Transformers New Footage!!!

[Boiiinng]

But...saying that it's NOT the Transformers simply inaccurate. If Hasbro is telling you that THIS is the new or latest incarnation or this is what they're going to be from now on...what's to argue? You may not like it...and it may not resemble what you think it ought to...but who are you to deny what the creators of the property are telling you? Just to be stubborn again something you don’t like? It’s interesting when a segment of fandom seems to feel entitled enough to pick and choose that which they feel is worthy.

I point out that Hasbro, the company that governs the TF franchise entirely, has put this latest incarnation of TF out there and I’m being ludicrous? That’s not my opinion. That’s factual. Your entire argument is based on the fact that it’s not like what’s come before (debatable) and or it’s not what you like.

It's not about what we like or what we don't like. It's about what's appropriate and deserving of a franchise. You're telling me that if McDonald's someday served a one-patty sandwich and called it the new Big Mac that people wouldn't complain? Please.

 

[Stikmann]

It's not about what we like or what we don't like. It's about what's appropriate and deserving of a franchise. You're telling me that if McDonald's someday served a one-patty sandwich and called it the new Big Mac that people wouldn't complain? Please.

I'm saying peoples complaints would be irrelevant. If McDonalds decided that they weren't making the Big Mac as you know it anymore, that's their right and their decision. You don't have to buy the new version. And if enough people did buy the new version and enjoy it, McD would continue to make it the new way. And call it whatever they want. You could stand in front of McD's with a picket sign saying that the new burger isn't a Big Mac, that wouldn't make it so though. And it wouldn't make a difference. For a whole new generation, THAT'S the new Big Mac.

 

[YÅ«gi's BM]

This past weekend, I put in my G1 Season One dvds. I watched roughly the first half of season one. There’s virtually no way those episodes were making any sort of statement on the Earth’s resources. I don’t think I missed the message as a kid and I don’t think I’m missing it now. Sure there was potential…but they never really explored it. What details do you find? Can you give examples? I really see no legitimate signs that they (the writers) actually had any of the energy crisis or oil embargo on their minds. That’s not to say that they didn’t…but see no evidence of that. Actually, it seemed that the Autobots and Deceps could keep taking and creating energon at will with no consequence to the planet. At the end of the first story arch alone, all the worlds governments came together to give Optimus Prime all the energy he would need as a sign of thanks. Seemed like they were just tossing it around.

Agreed on the Bumblebee thing…however, the character of Bumblebee was more of a product of the 80’s. Heck, Hasbro started to steer away from his type and replaced him with the Hotrod model by the movie. My point, though, was that the “G1’ers”, were insisting that Bumblebee was a pacifist when that was never the case. And no matter how much anyone would argue that, it would never be resolved. I guess that’s the same thing that is happening here. Neither side will bend on this. To me, the TF’s has never been constant. There is no one version of them. We have been and always will be at the mercy of Hasbro and whatever creators they select. And since G1, in my opinion the only good that’s come along is Beast Wars (not counting comics…there are plenty of good comics). The preview for the new movie alone is better than every variation I’ve seen since BW ended.

Whether or not the comics and tv show were complimentary is debatable (origins and personalities were completely different in many cases)...but either way...MANY ranters argue points based on assumptions having never even read the comics. I mean, the new IDW TF comics (Mainly Infiltration and Escalation) are EXCELLENT. But I bet that if they based the movie on that, the ranters would be just as angry. In the "New G1" comic continuity, the Autobots didn't arrive on Earth on the Arc. That alone is blasphemy to them.

CFlash, do you consider yourself a ranter? If so, is there anything you actually like about the movie? Do you intend to see it? Do you have any hope that you may actually like it? I’m just curious about motivations. I HATED the first FF movie. I didn’t like the way it looked and the casting decisions. I didn’t even bother seeing it at the theater. And I have no intention of seeing the 2nd one this summer. But, despite being a regular FF reader since about the age of 13 or so, I don’t feel like I’m owed anything. And I don’t bother going to the FF boards to bash the film either. And I’m not saying you have no right to be here…and bash away if you must. I just don’t get the motivations to stick around and knock something all the time. Many ranters say “No way I’m gonna see the movie.” So I don’t get why they hang around at the board devoted to the movie. There are TF boards that are not related to the movie. Arguing that the TF movie isn’t actually the TF’s just seems ludicrous to me.

But...saying that it's NOT the Transformers simply inaccurate. If Hasbro is telling you that THIS is the new or latest incarnation or this is what they're going to be from now on...what's to argue? You may not like it...and it may not resemble what you think it ought to...but who are you to deny what the creators of the property are telling you? Just to be stubborn again something you don’t like? It’s interesting when a segment of fandom seems to feel entitled enough to pick and choose that which they feel is worthy.

I point out that Hasbro, the company that governs the TF franchise entirely, has put this latest incarnation of TF out there and I’m being ludicrous? That’s not my opinion. That’s factual. Your entire argument is based on the fact that it’s not like what’s come before (debatable) and or it’s not what you like.

I agree with pretty much everything you're saying (although I did like Fantastic Four!)

1) Hasbro didn't create the Transformers toys. Two (or more?) distinct Japanese companies did. Hasbro just licensed the toys from them.

2) Hasbro didn't even create the backstories and characters. Marvel did. Specifically, Jim Shooter and Bob Budianksy. They didn't even create the character bios and specs on the boxes. Again, Marvel did. They also didn't have anything to do with the cartoon. The guys at Sunbow wrote it using cues from Marvel.

You should also know that Hasbro (now) also owns Gobots. It's perfectly within their right to commision a Gobots movie and call it "Transformers." Which is what they seem to have done. Based on what you say, I assume you think that's perfectly alright and great. I disagree.

Hasbo runs the show here and it isn't like you're the main audience here. The Negatrons keep complaining that there childhood is being muddle with but what about the childhood's of this generation? You guys had the animated film let's give the kids of today their film, their times.

If you are true Transformers fans then you will give this film a chance, if not the least you can do is let todays generation have their adventures. If the young lions of today wish to dig up the old tales of us old lions, then let them.

 

[Stikmann]

1) Hasbro didn't create the Transformers toys. Two (or more?) distinct Japanese companies did. Hasbro just licensed the toys from them.

2) Hasbro didn't even create the backstories and characters. Marvel did. Specifically, Jim Shooter and Bob Budianksy. They didn't even create the character bios and specs on the boxes. Again, Marvel did. They also didn't have anything to do with the cartoon. The guys at Sunbow wrote it using cues from Marvel.

You should also know that Hasbro (now) also owns Gobots. It's perfectly within their right to commision a Gobots movie and call it "Transformers." Which is what they seem to have done. Based on what you say, I assume you think that's perfectly alright and great. I disagree.

I meant that it's Hasbro that brought us the Transformers as we know it (in the US anyway). They own it. They control it. In all likelyhood, they bought up the Gobots rights to keep anyone from trumping them.

What's your point about the characters backstories? They had little to do with the tv show stories. People are complaining that the new movie characters aren't reflecting the G1 counterparts? How so? From what I see, the characters are very much like the G1 versions. Actually, going by the prequel novel, they're even more fleshed out (in that we can read their thoughts etc.) But seeing as how it's not a G1 movie...they didn't even need to be all that faithful.

If they did decide to make a Gobots movie, of course I'd be fine with it. Who am I to tell them what they can and can't do? I wouldn't have any interest in it though. And I wouldn't bother seeing it. I happen to enjoy the Transformers quite a bit...especially G1. So I'm looking forward to the movie.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I don't have quite the depth of opinion on this you guys seem to have,i watched TF as a kid and then didn't see them again until recently and other than some of the main characters i found the boxset nostalgic but corny and in truth laughable.

for me with this movie much like Beast Wars they have redesigned the TF's for a new generation but have kept in tact the essence of them and so far i love what i am seeing and i really liked the script.

 

[YÅ«gi's BM]

I don't have quite the depth of opinion on this you guys seem to have,i watched TF as a kid and then didn't see them again until recently and other than some of the main characters i found the boxset nostalgic but corny and in truth laughable.

for me with this movie much like Beast Wars they have redesigned the TF's for a new generation but have kept in tact the essence of them and so far i love what i am seeing and i really liked the script.

An incomplete script, I might add! The potential is still left open for more improvement!

 

[CFlash]

I meant that it's Hasbro that brought us the Transformers as we know it (in the US anyway). They own it. They control it. In all likelyhood, they bought up the Gobots rights to keep anyone from trumping them.

What's your point about the characters backstories? They had little to do with the tv show stories. People are complaining that the new movie characters aren't reflecting the G1 counterparts? How so? From what I see, the characters are very much like the G1 versions. Actually, going by the prequel novel, they're even more fleshed out (in that we can read their thoughts etc.) But seeing as how it's not a G1 movie...they didn't even need to be all that faithful.

If they did decide to make a Gobots movie, of course I'd be fine with it. Who am I to tell them what they can and can't do? I wouldn't have any interest in it though. And I wouldn't bother seeing it. I happen to enjoy the Transformers quite a bit...especially G1. So I'm looking forward to the movie.

Why??? You wouldn't go see it just because their names are Leader-1 and Cy-Kill? And baby-making-machine main plot is called the The Last Engineer instead of the Energon Cube... I mean AllSpark (or whatever they're calling it now in the movie)?

Why wouldn't you go see it? You like the name Optimus Prime and Megatron so much... Is that really all it's about? Really? Man, I don't get it.

 

[Stikmann]

I don't have quite the depth of opinion on this you guys seem to have,i watched TF as a kid and then didn't see them again until recently and other than some of the main characters i found the boxset nostalgic but corny and in truth laughable.

for me with this movie much like Beast Wars they have redesigned the TF's for a new generation but have kept in tact the essence of them and so far i love what i am seeing and i really liked the script.

Yeah, some of those G1 episodes really are laughable (See: Bumblebee and Brawn in labcoats posing as humans! Yeesh!). But I do like to pop them in from time to time and kick back on a rainy day and watch them.

I didn't let myself read the entire script. I only read the first few pages or so. I liked what I read though.

 

[CFlash]

I don't have quite the depth of opinion on this you guys seem to have,i watched TF as a kid and then didn't see them again until recently and other than some of the main characters i found the boxset nostalgic but corny and in truth laughable.

for me with this movie much like Beast Wars they have redesigned the TF's for a new generation but have kept in tact the essence of them and so far i love what i am seeing and i really liked the script.

I get a laugh out of Gargoyles. Even though at the time I thought it was genius (and I was in college!). Even now, I get a laugh out of how bad the 1990's Batman cartoon was compared to the likes of Beyond and Justice League. Wait! Speaking of Justice League.... isn't that several years old now? Don't even get me started on how corny that one is.

But, honestly, I think unless you were a certain age when TF came out... and were surrounded by Smurfs and Pac-man fever and Saturday Supercade, you really can't appreciate just how good Transformers was at the time.

 

[Stikmann]

Why??? You wouldn't go see it just because their names are Leader-1 and Cy-Kill? And baby-making-machine main plot is called the The Last Engineer instead of the Energon Cube... I mean AllSpark (or whatever they're calling it now in the movie)?

Why wouldn't you go see it? You like the name Optimus Prime and Megatron so much... Is that really all it's about? Really? Man, I don't get it.

What? No....I like the Transformers characters. You may not think they seem like the TF's but what's that got to do with me? And I don't care that they're searching for the Allspark...as I said before, they've searched for things before. What difference does it make that they're seaching for something again? And who knows what it means for a sequel?

How is movie Optimus Prime like Leader-1? How is he NOT like G1 Optimus?

 

[Hunter Rider]

Yeah, some of those G1 episodes really are laughable (See: Bumblebee and Brawn in labcoats posing as humans! Yeesh!). But I do like to pop them in from time to time and kick back on a rainy day and watch them.

I didn't let myself read the entire script. I only read the first few pages or so. I liked what I read though.

Oh they are definitely a fun nostalgic trip i agree

I get a laugh out of Gargoyles. Even though at the time I thought it was genius (and I was in college!). Even now, I get a laugh out of how bad the 1990's Batman cartoon was compared to the likes of Beyond and Justice League. Wait! Speaking of Justice League.... isn't that several years old now? Don't even get me started on how corny that one is.

But, honestly, I think unless you were a certain age when TF came out... and were surrounded by Smurfs and Pac-man fever and Saturday Supercade, you really can't appreciate just how good Transformers was at the time.

Justice League is getting on in years yep,they have now advanced to JLA unlimited which is over crowded IMO
BTAS for me is still the best representation of the character in the visual medium,i mean yeah the animation has dated but the stoires,tone and presentation create the atmosphere that still engages me

I think we are a similar age and i agree at the time TF was indeed a huge step forward,at that point for me it was TF,He-Man and MASK,everything else was "lame" to me lol.....this i think was a few years before Thundercats and The Turtles arrived.

 

[CFlash]

What? No....I like the Transformers characters. You may not think they seem like the TF's but what's that got to do with me? And I don't care that they're searching for the Allspark...as I said before, they've searched for things before. What difference does it make that they're seaching for something again? And who knows what it means for a sequel?

How is movie Optimus Prime like Leader-1? How is he NOT like G1 Optimus?

Based on the leaked script and the producer and writers comments:

1) Yes, Optmus is very much like his G1 self... his horrendously corny and tacky chrome laden alt-mode notwithstanding. I'll give you that. I love Optimus' robot look in the movie. I can even forgive the fish lips.

2) Nothing about Bumblebee except him being "nice" (weren't they all nice?) is anything like G1 Bumblebee. Not his skill level, not his power. He's an absolute badass in the script. I guess some may think this is "cool." I don't.

3) G1 Megatron was not a monster. He roars in the script. He freakin roars!!! Oh, and he eats souls (sparks)... like he's straight from Highlander. Yes, he eats souls.

4) The script also describes Starscream as vulture-like and animalistic in his mannerisms. Something confirmed by the Chimpanzee move in the trailer. Is that StarScream?

5) No Earth weapon AFAIK in G1 could touch the Transformers. That's why the Autobots were so important. In this movie they're all victim to Sector 7's freeze ray. At this point I shall refrain from making the comparison to a similarly "missed point" that happened back in 1998.

6) And yes, The Gobot-like "quest-for-babies" plot. Which you make a very good point on by saying this is just one chapter. Who knows what the future sequels will be about. I agree.... but, I wouldn't hold by breath. The *first* movie is the *perfect* point to address the original energy crisis plot. They kinda missed it I think. But, who knows.

 

[jdre_124]

Can anyone PM me or give me a link to the script???

 

[Stikmann]

Based on the leaked script and the producer and writers comments:

1) Yes, Optmus is very much like his G1 self... his horrendously corny and tacky chrome laden alt-mode notwithstanding. I'll give you that. I love Optimus' robot look in the movie. I can even forgive the fish lips.

2) Nothing about Bumblebee except him being "nice" (weren't they all nice?) is anything like G1 Bumblebee. Not his skill level, not his power. He's an absolute badass in the script. I guess some may think this is "cool." I don't.

3) G1 Megatron was not a monster. He roars in the script. He freakin roars!!! Oh, and he eats souls (sparks)... like he's straight from Highlander. Yes, he eats souls.

4) The script also describes Starscream as vulture-like and animalistic in his mannerisms. Something confirmed by the Chimpanzee move in the trailer. Is that StarScream?

5) No Earth weapon AFAIK in G1 could touch the Transformers. That's why the Autobots were so important. In this movie they're all victim to Sector 7's freeze ray. At this point I shall refrain from making the comparison to a similarly "missed point" that happened back in 1998.

6) And yes, The Gobot-like "quest-for-babies" plot. Which you make a very good point on by saying this is just one chapter. Who knows what the future sequels will be about. I agree.... but, I wouldn't hold by breath. The *first* movie is the *perfect* point to address the original energy crisis plot. They kinda missed it I think. But, who knows.

1. So since Optimus Prime doesn't look like G1 Prime enough to you, he's Leader-1? Okay.

2. From everything I've read so far, Bumblebee is still the "younger brother" character. Still trying to live up to the bigger bots. Isn't that the essence of Bumblebee? Plus, he's the one that's closest to the humans.

3. I've seen G1 Megatron, scream, roar, yell and just about everything else. What's your point. And in Beast Machines, Megatron was stealing sparks for his own purpose. And I know that's a different Megatron...I'm pointing out that the idea of spark (or soul) collection isn't new to the TF mythos.

4. I would consider Starscream to be very "vulture like" in the behavior in many ways. More willing for a fight though. But yeah, his design is as far away from G1 (or any other incarnation) as can be. His character (again from what I've read) is very much intact. This is going by the prequel novel.

5. There are episodes where humans were keeping Decepticons at bay with their bare hands. In the opening story arch, Spike disarmed Starscream with a rock. Nothing more.

I still don't see your point that Optimus is Leader-1. Because he doesn't look right to you? The chrome?

 

[Boiiinng]

3. I've seen G1 Megatron, scream, roar, yell and just about everything else.

No, you haven't.

 

[CFlash]

Stikkman, Wow! Way to miss every single point point!

Though all your comments missed my point (it's OK, maybe I just can't write), I'll just shed light on two (maybe then the others fall into place). By "Vulture-like" I meant he moves, he "perches" on ledges, crouched like a gargoyle, and he stalks like a Vulture. Simply put, he acts like a "creature." That's not Starscream. Megatron stealing souls? I meant they fly to him like Highlander The Quickening. He's a demonic sort of creature (in the script). That's not Megatron.

BTW, I do understand that you think this is all great. I think it's cool too... it just not Transformers. I don't care what you say Hasbro says.

 

[Boiiinng]

I'm saying peoples complaints would be irrelevant. If McDonalds decided that they weren't making the Big Mac as you know it anymore, that's their right and their decision. You don't have to buy the new version. And if enough people did buy the new version and enjoy it, McD would continue to make it the new way. And call it whatever they want. You could stand in front of McD's with a picket sign saying that the new burger isn't a Big Mac, that wouldn't make it so though. And it wouldn't make a difference. For a whole new generation, THAT'S the new Big Mac.

Complaints are not irrelevant. Complaints make or break the profit of a business. You're right, if more people than not agree with a company's change, they won't change back. However, if a change causes a company to lose money, the change will be reversed. That's business 101. Transformers, unfortunately, will make a healthy profit, there is no doubt, because there's enough visually recognizable elements to keep old fans and bring in new ones, and even though the majority of Transformer fans hate most of the changes, they will still see the movie, making the producers and Hasbro think they did a good thing by the result of the movie selling tickets and making money. As far as I know, a movie has never been successfully boycotted based on artistic merit and I don't think it ever will. The almighty dollar!!!

 

[CFlash]

2. From everything I've read so far, Bumblebee is still the "younger brother" character. Still trying to live up to the bigger bots. Isn't that the essence of Bumblebee? Plus, he's the one that's closest to the humans.

No, that's the essense of Scooter......
The essense of Bumblebee was quite well stated in Transformers Issue #1 as well as on his spec card.

 

[CFlash]

Complaints are not irrelevant. Complaints make or break the profit of a business. You're right, if more people than not agree with a company's change, they won't change back. However, if a change causes a company to lose money, the change will be reversed. That's business 101. Transformers, unfortunately, will make a healthy profit, there is no doubt, because there's enough visually recognizable elements to keep old fans and bring in new ones, and even though the majority of Transformer fans hate most of the changes, they will still see the movie, making the producers and Hasbro think they did a good thing by the result of the movie selling tickets and making money. As far as I know, a movie has never been successfully boycotted based on artistic merit and I don't think it ever will. The almighty dollar!!!

I'm not so sure about that. It comes down to "expectations." Godzilla sequels were greenlighted right before the first one came out. Contracts were offered, storyboards created, money set aside, the whole pre-production shebang. Immense amount of toys were rolled into Toys R Us only to be shovelled out by the truckload and dumped soon after in a scene not witnessed since the gaming industry/Atari meltdown of the early 80's. It was a fiasco.

Although the movie did end up making money (if you only take production costs in to account), I think that it might be an example of "successfully boycotted" movie.

 

[deathshead2]

I'm not so sure about that. It comes down to "expectations." Godzilla sequels were greenlighted right before the first one came out. Contracts were offered, storyboards created, money set aside, the whole pre-production shebang. Immense amount of toys were rolled into Toys R Us only to be shovelled out by the truckload and dumped soon after in a scene not witnessed since the gaming industry/Atari meltdown of the early 80's. It was a fiasco.

Although the movie did end up making money (if you only take production costs in to account), I think that it might be an example of "successfully boycotted" movie.

Did the godzilla toys really do that bad. I don't remember doing bad. Heck everyone I knew had some toys. How I want that really big godzilla toy. But no my friend got it insted. Oh and the sequels I really wanted them badly I love the remake of godzilla.

 

[Stikmann]

No, that's the essense of Scooter......
The essense of Bumblebee was quite well stated in Transformers Issue #1 as well as on his spec card.

You mean this?

Bumblebee is the Autobots little brother. He's small, eager and at times can be a bit of a smart-mouth. Yet for all his wisecracks, he obviously idolizes the bigger robots, especially Optimus and Prowl. He is useful as a messenger and a spy; he can go where other vehicles would not dare because he does not look threatening. And his relatively small size occasionally enables him to use routes not available to the others. More than anything, Bumblebee wants to be accepted, and this sometimes causes him to take chances he shouldn't.

That's pretty much what I said. The little brother. He may or may not be as weak as he was...but the little brother aspect is what I was referring to.

 

[Stikmann]

Stikkman, Wow! Way to miss every single point point!

Though all your comments missed my point (it's OK, maybe I just can't write), I'll just shed light on two (maybe then the others fall into place). By "Vulture-like" I meant he moves, he "perches" on ledges, crouched like a gargoyle, and he stalks like a Vulture. Simply put, he acts like a "creature." That's not Starscream. Megatron stealing souls? I meant they fly to him like Highlander The Quickening. He's a demonic sort of creature (in the script). That's not Megatron.

BTW, I do understand that you think this is all great. I think it's cool too... it just not Transformers. I don't care what you say Hasbro says.

Okay and I understand that it's not Tranformers to you. That's pretty much meaningless to anyone else on Earth but you. Everyone else has a toyline, comic adaptions, possibly an animated series, and maybe a couple more movies, etc. that says otherwise.

 

[CFlash]

You mean this?

Bumblebee is the Autobots little brother. He's small, eager and at times can be a bit of a smart-mouth. Yet for all his wisecracks, he obviously idolizes the bigger robots, especially Optimus and Prowl. He is useful as a messenger and a spy; he can go where other vehicles would not dare because he does not look threatening. And his relatively small size occasionally enables him to use routes not available to the others. More than anything, Bumblebee wants to be accepted, and this sometimes causes him to take chances he shouldn't.

That's pretty much what I said. The little brother. He may or may not be as weak as he was...but the little brother aspect is what I was referring to.

Yes, that's his profile from Transformers-Universe #1. But why is he like that? Well, it would be obvious if you hadn't left out his Abilities and Skills that appear right under in the same bio. Get yourself the full issue of Transformers-Universe. He's not just weak. He's the weakest (2/10 strength). He's not just "not very fast," he's absurdly slow (4/10 speed).

I'd suggest while you're at it, take note of Transformers #1 "drop of fuel" comment and realize why him being a hot-rod is wrong on so many levels.

 

[CFlash]

Okay and I understand that it's not Tranformers to you. That's pretty much meaningless to anyone else on Earth but you. Everyone else has a toyline, comic adaptions, possibly an animated series, and maybe a couple more movies, etc. that says otherwise.

My little godbrother loves Shumacher's Batman movies. That doesn't mean I'd excuse Batman Begins for being more like them. I grew up on, loved (and still do), Adam West's 60's Batman. Doesn't mean I wanted Batman 89 to use that incarnation... and I was glad when Burton went back to Batman's original horror roots for inspiration.

 

[Boiiinng]

You mean this?

Bumblebee is the Autobots little brother. He's small, eager and at times can be a bit of a smart-mouth. Yet for all his wisecracks, he obviously idolizes the bigger robots, especially Optimus and Prowl. He is useful as a messenger and a spy; he can go where other vehicles would not dare because he does not look threatening. And his relatively small size occasionally enables him to use routes not available to the others. More than anything, Bumblebee wants to be accepted, and this sometimes causes him to take chances he shouldn't.

That's pretty much what I said. The little brother. He may or may not be as weak as he was...but the little brother aspect is what I was referring to.

Personalities should be reinforced by visual characteristics. We're not reading a book here, we're watching a movie. Last time I checked, a Camaro is more menacing than a little coupe anyday. And if they think starting him off as a run-down old model helps, they're wrong. The older models were more menacing than the new ones ever will be.