The Dark Knight Now that the Nolan Brothers Are Writing...

[The Last Meatbag]

I dont really know how to explain it, it just seemed like he didnt have the same bad ash presence he's had in the comics and in TAS, basically like the "you could throw a punch at me right now and Ill take you down kinda attitude" he just seemed like he was just too pissy and stuff.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

But when it sounds painfully forced, it loses it's "tough" factor and just sounds ridiculous.

It didn't sound forced, though. I'm not even sure what that means. I've heard it a billion times since I joined this board and I can never read it without snorting. "Forced." It's a buzzword like "wooden" acting and "bad editing" and stuff like that. People say these words but they don't even know what they mean, if they mean anything.

If Bale's Batman voice has a fault, it's that it sometimes sounds uneven. Most noticeably, on the train when the tracks are collapsing he says to Ra's, "you never learned to mind your surroundings," the voice goes oddly high in pitch.

But I'm 100% certain that was a creative decision, i.e., it was part of Bale's performance. You know how I know that? Because if it wasn't a creative decision, it wouldn't have been in the movie. No line of dialogue gets into a movie sounding any way other than the way it is intended to sound. There's a wonderful thing called "ADR." If the dialogue recorded during shooting is unclear, or in any way unsatisfactory, they just re-record it.

So that uneven quality in Batman's voice was intentional. I think, given the fact that Batman and Ra's were locked in a wrestling hold of sorts, the voice was supposed to sound as if Batman was straining. 'Cuz he was. 'Cuz Ra's is his equal in combat.

During the Flass interrogation, on the other hand, Batman sounds flat-out evil. When he's talking with Gordon, he just sounds like Batman. When he's in a tight spot, sometimes the voice breaks, as it did on the train.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I dont really know how to explain it, it just seemed like he didnt have the same bad ash presence he's had in the comics and in TAS, basically like the "you could throw a punch at me right now and Ill take you down kinda attitude" he just seemed like he was just too pissy and stuff.

Okay, I get what you're saying, but there's a problem with the logic.

What you're saying is that in TAS, Batman had a very stoic presence. He rarely showed much outward emotion, rarely seemed to be anything other than 100% in control.

In BB he shows a bit more emotion in his voice, and sometimes he's not totally in control. Sometimes people get the drop on him and sometimes he gets visibly upset.

That's all absolutely true.

Here's the flaw in the argument:

he didnt have the same bad ash presence he's had in the comics

Batman has been potrayed MANY ways in the comics over the years. Sometimes he is portrayed the way he was in TAS. Sometimes he's not. The comics that BB draws its main inspiration from haved characterized Batman in different ways. In Year One, for instance, Batman screwed up fairly often. He was just starting out, after all. And usually in the comics, even in the Denny O'Neill years (which are another heavy influence on BB) it's not uncommon for people to get the drop on Batman... and Batman has, indeed, shown emotion. He is serious, but he has been portrayed as having a great deal of emotional range. He's nice to children and smooth with the ladies and sometimes he gets supremely pissed and shouts at the bad guys.

Batman in BB is totally consistent with a large number of the comics.

 

[The Guard]

I do not recall Batman being in control all the time in TAS. At all. I recall scenes where he was, but he was not like that all the time. I remember quite a few outburts of fear, excitement, rage, what have you.

 

[The Last Meatbag]

Batman has been potrayed MANY ways in the comics over the years. Sometimes he is portrayed the way he was in TAS. Sometimes he's not. The comics that BB draws its main inspiration from haved characterized Batman in different ways. In Year One, for instance, Batman screwed up fairly often. He was just starting out, after all. And usually in the comics, even in the Denny O'Neill years (which are another heavy influence on BB) it's not uncommon for people to get the drop on Batman... and Batman has, indeed, shown emotion. He is serious, but he has been portrayed as having a great deal of emotional range. He's nice to children and smooth with the ladies and sometimes he gets supremely pissed and shouts at the bad guys.

Batman in BB is totally consistent with a large number of the comics.

The Batman I usually read about is the Jeph Loeb Batman, that was probably why there was that flaw in my arguement

 

[Boom]

It didn't sound forced, though. I'm not even sure what that means. I've heard it a billion times since I joined this board and I can never read it without snorting. "Forced." It's a buzzword like "wooden" acting and "bad editing" and stuff like that. People say these words but they don't even know what they mean, if they mean anything.

Snort if you want. I have my own interpretation of what the word means. And for me at least, Bale's Batman voice fits perfectly into the category.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I do not recall Batman being in control all the time in TAS. At all. I recall scenes where he was, but he was not like that all the time. I remember quite a few outburts of fear, excitement, rage, what have you.

That's true, actually. When Harvey got blown up, for instance, I remember Batman's "Harvey... nooooo..." as being a very touching emotional moment.

I remember him fighting Croc, or Rhino (one of Scarface's goons) and sometimes getting a look of concern on his face that this big bastard wasn't going down as easy as he'd like.

I'm going to have to reconsider what I said to The Last Meatbag. He was dead wrong on all counts.

However, I will say that I think somehow TAS left us with an abiding image of Batman always being in control even when he obviously wasn't. Somehow it's what we remember first when we think of TAS. That may be something that is totally dependent on the point of view of the audience, but our friend Meatbag is not the only one to come away with this impression. Indeed when I think back on it, the thing I remember most about TAS Batman is the stoic, stalwart figure who always seemed to be in control.

Most interesting...

 

[Keyser Sushi]

The Batman I usually read about is the Jeph Loeb Batman, that was probably why there was that flaw in my arguement

I like Jeph Loeb but I think people tend to kiss his ash a bit much. He seems to have a tendency toward "kitchen sink" stories. By this I mean, his stories often have the proverbial "everything but the kitchen sink" crammed into them. How the guy can write a story called "The Long Halloween" and fit every Batman character known to man, God, and ferret into the thing, is quite beyond my capacity. And then, of course, there's "Hush."

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Meh,some of the things like

"YOU RATTLED HIS CAGE" was kinda annoying

I also didnt like how Bale did the voice, I would have liked it a bit more if he did a kind of whisper-y voice like Val Kilmer and Michael Keaton did. I would like Batman to be a bit more creepy a bit more intimidating and he should look like he understands every situation.....thats about it though

So flying around the docks scaring the **** out of criminals like a monster isn't creepy?

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Snort if you want. I have my own interpretation of what the word means. And for me at least, Bale's Batman voice fits perfectly into the category.

Obviously. But people also think that Christina Aguilera is sexy, and that meat is bad for you.

So, basically, somebody has to be wrong. I guess your number came up.

 

[Boom]

Obviously. But people also think that Christina Aguilera is sexy, and that meat is bad for you.

So, basically, somebody has to be wrong. I guess your number came up.

Opinions can't be wrong. Better luck next time .

 

[Maxwell Smart]

Actually when Bale's voice goes up during the monorail scene, it sounds to me like it was just Bats getting emotional. I don't think it was his voice accidentally getting higher..

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Opinions can't be wrong.

Sure they can. They often are. I love how people on discussion boards think they can say that because something is their opinion, it can't be debated. In fact, it can. And usually is.

 

[Boom]

Sure they can. They often are. I love how people on discussion boards think they can say that because something is their opinion, it can't be debated. In fact, it can. And usually is.

Explain to me how this is debatable.

I didn't like Bale's Batman voice. I thought it sounded forced. It sounded bad to me. It's not how I would've liked it to be.

Considering that is my personal opinion and belief in regards to an element of Batman that is open to free interpretation, how can there be a "right or wrong" to this ???

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Actually when Bale's voice goes up during the monorail scene, it sounds to me like it was just Bats getting emotional. I don't think it was his voice accidentally getting higher..

Exactly.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Explain to me how this is debatable.

Certainly.

I didn't like Bale's Batman voice. I thought it sounded forced. It sounded bad to me. It's not how I would've liked it to be.

I don't debate what you think, I only debate the validity of your opinion. You have not explained what you mean by "it sounded forced." Or in what way it fell short of worthiness for the character. You have only said that you didn't like it. While I don't dispute your right not to like it, I am less interested in what you think than I am in why you think it. This is, after all, a discussion board. And if all you care to do is state your opinion without explaining the reasoning behind it (if any) then it is not edifying to anyone, and is, essentially, a waste of space.

???

!!!

 

[StorminNorman]

I like Jeph Loeb but I think people tend to kiss his ash a bit much. He seems to have a tendency toward "kitchen sink" stories. By this I mean, his stories often have the proverbial "everything but the kitchen sink" crammed into them. How the guy can write a story called "The Long Halloween" and fit every Batman character known to man, God, and ferret into the thing, is quite beyond my capacity. And then, of course, there's "Hush."

You may be right, but I dont care. I will kiss Jeph Loebs ash all day long. Loeb can do no wrong, ever.

 

[Boom]

I don't debate what you think, I only debate the validity of your opinion. You have not explained what you mean by "it sounded forced." Or in what way it fell short of worthiness for the character. You have only said that you didn't like it. While I don't dispute your right not to like it, I am less interested in what you think than I am in why you think it. This is, after all, a discussion board. And if all you care to do is state your opinion without explaining the reasoning behind it (if any) then it is not edifying to anyone, and is, essentially, a waste of space.

If you wanted an explanation, all you had to do was ask. But considering I have no time to spare now, I'll address this in detail tomorrow.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

You may be right, but I dont care. I will kiss Jeph Loebs ash all day long. Loeb can do no wrong, ever.

Hehehehe... well, at least I won't be in your way.

If you wanted an explanation, all you had to do was ask. But considering I have no time to spare now, I'll address this in detail tomorrow.

Aw, but that would've been EASY.

Anyway, cool, I'm looking forward to it.

 

[kytrigger]

In all honesty, I was a little worried at first to hear that Nolan's brother would be writing it with him and Goyer wouldn't. Don't get me wrong, I think that Nolan and his brother are very excellent writers, but for some reason, I always felt that Goyer helped keep Nolan grounded in Batman mythos and kept Nolan from deviating too much.

I remember hearing that Nolan didn't want Scarecrow to wear a mask, but Goyer convinced him that it was necessary and that it had a purpose. I know that this is a rather small detail, but I think that it's these small details that helped make BB such a great film.

All I hope for is that IF what I heard above is true, that Nolan feels more comfortable in the Bat-world and doesn't stray too far from it. While I am a little worried, I still have faith that Nolan and Co. will come through and make a great BB sequel.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

In all honesty, I was a little worried at first to hear that Nolan's brother would be writing it with him and Goyer wouldn't. Don't get me wrong, I think that Nolan and his brother are very excellent writers, but for some reason, I always felt that Goyer helped keep Nolan grounded in Batman mythos and kept Nolan from deviating too much.

I remember hearing that Nolan didn't want Scarecrow to wear a mask, but Goyer convinced him that it was necessary and that it had a purpose. I know that this is a rather small detail, but I think that it's these small details that helped make BB such a great film.

All I hope for is that IF what I heard above is true, that Nolan feels more comfortable in the Bat-world and doesn't stray too far from it. While I am a little worried, I still have faith that Nolan and Co. will come through and make a great BB sequel.

I know what you mean. Goyer's a total comic geek and, like you, I really believe that his influence had a lot to do with BB being the faithful Batman movie that it was. Had scarecrow not worn the mask, that would've been... bad.

But Nolan also said that he wanted Goyer writing the sequel, so I was kind of surprised when it came out that Jon Nolan was doing the duty.

I suspect that Goyer will be very much involved, perhaps in a consulting capacity... he may have a "producer" credit or something. I don't think Chris Nolan would want to do it without Dave Goyer's input.

 

[kytrigger]

I know what you mean. Goyer's a total comic geek and, like you, I really believe that his influence had a lot to do with BB being the faithful Batman movie that it was. Had scarecrow not worn the mask, that would've been... bad.

But Nolan also said that he wanted Goyer writing the sequel, so I was kind of surprised when it came out that Jon Nolan was doing the duty.

I suspect that Goyer will be very much involved, perhaps in a consulting capacity... he may have a "producer" credit or something. I don't think Chris Nolan would want to do it without Dave Goyer's input.

I agree with you (and hope) that Goyer will still be somehow involved (as a producer or something). Everything I have heard from both Nolan and Goyer is that they did enjoy working together and that there were no real problems between the two that would lead to Goyer not coming back.

I think he might not be writing just because he has so many other projects he will be working on (like Flash)...

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I agree with you (and hope) that Goyer will still be somehow involved (as a producer or something). Everything I have heard from both Nolan and Goyer is that they did enjoy working together and that there were no real problems between the two that would lead to Goyer not coming back.

I think he might not be writing just because he has so many other projects he will be working on (like Flash)...

Exactly. I'm pretty sure that's what it is. Goyer's actually got a career rolling here... he graduated from writing Blade movies to directing Blade movies, and then graduated from directing Blade movies to writing Batman movies (yes that's a big step up in the world, lol!) and since the success of BB, his talents are undoubtedly in higher demand. Goyer's name has been attached to The Flash for some time now, and I'm sure that, with the success of BB and the general positive vibes and anticipation towards both Superman Returns and the Batman sequel, Warner's is probably keen to get some other DC properties up there on the screen. I imagine they're about to ram a pipe up Joss Whedon's bum if he doesn't get Wonder Woman rolling soon. And Goyer's Flash project is almost certainly a priority.

Basically WB needs Goyer doing Flash, and they need Nolan doing Batman, and they don't want to hold off on one to do the other. I'm sure Goyer will be only a phone call away, though, if Nolan wants to spitball ideas with him, or whatever. So I'm not really too worried about it. I figure that Jon Nolan's a better writer than Goyer, and Goyer is the resident Comic Geek... if Goyer contributes creatively, we're fine, because Jon Nolan can crank out a fine script, no doubts there. So we should have a good movie on our hands in 2008. Never fear.

 

[StorminNorman]

Another brilliant and spot on poster by Mr. Sushi.

 

[Herr Logan]

You guys think the character of Batman will be written better?

I sure as hell hope so. I think a lot of Bruce Wayne was done well, and the Batman did well some of the time, but there's a hell of a lot of room for improvement.