Noble Kale Origin Story

FlameHead

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No, it's not happening.

I just wanted to start a discussion about it because it's something that I'd really like to see. We've only been told about the Spirit of Vengeance in back story but, I'd really like to know how it began. More about Noble Kale, more about the bloodline, more about the origin of Ghost Rider. The real origin of the Spirit of Vengeance.

Anybody with me?
 
I hated the whole Noble Kale angle. I thought it was horrendous & stupid. It prompted me to drop the book. I was so happy when Mackie undid that part of the storyline.
 
I actually stopped reading the story the isssue the Noble Kale story began (76, when Vengeance gave Rider his own Penance Stare). I had no idea where it was leading, but the comic left me feeling empty. Little did I know that when I decided to get issues 77 - 93, I wouldn't feel any better about it.

I was not a big fan of the Kale story as it seemed to an already convoluted origin series with the Medallions, how Blaze/Ketch/Baldallino all were able to carry the spirit, yet only Ketch held the spirit.

God, I hate the Links to the Past (or what ever that series of issues was called) and Seige of Darkness.
 
I'm ashamed to even think about it. Although Ivan Velez Jr had good intentions, initially, I think the Noble Kale origins was a bit far fetched, and his god awful costume that was drawn by an X-men / Manga'ish artist looked goofy. The yellow and red just reminded me of Ronald Mcdonald rather than the Spirit of Vengeance.

I enjoyed his Vengeance "No Penance" story, the Snowblind and Hellgate interlude, but everything passed that mark was just ridiculously far from the Ghost Rider I was used to reading.
 
The story of the Medallion of Power was much more interesting. I enjoyed the story of the Blood, the ancient wars and battles, the original Midnight Sons, and their quest to destroy Zarathos.

Zarathos itself is an ancient word, derived from Zarathustra, the Persian Prophet of Zarastrianism. They were known as the "Fire Worshippers" Fire in their philosophy was purifying.

The Asian philosophy angle would have been great. In Persian, Central Asian & Arab tradition there are stories of 'Jinn" or those elemental people made of 'smokeless' fire who live among us but we are unable to see them. They can bring an omen of death, even an omen of vengeance, and can be known to possess human bodies and cause them to do supernatural things. Some were aligned with the devil (ie. Zarathos), and others aligned with mankind (Spirits of Vengeance).

So many ancient battles have been fought in the Steppes of Central Asia. Ancient battles between the different Scythians, their panthenon of different Gods, and relationships with ancient kingdoms. This is where the first horses were domesticated and used in warfare, and the original Midnight Sons did have horses, swords, and bows. Its where the writer of Conan even got his material for many of Conans adventures.

Even the story of the "Patriarch" makes more sense in this part of the world, most tribes had a patriarchal structure, and the culture of the blood, and blood affiliation & loyalty would fit into the mythos of the Scythians and their descendants across Asia. In some Central Asian languages, the local word for Scythians - Sakai, means a BLOOD relative.

Fire in essence in the Zarastrian thought is a purifier, and I think the Penance Stare, being the hellfire unleashed to the soul made perfect sense.

I think the history of Ghost Rider and a slight resemblance to real history is much more interesting than a story of a wussy son cursed by a gypsy.

I could write a whole history on the Spirit of Vengeance character based on just the word Zarathos alone!
 
Midnyte_Sun said:
I'm ashamed to even think about it. Although Ivan Velez Jr had good intentions, initially, I think the Noble Kale origins was a bit far fetched, and his god awful costume that was drawn by an X-men / Manga'ish artist looked goofy. The yellow and red just reminded me of Ronald Mcdonald rather than the Spirit of Vengeance.

I enjoyed his Vengeance "No Penance" story, the Snowblind and Hellgate interlude, but everything passed that mark was just ridiculously far from the Ghost Rider I was used to reading.
This is why I dropped the book. It was a total contradiction to everything that had come before it & it was stupid.:ghost:
 
Midnyte_Sun said:
I could write a whole history on the Spirit of Vengeance character based on just the word Zarathos alone!

Zarathos is not a Spirit of Vengeance. He's just a demon.
 
FlameHead said:
Zarathos is not a Spirit of Vengeance. He's just a demon.

Zarathos was described as the Hell´s Prison Guard. He keeps the worst souls in the Nether Realms locked.
He was the worst amongst the worst.
As a punishment for been so bad, the Devil bonded him with JB as a "Spirit of Vengeance".
 
Just a demon was harsh. Zarathos is one powerful mo'fo, I know. I'm just saying that the true 'Spirit of Vengeance' is the one passed down from generation to generation. Yes, Zarathos was purposly confused as the SOV by Mephisto but, not a true SOV. SOB yes, SOV no.
 
I stopped reading before the whole Noble Kale storyline, but from what I read it sounds awful. I prefer the Zarathos origin.
 

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