The Dark Knight Now that the Nolan Brothers Are Writing...

Whack Arnolds said:
I'm not the one professing to be better than a pro, in David Goyer...so what would my writing credentials have to do with anything? And what films have you worked on that went into "Palm Springs Film Festivals"? What exactly was your involvement with them? If David Goyer is a dip****, wouldn't that make you even further below dip****? He gets paid the bigger bucks for a reason, correct?

18 Minutes: Editor, Color Corrector, and Sound Design

I've also worked for a screenwriting seminar known as Cinestory and have had discussions with Michelle Sy, Barri Evans, and quite a few others. I had the same conversations with them about Batman Begins, and while some of them felt it was a decent movie, they also felt that my complaints were valid.

I never said that I was better than Goyer, but that doesn't mean he's any good. People get recognition for lots of different reasons, and they don't always deserve it. That argument is weak. You can't tell me that since Goyer gets money that makes him a writer on par with someone like Alvin Sargent, Lawrence Kasdan, or even David Hayter.
 
Sandman138 said:
18 Minutes: Editor, Color Corrector, and Sound Design

I've also worked for a screenwriting seminar known as Cinestory and have had discussions with Michelle Sy, Barri Evans, and quite a few others. I had the same conversations with them about Batman Begins, and while some of them felt it was a decent movie, they also felt that my complaints were valid.

I never said that I was better than Goyer, but that doesn't mean he's any good. People get recognition for lots of different reasons, and they don't always deserve it. That argument is weak. You can't tell me that since Goyer gets money that makes him a writer on par with someone like Alvin Sargent, Lawrence Kasdan, or even David Hayter.

All I was saying is he is alot better than you. And he turned out a pretty good script, for a pretty damn good film in Batman Begins.
 
True, Batman Begins was a very well written script a lot of people that read it wish that Nolan wouldve kept in some of the things he left out from the script.
 
Whack Arnolds said:
All I was saying is he is alot better than you. And he turned out a pretty good script, for a pretty damn good film in Batman Begins.

Do you know Sandman, have you read any of his scripts? And even if he wasn't that good, that wouldn't make Goyer alot better than him.
 
Keyser Sushi said:
Batman Begins >>>>>>> Daredevil.

ehh, I would say Batman Begins (is only) > Daredevil Directors Cut, I think the two films are very similar in the way they take super heros and try to through them into a more realistic world - and they both work very well IMO. I loved the Daredevil DC (my third favorite comic movie behind Begins and V).
 
Mr. Socko said:
Do you know Sandman, have you read any of his scripts? And even if he wasn't that good, that wouldn't make Goyer alot better than him.

actually it would make it a lot better than him. :D
- Grammar Harvey Dent
 
StorminNorman said:
ehh, I would say Batman Begins (is only) > Daredevil Directors Cut, I think the two films are very similar in the way they take super heros and try to through them into a more realistic world - and they both work very well IMO. I loved the Daredevil DC (my third favorite comic movie behind Begins and V).

Heya, Norm! Where ya been, buddy?

I have to admit I haven't seen the Daredevil DC... mostly because the TC didn't do much for me to begin with, so I didn't really feel the need to see the DC. I liked Daredevil, but I just didn't FEEL it, for some reason. And I kept flashing back to Burton's Batman movies, for some reason... :confused:
 
Keyser Sushi said:
Heya, Norm! Where ya been, buddy?

I have to admit I haven't seen the Daredevil DC... mostly because the TC didn't do much for me to begin with, so I didn't really feel the need to see the DC. I liked Daredevil, but I just didn't FEEL it, for some reason. And I kept flashing back to Burton's Batman movies, for some reason... :confused:

You should really check out the DC. I enjoyed the TC the first time I saw it (and the few times I saw it on HBO), but it wasnt anything spectacular. I then saw the DC and I dont know, I was very impressed. It shows more detail in the investigation of the Kingpen and is all together more dark and gritty.
 
MCD's Kingpin was cool. But I didn't like Daredevil TC at all, DC was pretty good.
 
I knew nothing about the character of Daredevil before the movie came out, nor did I have any bias against Afleck so I think that may of let me enjoy the movie more.
 
StorminNorman said:
I had new nothing about the character of Daredevil before the movie came out, nor did I have any bias against Afleck so I think that may of let me enjoy the movie more.

Same here. I didn't start reading Daredevil comic till after The DC.
 
StorminNorman said:
I had new nothing about the character of Daredevil before the movie came out, nor did I have any bias against Afleck so I think that may of let me enjoy the movie more.

Holy After-Prom Party! She must've boinked your grammar skills right out of your head, GrammarHarv!

ANYway... I had never read a Daredevil comic (still haven't) and I have nothing against Ben Affleck, but I just didn't think that much of the movie. However, a friend of mine has the DC, so I suppose I ought to give it a try sometime...
 
Keyser Sushi said:
Holy After-Prom Party! She must've boinked your grammar skills right out of your head, GrammarHarv!

ANYway... I had never read a Daredevil comic (still haven't) and I have nothing against Ben Affleck, but I just didn't think that much of the movie. However, a friend of mine has the DC, so I suppose I ought to give it a try sometime...

Ew, that was just...eww..sorry about that bastardization of the English language.

You should really try it, I give it :up: :up:
 
StorminNorman said:
Ew, that was just...eww..sorry about that bastardization of the English language.

That's not a denial of my allegations, btw. :D

You should really try it, I give it :up: :up:

Okay, here goes: I had wished u would of tole me 2... oh, never mind, I can't take it any longer.

Oh, wait... you meant try the DD: DC. :o

:D
 
You've never read a Daredevil comic? Then you should enjoy the DC.

Have you ever seen the Punisher?
 
Mr. Socko said:
You've never read a Daredevil comic? Then you should enjoy the DC.

Have you ever seen the Punisher?

Yeah! I was discussing that in one of these threads with Ronny a few days ago...
 
Mr. Socko said:
Do you know Sandman, have you read any of his scripts? And even if he wasn't that good, that wouldn't make Goyer alot better than him.
That's not the point. That's like saying someone who plays in the D-League is better than someone in the Majors, lol. He's doing short little festival films for a reason. And the ones he contributed to he wasn't even writing the script. He thinks he is one of these "Film Elite-ists", where everything they say is gospel, etc. etc. I don't need to read one of his scripts to know that David Goyer is already WAY better than him. Because if he was even close to David Goyer's level, one of his scripts would not have been just made into a major motion picture, but would also have to be GOOD. Sandman hasn't done that yet. I'm tired of seeing him ragging on people who are obviously more talented people than he'll ever be.
 
Anyone can analyze say a Batman movie, after they read the script and then see the outcome of the product, and then say they can do better. I can watch Kobe Bryant score 81 points, then say "hmm, I could do that, and do it even more effeciently", when that is obviously not the case...because if I could, I would be in his position.
 
Whack Arnolds said:
Anyone can analyze say a Batman movie, after they read the script and then see the outcome of the product, and then say they can do better. I can watch Kobe Bryant score 81 points, then say "hmm, I could do that, and do it even more effeciently", when that is obviously not the case...because if I could, I would be in his position.

Did I say I could do better? No. I said it was a flawed script that did not reach the potential it could have based on the concept. A better writer could have made it worked, I never said I was that writer so shut your mouth and learn to read an argument. You also have no idea about what is involved in editing if you think that an editor has no concept of story. Editing is considered to be baisically the third re-write of a script (the shooting script being the 1st, and the production being the 2nd). You have no concept of screenwriting or filmmaking at all, so I guess you ragging on me has no merit by your philosophy.
 
Sandman138 said:
Did I say I could do better? No. I said it was a flawed script that did not reach the potential it could have based on the concept. A better writer could have made it worked, I never said I was that writer so shut your mouth and learn to read an argument. You also have no idea about what is involved in editing if you think that an editor has no concept of story. Editing is considered to be baisically the third re-write of a script (the shooting script being the 1st, and the production being the 2nd). You have no concept of screenwriting or filmmaking at all, so I guess you ragging on me has no merit by your philosophy.
Did I say an editor has no concept of story? Where did I say this? All I said was it was not your principal script (which is the story's creation)..as to which the movie was made out of. Every script has flaws, they ALL have flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that it was still a really strong script, and an obvious better story than any of the prior Batman films. Everything can be better, so you can't measure it on it's "potential", more so on what it became. I don't have to know the ins and outs of filmaking to understand that.
 
Whack Arnolds said:
Did I say an editor has no concept of story? Where did I say this? All I said was it was not your principal script (which is the story's creation)..as to which the movie was made out of.

And thus I have no right to comment on writing by your standards. The implication being that I have no concept of story and writing, when as an editor I have to have a very strong concept of story and writing so that I can decide what works for the story, what has to be left out, and what has to change to make the story work. An editor is a writer, you don't acknowladge that.

Every script has flaws, they ALL have flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that it was still a really strong script,

Some flaws are more glaring than others. Begins had very noticable flaws and it was not a strong script. The content was certianly strong (the themes and ideas) but the execution (structure, presentation, dialouge) was weak. The Graduate is a strong script, Dog Day Afternoon is a strong script, 12 Angry Men is a strong script, and, in terms of super hero movies, the X-Men films have had reletivly strong scripts. You may not like the content, but that is a subjective point, how it is presented can usually be judged at least somewhat objectivly.

and an obvious better story than any of the prior Batman films.

That it has already proven to be debatable, negates this argument.

Everything can be better, so you can't measure it on it's "potential", more so on what it became. I don't have to know the ins and outs of filmaking to understand that.

Well, if you understand what the film was trying to get across, and see where it either didn't get it across or didn;'t do so elegantly then, yes, you can measure it on its potential.
 
Sandman138 said:
And thus I have no right to comment on writing by your standards. The implication being that I have no concept of story and writing, when as an editor I have to have a very strong concept of story and writing so that I can decide what works for the story, what has to be left out, and what has to change to make the story work. An editor is a writer, you don't acknowladge that.
In essence, yes the editor is a form or an extension of the writer.
Some flaws are more glaring than others. Begins had very noticable flaws and it was not a strong script. The content was certianly strong (the themes and ideas) but the execution (structure, presentation, dialouge) was weak. The Graduate is a strong script, Dog Day Afternoon is a strong script, 12 Angry Men is a strong script, and, in terms of super hero movies, the X-Men films have had reletivly strong scripts. You may not like the content, but that is a subjective point, how it is presented can usually be judged at least somewhat objectivly.
Ok, I can agree with that.
That it has already proven to be debatable, negates this argument.
True, this was my opinion comming through. I apologize.
Well, if you understand what the film was trying to get across, and see where it either didn't get it across or didn;'t do so elegantly then, yes, you can measure it on its potential.
Potential is completely subjective though, right?
 

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