No Time To Die (Bond 25)

[Aximili86]

I don't think they're necessarily too concerned with where a director comes from. An American directing Bond isn't a problem.

Should probably keep the actors to British or "British hillbillies" (as Robin Williams would say), heh. British or colonials (non-American colonials), not sure a Swede or an Italian or whatever would fly, even if they spoke perfect English and could pull off a flawless accent.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2018/03/16/danny-boyle-promises-bond-girl-reflect-metoo-era/

This film will reflect the me too era, apparently. If that means better treatment of women than the last two film, with their appalling use of Monica Bellucci, Berenice and Naomi Harris (in Skyfall), then I am all for it.

 

[TheVileOne]

How was the use of Naomie Harris appalling in Skyfall?

 

[chamber-music]

Berenice Marlohe's character in Skyfall is the only Bond girl of Craig's era that I'v heard people complain about a lot.

Sean Connery's Bond was super rapey by modern standards.

 

[Frankeh]

So that should rule out a return of Madeleine, yes? In fact since this script is an idea of Boyle and Hodge I'm thinking it's not a continuation of Spectre's plot (which is likely the basis of the Purvis and Wade script).

I'm glad because I like new Bond girls for every movie.

 

[Loki882]

How was the use of Naomie Harris appalling in Skyfall?

While I don't really agree with it, the reasoning is that the whole "arc" for Moneypenny (whom they race-bended in the fil as well) is essentially "she can't cut it as a field agent, so she becomes the secretary for the new M, whose a White dude."

I think that Judi Dench's M and Severine both being killed off in the same movie probably didn't help matters for some.

So I can understand that complaint, even if I don't necessarily share it.

But yeah, Berenice and Monica's usage in Skyfall and Spectre, on the other hand, those I cannot and will not defend.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Boyle doesn't really say that it's going to reflect Me Too lol


There's quite a leap between him saying his story will reflect the modern times and it specifically dealing with the current movement. Typical click bait ****.

 

[Black Narcissus]

How was the use of Naomie Harris appalling in Skyfall?

Not appalling, but a disappointment. She is such a badass in the intro and then she just ends up picking up calls and making tea, which is what the original moneypenny did, but she wasn't set up like a badass. It would be like making Ilsa from MI into an assistant or whatever. lol

 

[Roose Bolton]

I suppose it kind of gets into the argument that Moneypenny is an irrelevant character in our modern world.

But then again, if you go down that rabbit hole then it brings up the constant question of whether these films are relevant at all in this day and age. Something people have been harping on about since 1989.

 

[Dark Raven]

Not appalling, but a disappointment. She is such a badass in the intro and then she just ends up picking up calls and making tea, which is what the original moneypenny did, but she wasn't set up like a badass. It would be like making Ilsa from MI into an assistant or whatever. lol

Maybe Rebecca Ferguson will be Tom Cruise's secretary in the next instalment.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Maybe Rebecca Ferguson will be Tom Cruise's secretary in the next instalment.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

How was the use of Naomie Harris appalling in Skyfall?

Woman can't cut it in the field. Shoots the man in the chest instead of the person she was aiming for. The man comes back to finish the job she couldn't. She ends up taking a desk job as a secretary. All of this in a film about how the old ways used to be better. Then take into account their treatment of Berenice.

It's just weird. This film Skyfall. Sam Mendes made this film shortly after his divorce. I wonder if some bitterness, however subconscious, made it into the film.

 

[Silvermoth]

I must admit, some of that did make me stop last time. I'm sure Boyle will do great stuff with naome, after all they worked together so well on 28 days later

 

[Roose Bolton]

Woman can't cut it in the field. Shoots the man in the chest instead of the person she was aiming for. The man comes back to finish the job she couldn't. She ends up taking a desk job as a secretary. All of this in a film about how the old ways used to be better. Then take into account their treatment of Berenice.

It's just weird. This film Skyfall. Sam Mendes made this film shortly after his divorce. I wonder if some bitterness, however subconscious, made it into the film.

And yet in the same token this is the same film where Judi Dench's M is shown as the most important person in Bond's life. It doesn't present her as without flaws, but I think most people came away from the film with the understanding that it's a celebration of M as a character, to the extent that she's often referred to as that film's true "Bond Girl".

Plus, for as much as people might like to give Spectre ****, it does show Moneypenny as one of the few people Bond can truly trust and she's fairly active in the finale. So I don't know if I'm prepared to damn Sam Mendes' views on women or Moneypenny's role in the rebooted era.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

And yet in the same token this is the same film where Judi Dench's M is shown as the most important person in Bond's life. It doesn't present her as without flaws, but I think most people came away from the film with the understanding that it's a celebration of M as a character, to the extent that she's often referred to as that film's true "Bond Girl".

She is also replaced by a male M. In the same room Bernard Lee used to operate on. With nostalgic paintings of triumph and stuff.

Plus, for as much as people might like to give Spectre ****, it does show Moneypenny as one of the few people Bond can truly trust and she's fairly active in the finale. So I don't know if I'm prepared to damn Sam Mendes' views on women or Moneypenny's role in the rebooted era.

Her role does go from questionable to alright. True.

 

[TheVileOne]

Not appalling, but a disappointment. She is such a badass in the intro and then she just ends up picking up calls and making tea, which is what the original moneypenny did, but she wasn't set up like a badass. It would be like making Ilsa from MI into an assistant or whatever. lol

I mean we see her defending all those stuffed shirt bureaucrats from terrorists. Was that not badass?

Also, just because she decided not to stay as a field agent doesn't make her less of a person. I'd hardly call that appalling.

She is also replaced by a male M. In the same room Bernard Lee used to operate on. With nostalgic paintings of triumph and stuff.

So basically you are saying the subtext is that M was a lesser M because she was a woman and Mallory is the true M because Sam Mendes hates women and hated the idea of M being a woman?

 

[TheVileOne]

Woman can't cut it in the field. Shoots the man in the chest instead of the person she was aiming for. The man comes back to finish the job she couldn't. She ends up taking a desk job as a secretary. All of this in a film about how the old ways used to be better. Then take into account their treatment of Berenice.

It's just weird. This film Skyfall. Sam Mendes made this film shortly after his divorce. I wonder if some bitterness, however subconscious, made it into the film.

Sort of reaching a lot. Especially considering that we see Moneypenny going back out to the field to help Bond and we also see her taking up a gun to defend the politicians.

Not a single person called it appalling in 2012. I was disappointed with Berenice Marlohe's character and how she was used especially after how much hype she got.

Let's all stop playing revisionist history for Skyfall and stop pretending it wasn't hailed as one of the best James Bond films ever.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/skyfall

 

[Black Narcissus]

Casino Royale is still the only great Bond Craig movie for me. The rest are just ok to meh.

 

[Schlosser85]

Woman can't cut it in the field. Shoots the man in the chest instead of the person she was aiming for. The man comes back to finish the job she couldn't. She ends up taking a desk job as a secretary. All of this in a film about how the old ways used to be better. Then take into account their treatment of Berenice.

It's just weird. This film Skyfall. Sam Mendes made this film shortly after his divorce. I wonder if some bitterness, however subconscious, made it into the film.

This, IMO, is seriously really, really ridiculous.

Skyfall totally revamps Moneypenny into this bad-ash field agent who gets in on the action not just at the beginning, but also later in the courthouse shootout. She and M---both women---are among the very, very few people Bond actually trusts, and she never sleeps with Bond. It gives by far the most depth of any Bond movie to both M's character and her relationship with Bond.

Also how does the shot at the beginning prove Moneypenny is incompetent in the field? She warns M that she doesn't have a clear shot, and M orders her to take it anyway. She doesn't really do anything wrong (besides unfortunately miss a shot she forewarned her superiors wasn't clean in the first place).

And it's made pretty obvious the "old ways being better" is a reference to the old-fashioned spy methods and hands-on espionage which both Silva and the hearing chairwoman deride as outdated and quaint, not anything to do with treatment of women. This is spelled out in the movie like a hundred times.

Seriously, just.... .

 

[TheVileOne]

Back to the Future is racist because a white man inspires Chuck Barry to invent Rock and Roll.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Back to the Future is racist because a white man inspires Chuck Barry to invent Rock and Roll.

Sure is.

You also had Elvis take his moves from Little Richard, but that is another story.

 

[The Batman]

Back to the Future is racist because a white man inspires Chuck Barry to invent Rock and Roll.

It may not necessarily be racist, but it is definitely insulting to Chuck Berry, IMO.

 

[Mysteryman]

This, IMO, is seriously really, really ridiculous.

Skyfall totally revamps Moneypenny into this bad-ash field agent who gets in on the action not just at the beginning, but also later in the courthouse shootout. She and M---both women---are among the very, very few people Bond actually trusts, and she never sleeps with Bond. It gives by far the most depth of any Bond movie to both M's character and her relationship with Bond.

Also how does the shot at the beginning prove Moneypenny is incompetent in the field? She warns M that she doesn't have a clear shot, and M orders her to take it anyway. She doesn't really do anything wrong (besides unfortunately miss a shot she forewarned her superiors wasn't clean in the first place).

And it's made pretty obvious the "old ways being better" is a reference to the old-fashioned spy methods and hands-on espionage which both Silva and the hearing chairwoman deride as outdated and quaint, not anything to do with treatment of women. This is spelled out in the movie like a hundred times.

Seriously, just.... .

Glad somebody called out this ridiculousness.
Good Job Schlosser85!

 

[Roose Bolton]

She is also replaced by a male M. In the same room Bernard Lee used to operate on. With nostalgic paintings of triumph and stuff.

So....you dislike Bernard Lee?

 

[Loki882]

And yet in the same token this is the same film where Judi Dench's M is shown as the most important person in Bond's life. It doesn't present her as without flaws, but I think most people came away from the film with the understanding that it's a celebration of M as a character, to the extent that she's often referred to as that film's true "Bond Girl".

Plus, for as much as people might like to give Spectre ****, it does show Moneypenny as one of the few people Bond can truly trust and she's fairly active in the finale. So I don't know if I'm prepared to damn Sam Mendes' views on women or Moneypenny's role in the rebooted era.

Yeah but the thing about Judi Dench there was that her entire point in that movie is "wow, she screwed up bad, lost a list that had all of the Western undercover agents identities on it, a bunch them died as a consequence, she got fired essentially, and then she dies at the hands of a villain who's a villain because of a mistake that she made years ago. Oh and she's not even a good shot either apparently."

And then she gets replaced by a white dude.

The use of M in that movie was, mixed, to say the least.

And as for Moneypenny in Spectre, she doesn't really do much of note there though. I mean even in the "Bonds pals help him out" climax, M and Q do the lion's share of the work. Her and Tanner as mostly just along for the ride so to speak.