New Joe Fridays: Week 50

[Specter313]

http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays50.html

 

[Specter313]

X-Men: Emperor Vulcan

Foolkiller

 

[Darthphere]

Foolkiller, lawl.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Emperor Vulcan sounds kind of good. I like Havok and the Starjammers...

 

[King_Mungi]

Foolkiller, lawl.

My thoughts exactally

 

[Themanofbat]

If FoolKiller was written by Steve Gerber, I'd certainly give it a look.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

If FoolKiller was written by Steve Gerber, I'd certainly give it a look.

Excellent character.

 

[PhotoJones]

Emperor Vulcan sounds kind of good. I like Havok and the Starjammers...

Well sir, you can have it. I'm from the camp that X-Men and space don't mix....unless, you know, it's Joss Whedon. And Astroid M. And Phoenix stories.

Crap.

 

[Kevin]

Wow, this is uber late. Stupid Joe.

 

[PhotoJones]

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Friday was only yesterday.

 

[cookiva]

Wow, does this seem good to you guys?

IMO, no.

 

[PhotoJones]

Does what seem good?

 

[Darthphere]

Can everyone please post coherent thoughts? Thanks.

 

[Kevin]

Friday was only yesterday.

Well, I look forward to this every week. If it's not here on friday, I lose all hope. THis is seriously the only good thing about my fridays. Yesterday was really crappy for me.

 

[cookiva]

Does what seem good?

I dont even know anymore...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Your avatar seems good.

 

[PhotoJones]

What happened to this thread?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It went crazy. We have to read it again knowing what we know about Wanda.

 

[PhotoJones]

Bendis....

 

[Dread]

50 weeks of JF's/NJF's; that's almost a year's worth of interviews with argueably the biggest man in Western comics right now (as Marvel pretty much swamps DC month after month). I usually am hard, negative, and borderline obsessive when it comes to commenting on Joe's statements here, but this week there will be positives. Seriously!

- The thing starts off with a bang with NEWSARAMA asking a good question; seriously, despite some off weeks, NEWSARAMA doesn't coddle Joe Q and either asks him some decent questions or allows internet fans to do so; not nearly the back-rubbing tripe of the average WIZARD interview. They basically assert that with Iron Man's film a year away and the character now at the center of controversay for his hardline approaches, some sort of "redemption" arc is inevitable. They suggest WWH may be part of it; what better way to prove all of his "sins" during CW were with it if he & the Initiative can save the world from an invasion of aliens led by The Hulk? Joe Q naturally was coy, but here are the words I wanted to highlight:

You’re going to have to keep reading the books to find out where this all ends up. What I can tell you is that we’re planned waaaaaaayyyyyy ahead with respect to where are characters are headed and from what I see of the road map, it’s going to be an amazing ride.

But, another thing to keep in mind is that when we plan these character arcs and macro story beats, we always leave room for the organic. In other words, you never know when inspiration is going to hit a creator or an editor and we end up seeing stories that take a twist even we didn’t plan for.

This is about the closest he's gotten to admitting that while Joe Q & Marvel's editorial board claims to "plan" everything they do in advance, things change, and sometimes there are bungles or alterations. Despite what everyone says, CIVIL WAR bore signs of last minute rewrites, because I can't believe an original draft would have been so full of distractions. And then there was the whole "kill Gravity & make him the new Capt. Marvel/WHOOPS! we want to actually revive THE Mar-Vell/now we have to bring back Gravity and bend over backwards to insert him just as he was, sorta" from McDuffie's BEYOND/NFF and the editors. It's not an outright admission of these sorts of quibbles, but it's rather close. It is a fair explanation from his position. It just is a shame that sometimes professionals can't seem to avoid errors that some of the audience wouldn't be caught dead making on a MB.

- Joe Q notes that part of the price one pays with Dan Slott's AVENGERS: INITIATIVE being upgraded to ongoing is some decompression; originally in his draft for 6 issues, the WWH tie-in would only be 1 issue; now it is two, which delays a certain part of the story to later issues. However, this allows Slott to stretch out some bits and add more. As A:I is usually packed to the gills with story and characters, I can forgive some decompression. Hell, more's still happened there than in a few issues of NEW AVENGERS (3 issues in the same scene; it's just like manga, only more pretentious!).

At this point I think I need to make a statement retracting certain things I said/feared about "The Initiative" when it was first launched. Initially coming off a 50+ part CW event, when I saw that The Initiative would have almost as many tie-ins I flipped about being smothered. However, in practice these "tie-in's" so far haven't been parts to one story but more like books running along the same theme. The Initiative is a direction for books and not exactly a core story; many books go in various directions on this route. So far overall it has been positive; the aftermath of CW has in many ways produced more than the event itself.

WWH is more of a classic "Part X of Y" type event. Admittedly, I still think it is too soon, barely 4 months of a rest, but delaying WWH may not work. I just am wary of seeing Hulk bullstorm into a book like Avengers: Initiative when it is so young, but at least Slott apparently planned on it when he pitched it. It just seems fruitless. Technically Hulk COULD be stopped with their new SPIN tech, but he can't be, because this is a tie-in and he can only be defeated in the core mini (if at all, depending on the story). Therefore it just is going to amount to Hulk tearing through the fresh program and getting notches on his belt and I really am skeptical as to the point. Whereas with, say, GHOST RIDER, I can understand perfectly well why they are having a tie-in; GR is a moderate seller at best and they need a spike. But, obviously, Ghost Rider can't beat Hulk there so it is almost predictable; he will get his arse kicked and then move on. Lord know Hulkamaniacs are rapid as it is without needing extra proof of Hulk running into random books and beating down people. Still, I guess I can't really complain as I am skipping the event proper and just am getting whatever tie-in's are in books I collect. So in that way it feels like an obligatory title-wave, sort of like INFINITY WARS during the 90's when Magus' random evil dopplegangers would show up in every damn book known to man, before moving on.

- Joe eases the fear of single issues going the way of the dinosaur, noting that direct market sales are larger now than when he took over some 7 years ago. Thankfully, also, is that less writers are writing in "6 issue or bust" trade style than 2-3 years ago.

- A question is asked about the status quo of certain characters left in Shi'ar space at the end of Brubaker's "RISE AND FALL OF THE SHI'AR EMPIRE" arc from Uncanny X-Men. Joe merrily announces a mini. Now, I am reaching semi-ignorance territory as I haven't done much more than flip through some of Bru's UXM stuff. But it seems to me that judging from internet reactions, he has a bit of a problem with his run here in that he cannot deliver a definitive ending. DEADLY GENESIS, which I did read, was disappointing not only because of the random death of Banshee and the mind-boggling retcons one has to accept to even begin to insert god-moder Vulcan into the series, but that it basically ends with a "would you be interested in a year of Bru on UXM" and not an actual end to that story? To that end, a year of Brubaker's arc on UXM, and in the beginning reviews were positive, feeling he meshed single-issue stories with moving the arc along, but about halfway through many said things drug. My understanding of the ending is that it, again, wasn't really an ending as it merely set up yet ANOTHER story in which Vulcan is now Emperor of the Shi'ar (after wanting revenge on them) and some of the more expendable X-Men are Starjammers now. It seems like one train of stories after the other without any sort of bookend, satisfying climax and resolution; 18 issues of material is a lot of patience for readers and moving it to 24+ seems mind-boggling. Especially since the Shi'ar have pretty much been overdone to death and barely are interesting anymore. They're just generic aliens, bare bones clones of Klingons in some ways. Between this and M-Day, it seems like the past year or so have moved quite a bit away from the supposed "purpose" of the X-Men. Granted, said purpose has been muddy for quite a while. They're more of a franchise than a series that means something anymore. Anyway, someone needs to tell Bru & Co. that Vulcan is hardly the next Magneto, and to stick a pin in it eventually.

To finish things off, Joe Q teases X-Fans with a rumor that Cyclops will die...again. I doubt it, but I can't see this jazzing anyone. Part of the problem is that X-Universe is almost as cyclical and self-cannibilizing of old ideas than the DCU.

-

Q: dorknerdgeek 06-01-2007 03:03 PM

I keep seeing a dirty rumor that Ant-Man is slated to get the axe. Say it ain't so Joe!

JQ: Hey, dorknerdgeek, I hear dirty rumors all the time but they never involve Ant-Man. Somehow they all involve Tom Brevoort and his old Marvel action figures, but I’m not going to go there.

That's a marvelous non-answer, isn't it? How about some reality. The reality is that as of mid to late 2006 or so, every new launch book seems to get 12 issues, or a year, to prove it can sell. This is actually more time than even 2-4 years ago, when if a book didn't sell beyond the Top 85-95 within 4-6 months, it was axed. So in a way there has been some leniancy with new books, as even BLADE or NEXTWAVE, which fell down the sales charts almost immediately, made it to issue #12. IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN is an incredible unique, charming, and entertaining book that I dare say is Kirkman's best Marvel work ever, even better than MTU was. It sells well below the Top 100, around #131 or so. That is about as poorly as many Image books. Tie-ins to MIGHTY AVENGERS haven't helped so I really don't see this lasting beyond issue #12. However, issue #11 has been solicted. The facts are that THE THING was one of the last ongoings to get axed before it saw #12, as Marvel has become more lenient of new blood titles since then. However, the outlook does not look good. Which is a damn shame because I love ANT-MAN.

- Poster qnetter revives the notion that Marvel is somehow against gay characters, from RUNAWAYS/YOUNG AVENGERS #3-4. My issue here is that mini is nearly a year old and reviving the debate seems silly. My second issue is that I agree with Joe Q here, who makes an excellent point that if they start treating certain characters with kid-gloves in stories because of their sexual orientation or race, or handicap, then it becomes a sliding slope. Thirdy, those like qnetter missed a crucial point of R/YA #3-4; the characters placed in peril and captured by the Warden of The Cube were taken mostly because of their connection to alien life forms, which The Cube was created to apprehend and study (and dissect, as they have no real Earth rights). Karolina, who may be a lesbian, is also an alien, and so is Xavin (whose sexuality shifts with his form; he is as close to gender neutral as you can get). Hulkling, who is homosexual, is the son of aliens, Mar-Vell (Kree) and the Skrull princess. There's Wiccan, who is an earth born mutant, true, but he was defeated by Marvel-Boy and the Warden wasn't just about to leave him there in the grass because he wasn't an alien. Their capture had more to do with their genetic orientation than sexual. It would be like if a Sentinal happened to kill some homosexual mutants; the Sentinal is out to off mutants, regardless of who they sleep with. This issue is a real case of a mountain out of a molehill and a controveray where none exists.

Besides, where are these people when Freedom Ring got offed? Here was an openly gay superhero who basically died due to ridiculous overconfidence and incompetance. But I guess because he died in a lower selling book and had no fanbase, he doesn't matter, right? It reminds me of activists who protest and scream bloody murder about "Gitmo", but are silent when proof is found of Al-Queda torture. It's hypocricy.

Quite honestly, if you are the type of fan who gets into a rage at seeing characters belonging to minority or classically oppressed status get mangled, where are the flashlights on DC? Over the past 2 years they have had far more graphically violent acts against women than Marvel has, including this week, from a comic I like,

Spoiler

where Zatanna is LITERALLY shot in the throat by the Joker, blood gushing everywhere.

H4H covers can't compare to being tortured with power drills or being chained spread-eagle and then stabbed through the chest.

-

Q: darmstr745 06-02-2007 06:21 AM

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it stated a while back that if there was a crossover with the regular Marvel Universe and the Ultimate Universe, then Marvel would official be out of ideas?

With the crossover of the Marvel Zombies with Black Panther and having the Ultimate Doctor Doom inhabiting the Zombieverse, doesn't that move a potential crossover of the Ultimate Universe with the Marvel Universe closer to occurring?

What are your thoughts on this Joe?

JQ: My thoughts are that while the potential is there, it hasn’t happened has it? I mean speaking in the broadest of terms, a crossover between the Universes is as close as you want to envision it since these places are all just made up. Just because Doctor Doom may be walking around in Zombieverse at the same time as T’Challa, really doesn’t get us any closer or further than any other time, the potential, rather the temptation is always there, but there are absolutely no plans to have a crossover of Universes.

Also, even if Ultimate Doctor Doom where to shake Black Panthers hand, this would just be a shake between characters from two different, parallel universes, not the first time this has happened in the Marvel U, and very, very far from a Universe crossover in the traditional sense. While perhaps a watershed moment to us the reader, to these characters it’s no different than meeting another character from an alternate Universe which is a pretty standard contrivance in comic books.

Joe, you are being called and you can't backtrack from your words now. If Ultimate Dr. Doom met 616 T'Challa in the Marvel Zombieverse, it is a crossover. DC had Capt. Atom visit the Wildstorm verse and called it what it was. If it happens, just cop to it. Really, half the anger comes from Joe being stubborn about admitting the obvious and playing the "I can fool the audience because they are dumb money-sacks" game.

The Ultimate universe as it is, is in a bit of a lull due to being stripmined of a lot of it's innovations and creators, and with the editorial energy on 616. I do doubt a crossover mini event would happen, though, namely because Joe hates that stuff at DC. But if there was a smaller crossover, call it what it is.

- I actually read the last FOOLKILLER from about 15 years ago and it was pretty good, wondering what this new MAX series will be like. Will it have Foolkiller II, who was supposedly sprung from the Raft, or a newbie?

- I find WATCHMEN more of a definitive work than DARK KNIGHT. It not only has a great story, but a complete, untold mastery of the comic book medium, from panel construction to scene shifts to saving reveals for page-turns, there is a reason it is taught in college courses.

-

Q: Blaqstar 06-03-2007 06:03 PM

Joe if you could put the genie back into the bottle at the Distinguish Competition what would that be?

JQ: Now you see, Blaqstar, you’re just trying to get me into trouble.

To be honest, I’m not as verse in DC continuity as I use to be when I was reading their books back after they did their first of many Crisis(es), so it would be unfair for me to really comment on it. So, while I can’t speak of genies being placed back in bottles, I can speak globally as I have in the past about looking at their major icons and trying to redefine them for a modern and future audience. I’m not saying this is easy to do, if it were, I suspect the folks at DC would have tried to do it long ago, but when you deal with characters as monolithic as Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, I’m sure that corporately you have many masters that have to be appeased.

But, if I were in charge and if I didn’t have the constraints that I assume are placed upon editorial and these characters on a corporate level, I would take a cold hard look at the big guns, the aforementioned three plus others like Green Lantern and Flash and try to take what still works and retool them for future readers. This is of course the type of thing that would have long time readers in a tizzy but would have to be attempted for the good of the characters and the industry as a whole.

But hey, what do I know?

I just find this an interesting answer, now that whatever surge DC had with IC is officially over and even their fans are losing patience with DiDio, eating him alive for many shifts. I would say my "genie" with DC is that it not only relies on old ideas, but does them the same old way, just with better art and pacing then a generation ago. They also use the universe overhaul to shift continuity to whatever they want, which has the side effect of having almost nothing matter. It seems they are chasing trends vs. setting any these days. But I'm an outsider, and may be wrong.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Between this and M-Day, it seems like the past year or so have moved quite a bit away from the supposed "purpose" of the X-Men. Granted, said purpose has been muddy for quite a while. They're more of a franchise than a series that means something anymore. Anyway, someone needs to tell Bru & Co. that Vulcan is hardly the next Magneto, and to stick a pin in it eventually.

Brubaker isn't writing the miniseries; Christ Yost is. Yeah, the story had a bit of a non-ending, but the new arc is actually focussed directly on the situation of mutants (as is the whole upcoming 'Endangered Species' sorta-crossover and its successor).

It reminds me of activists who protest and scream bloody murder about "Gitmo", but are silent when proof is found of Al-Queda torture. It's hypocricy.

Eh, not really. Everyone knows that Al-Qaeda is a collection of murderous fanatics; moreover, protesting would never accomplish anything, whereas citizens in a democratic society have a chance and an obligation to see to the actions of their own government.

 

[Dread]

Brubaker isn't writing the miniseries; Christ Yost is. Yeah, the story had a bit of a non-ending, but the new arc is actually focussed directly on the situation of mutants (as is the whole upcoming 'Endangered Species' sorta-crossover and its successor).

I figured Brubaker was not writing the mini. Glad you see my point.

Eh, not really. Everyone knows that Al-Qaeda is a collection of murderous fanatics; moreover, protesting would never accomplish anything, whereas citizens in a democratic society have a chance and an obligation to see to the actions of their own government.

[pointless rant]

Spoiler

But the thing is, Al-Qaeda ironically knows how to manipulate our media better than we do, as a means of warfare. America is divided. They are not. It is hypocrisy because it overexaggerates some sins and glosses over larger ones committed by others because, "oh, terrorists will be terrorists". It's a game of moral equality (assuming all bad acts are equal) that doesn't wash. The "I won't steep as low as my enemy" works in fiction but not in real life. In wars, the side that has the will to win wins.

If you had to fear being lynched in the street for slugging someone, but got to watch a mass murdering gang-member go scott free for his crimes in the eyes of the media because "thugs will be thugs, but we expect more of you", you'd feel it was unfair.

At Gitmo, all of the inmates gain 10 lbs, have multiple lawyers, and even interrogations stop so they can face Mecca and pray. Al-Queada decapitates POW's on live video and literally has pamphlets about how to break arms, use power drills or gouge eyes. But, terrorists will be terrorists. If we just leave them alone they'll all leave us alone. Bush overexaggerated the threat yet isn't protecting us enough from the threat he exaggerates. And so on. I'm no fan of Bush (the man is horribly inept in many areas and is a terrible judge of character), but I am not a fan of believing nasty people back down by appeasing them. History proves otherwise. I hope the next President handles all this better.

[/pointless rant]

 

[Harlekin]

Dread: There actually was quite a hubbub about the Freedom Ring death as well.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

50 weeks of JF's/NJF's; that's almost a year's worth of interviews with argueably the biggest man in Western comics right now (as Marvel pretty much swamps DC month after month). I usually am hard, negative, and borderline obsessive when it comes to commenting on Joe's statements here, but this week there will be positives. Seriously!

- The thing starts off with a bang with NEWSARAMA asking a good question; seriously, despite some off weeks, NEWSARAMA doesn't coddle Joe Q and either asks him some decent questions or allows internet fans to do so; not nearly the back-rubbing tripe of the average WIZARD interview. They basically assert that with Iron Man's film a year away and the character now at the center of controversay for his hardline approaches, some sort of "redemption" arc is inevitable. They suggest WWH may be part of it; what better way to prove all of his "sins" during CW were with it if he & the Initiative can save the world from an invasion of aliens led by The Hulk? Joe Q naturally was coy, but here are the words I wanted to highlight:



This is about the closest he's gotten to admitting that while Joe Q & Marvel's editorial board claims to "plan" everything they do in advance, things change, and sometimes there are bungles or alterations. Despite what everyone says, CIVIL WAR bore signs of last minute rewrites, because I can't believe an original draft would have been so full of distractions. And then there was the whole "kill Gravity & make him the new Capt. Marvel/WHOOPS! we want to actually revive THE Mar-Vell/now we have to bring back Gravity and bend over backwards to insert him just as he was, sorta" from McDuffie's BEYOND/NFF and the editors. It's not an outright admission of these sorts of quibbles, but it's rather close. It is a fair explanation from his position. It just is a shame that sometimes professionals can't seem to avoid errors that some of the audience wouldn't be caught dead making on a MB.

- Joe Q notes that part of the price one pays with Dan Slott's AVENGERS: INITIATIVE being upgraded to ongoing is some decompression; originally in his draft for 6 issues, the WWH tie-in would only be 1 issue; now it is two, which delays a certain part of the story to later issues. However, this allows Slott to stretch out some bits and add more. As A:I is usually packed to the gills with story and characters, I can forgive some decompression. Hell, more's still happened there than in a few issues of NEW AVENGERS (3 issues in the same scene; it's just like manga, only more pretentious!).

At this point I think I need to make a statement retracting certain things I said/feared about "The Initiative" when it was first launched. Initially coming off a 50+ part CW event, when I saw that The Initiative would have almost as many tie-ins I flipped about being smothered. However, in practice these "tie-in's" so far haven't been parts to one story but more like books running along the same theme. The Initiative is a direction for books and not exactly a core story; many books go in various directions on this route. So far overall it has been positive; the aftermath of CW has in many ways produced more than the event itself.

WWH is more of a classic "Part X of Y" type event. Admittedly, I still think it is too soon, barely 4 months of a rest, but delaying WWH may not work. I just am wary of seeing Hulk bullstorm into a book like Avengers: Initiative when it is so young, but at least Slott apparently planned on it when he pitched it. It just seems fruitless. Technically Hulk COULD be stopped with their new SPIN tech, but he can't be, because this is a tie-in and he can only be defeated in the core mini (if at all, depending on the story). Therefore it just is going to amount to Hulk tearing through the fresh program and getting notches on his belt and I really am skeptical as to the point. Whereas with, say, GHOST RIDER, I can understand perfectly well why they are having a tie-in; GR is a moderate seller at best and they need a spike. But, obviously, Ghost Rider can't beat Hulk there so it is almost predictable; he will get his arse kicked and then move on. Lord know Hulkamaniacs are rapid as it is without needing extra proof of Hulk running into random books and beating down people. Still, I guess I can't really complain as I am skipping the event proper and just am getting whatever tie-in's are in books I collect. So in that way it feels like an obligatory title-wave, sort of like INFINITY WARS during the 90's when Magus' random evil dopplegangers would show up in every damn book known to man, before moving on.

- Joe eases the fear of single issues going the way of the dinosaur, noting that direct market sales are larger now than when he took over some 7 years ago. Thankfully, also, is that less writers are writing in "6 issue or bust" trade style than 2-3 years ago.

- A question is asked about the status quo of certain characters left in Shi'ar space at the end of Brubaker's "RISE AND FALL OF THE SHI'AR EMPIRE" arc from Uncanny X-Men. Joe merrily announces a mini. Now, I am reaching semi-ignorance territory as I haven't done much more than flip through some of Bru's UXM stuff. But it seems to me that judging from internet reactions, he has a bit of a problem with his run here in that he cannot deliver a definitive ending. DEADLY GENESIS, which I did read, was disappointing not only because of the random death of Banshee and the mind-boggling retcons one has to accept to even begin to insert god-moder Vulcan into the series, but that it basically ends with a "would you be interested in a year of Bru on UXM" and not an actual end to that story? To that end, a year of Brubaker's arc on UXM, and in the beginning reviews were positive, feeling he meshed single-issue stories with moving the arc along, but about halfway through many said things drug. My understanding of the ending is that it, again, wasn't really an ending as it merely set up yet ANOTHER story in which Vulcan is now Emperor of the Shi'ar (after wanting revenge on them) and some of the more expendable X-Men are Starjammers now. It seems like one train of stories after the other without any sort of bookend, satisfying climax and resolution; 18 issues of material is a lot of patience for readers and moving it to 24+ seems mind-boggling. Especially since the Shi'ar have pretty much been overdone to death and barely are interesting anymore. They're just generic aliens, bare bones clones of Klingons in some ways. Between this and M-Day, it seems like the past year or so have moved quite a bit away from the supposed "purpose" of the X-Men. Granted, said purpose has been muddy for quite a while. They're more of a franchise than a series that means something anymore. Anyway, someone needs to tell Bru & Co. that Vulcan is hardly the next Magneto, and to stick a pin in it eventually.

To finish things off, Joe Q teases X-Fans with a rumor that Cyclops will die...again. I doubt it, but I can't see this jazzing anyone. Part of the problem is that X-Universe is almost as cyclical and self-cannibilizing of old ideas than the DCU.

-

That's a marvelous non-answer, isn't it? How about some reality. The reality is that as of mid to late 2006 or so, every new launch book seems to get 12 issues, or a year, to prove it can sell. This is actually more time than even 2-4 years ago, when if a book didn't sell beyond the Top 85-95 within 4-6 months, it was axed. So in a way there has been some leniancy with new books, as even BLADE or NEXTWAVE, which fell down the sales charts almost immediately, made it to issue #12. IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN is an incredible unique, charming, and entertaining book that I dare say is Kirkman's best Marvel work ever, even better than MTU was. It sells well below the Top 100, around #131 or so. That is about as poorly as many Image books. Tie-ins to MIGHTY AVENGERS haven't helped so I really don't see this lasting beyond issue #12. However, issue #11 has been solicted. The facts are that THE THING was one of the last ongoings to get axed before it saw #12, as Marvel has become more lenient of new blood titles since then. However, the outlook does not look good. Which is a damn shame because I love ANT-MAN.

- Poster qnetter revives the notion that Marvel is somehow against gay characters, from RUNAWAYS/YOUNG AVENGERS #3-4. My issue here is that mini is nearly a year old and reviving the debate seems silly. My second issue is that I agree with Joe Q here, who makes an excellent point that if they start treating certain characters with kid-gloves in stories because of their sexual orientation or race, or handicap, then it becomes a sliding slope. Thirdy, those like qnetter missed a crucial point of R/YA #3-4; the characters placed in peril and captured by the Warden of The Cube were taken mostly because of their connection to alien life forms, which The Cube was created to apprehend and study (and dissect, as they have no real Earth rights). Karolina, who may be a lesbian, is also an alien, and so is Xavin (whose sexuality shifts with his form; he is as close to gender neutral as you can get). Hulkling, who is homosexual, is the son of aliens, Mar-Vell (Kree) and the Skrull princess. There's Wiccan, who is an earth born mutant, true, but he was defeated by Marvel-Boy and the Warden wasn't just about to leave him there in the grass because he wasn't an alien. Their capture had more to do with their genetic orientation than sexual. It would be like if a Sentinal happened to kill some homosexual mutants; the Sentinal is out to off mutants, regardless of who they sleep with. This issue is a real case of a mountain out of a molehill and a controveray where none exists.

Besides, where are these people when Freedom Ring got offed? Here was an openly gay superhero who basically died due to ridiculous overconfidence and incompetance. But I guess because he died in a lower selling book and had no fanbase, he doesn't matter, right? It reminds me of activists who protest and scream bloody murder about "Gitmo", but are silent when proof is found of Al-Queda torture. It's hypocricy.

Quite honestly, if you are the type of fan who gets into a rage at seeing characters belonging to minority or classically oppressed status get mangled, where are the flashlights on DC? Over the past 2 years they have had far more graphically violent acts against women than Marvel has, including this week, from a comic I like,

Spoiler

where Zatanna is LITERALLY shot in the throat by the Joker, blood gushing everywhere.

H4H covers can't compare to being tortured with power drills or being chained spread-eagle and then stabbed through the chest.

-

Joe, you are being called and you can't backtrack from your words now. If Ultimate Dr. Doom met 616 T'Challa in the Marvel Zombieverse, it is a crossover. DC had Capt. Atom visit the Wildstorm verse and called it what it was. If it happens, just cop to it. Really, half the anger comes from Joe being stubborn about admitting the obvious and playing the "I can fool the audience because they are dumb money-sacks" game.

The Ultimate universe as it is, is in a bit of a lull due to being stripmined of a lot of it's innovations and creators, and with the editorial energy on 616. I do doubt a crossover mini event would happen, though, namely because Joe hates that stuff at DC. But if there was a smaller crossover, call it what it is.

- I actually read the last FOOLKILLER from about 15 years ago and it was pretty good, wondering what this new MAX series will be like. Will it have Foolkiller II, who was supposedly sprung from the Raft, or a newbie?

- I find WATCHMEN more of a definitive work than DARK KNIGHT. It not only has a great story, but a complete, untold mastery of the comic book medium, from panel construction to scene shifts to saving reveals for page-turns, there is a reason it is taught in college courses.

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I just find this an interesting answer, now that whatever surge DC had with IC is officially over and even their fans are losing patience with DiDio, eating him alive for many shifts. I would say my "genie" with DC is that it not only relies on old ideas, but does them the same old way, just with better art and pacing then a generation ago. They also use the universe overhaul to shift continuity to whatever they want, which has the side effect of having almost nothing matter. It seems they are chasing trends vs. setting any these days. But I'm an outsider, and may be wrong.

I dont know if you're wrong or not, but you certainly seemed obsessed with letting everyone know that Marvel is ahead of DC for some reason...