a billion people in India doesn't mean that Indians make up a large proportion of people, or actors, in Los Angeles. Second, if these countries don't feel represented by Hollywood movies, they can invest their own money and make their own f****** movies.

Not at all what I was saying. Hollywood is marketing to and aiming for the global audience rather than just the local American audience. This is unlike the primary motivation of the other film industries mentioned which have a very local focus and make their films accordingly (see nationalistic Chinese films and typical Bollywood Hindi musicals). I’m not talking about an obligation to do anything, I’m talking about the desire from Hollywood to court the international dollar and as a result the stories we get can be very ambitious and epic in scale.

If you read the post I was replying to you might see your post doesn’t tie up with mine. The percentages stated are askew as Hollywood is the film industry for the global market with many films making a lot more outside of the US than within it, and as a result the audience percentages won’t be 70% white American, it will be a function of how the global audience breaks down (which will still have a very large percentage white).

 

[Black Narcissus]

And when of these characters gets turned into a minority, it aint the end of the world either.

Zazie Beetz
Zendaya
Ruth Negga

All pretty much nailed the character.

Sure, you can keep it as is, but it wasn't the end of it all. lol

 

[daddydivine]

Ciri is black? Wait till that gets confirmed and hits the mainstream media. People that never played the Witcher series will be up in arms.

 

[Primal Slayer]

As i said 70% of the american population is white and 70% of characters in american films are white. That is a fair representation.

Should there be more films with female leads, yes why not?

If you want more films or shows with bame characters that is fine. Make films about stories with bame characters. Or watch films from other countries and support their film industries. There are fantastic films out there. I honestly think that the south koreans make superior films to hollywood these days.

But why arent majority or half the films female lead in Hollywood? And it is a very known issue that they try to make films and tv shows with POC but have a much harder time getting them made. So we do what we must.

 

[Iceman]

Probably why the south koreans make better films tahn americans these days. They concentrate on telling good stories.

My point was that hollywood is not the film industry. It is just a part.

Tbh i'm not too fussed they changed ciri's colour. Slavs might be pissed though and i can understand that.

And hardly anyone would even know if the other film industries are making better films than Hollywood as hardly anyone is watching them in the US. The numbers are all out there. When a Chinese film makes it big “worldwide”, it still makes nearly all of its money in China. Same goes for most of the other primarily non-English speaking country film industries. When Hollywood film makes it big, often around 2/3 of the money comes from outside the country.

Not sure if this is relevant to the Ciri debate (and as mentioned I would happily see Ciri look identical to the game version), but I was just debating the points in that earlier post.

 

[Lilbaz]

And when of these characters gets turned into a minority, it aint the end of world either.

Doesn't bother me never read the books or played the games. Just think that film/tv makers should try and tell good stories. If you are adapting something then stay true to the source material.

 

[Fincher]

Not at all what I was saying. Hollywood is marketing to and aiming for the global audience rather than just the local American audience. This is unlike the primary motivation of the other film industries mentioned which have a very local focus and make their films accordingly (see nationalistic Chinese films and typical Bollywood Hindi musicals). I’m not talking about an obligation to do anything, I’m talking about the desire from Hollywood to court the international dollar and as a result the stories we get can be very ambitious and epic in scale.

If you read the post I was replying to you might see your post doesn’t tie up with mine. The percentages stated are askew as Hollywood is the film industry for the global market with many films making a lot more outside of the US than within it, and as a result the audience percentages won’t be 70% white American, it will be a function of how the global audience breaks down (which will still have a very large percentage white).

That chart wasn't to evaluate how well Hollywood is functioning as a global business, and Primal Slayer wasn't using it to argue whether Hollywood is courting the international dollar well. That said, if you aren't saying that Hollywood is obligated to do anything, then okay.

 

[Lilbaz]

And hardly anyone would even know if the other film industries are making better films than Hollywood as hardly anyone is watching them in the US. The numbers are all out there. When a Chinese film makes it big “worldwide”, it still makes nearly all of its money in China. Same goes for most of the other primarily non-English speaking country film industries. When Hollywood film makes it big, often around 2/3 of the money comes from outside the country.

Not sure if this is relevant to the Ciri debate (and as mentioned I would happily see Ciri look identical to the game version), but I was just debating the points in that earlier post.

So white people should be underrepresented as hollywood represents the world?

 

[Lilbaz]

But why arent majority or half the films female lead in Hollywood? And it is a very known issue that they try to make films and tv shows with POC but have a much harder time getting them made. So we do what we must.

I've already said that i'm happy to see females get more leading roles so not sure your point? If poc have a harder time getting films made then hollywood etc... should change that.

 

[daddydivine]

So white people should be underrepresented as hollywood represents the world?

You know you're getting off topic when you start throwing out hypotheticals that are no where close to happening.

 

[Iceman]

That chart wasn't to evaluate how well Hollywood is functioning as a global business, and Primal Slayer wasn't using it to argue whether Hollywood is courting the international dollar well. That said, if you aren't saying that Hollywood is obligated to do anything, then okay.

I wasn’t talking about a graph and hadn’t even seen Primal Slayer’s post at the time lol. I was just commenting on Lilbaz’s extraction from the debate re Hollywood catering to its own local (US) audience (like other film industries to) rather than the global audience that we know it targets. So the percentages don’t really make sense when it’s making films that can make up to $2B overseas.

 

[Lilbaz]

You know you're getting off topic when you start throwing out hypotheticals that are no where close to happening.

Just seems that is what some of you are arguing for.

 

[Lilbaz]

I wasn’t talking about a graph and hadn’t even seen Primal Slayer’s post at the time lol. I was just commenting on Lilbaz’s extraction from the debate re Hollywood catering to its own local (US) audience (like other film industries to) rather than the global audience that we know it targets. So the percentages don’t really make sense when it’s making films that can make up to $2B overseas.

If they are successful now with the representation they have (which seems fair) then why do they need even more poc? Do you really think that people in africa or china wont watch the witcher if ciri is white? Or they will watch it because she isn't?

 

[Iceman]

So white people should be underrepresented as hollywood represents the world?

Modern day Hollywood is a very well developed film industry and doesn’t make narrowly focused films that are all about the US, unlike the majority of locally-focussed films made by the other film industries. When it makes a film based on a real American white-dominated city, then you would expect the cast to be majority-white for it to feel authentic. But in new fantasy, sci-fi or films based in other countries there is no need for that. That said, I don’t want the races of important existing characters changed, just want future media in those genres to have more diversity in new source material so we get more diversity with much less controversy.

 

[Lilbaz]

Modern day Hollywood is a very well developed film industry and doesn’t make narrowly focused films that are all about the US, unlike the majority of films made by the other film industries. When it makes a film based on a real American white-dominated city, then you would expect the cast to be majority-white for it to feel authentic. But in new fantasy, sci-fi or films based in other countries there is no need for that. That said, I don’t want the races of important existing characters changed, just want future media in those genres to have more diversity in new source material so we get more diversity with much less controversy.

What we need is more ethnic writers and directors coming through. But also to support foreign films.