Superman Returns Objectivity

[invincible mann]

a movie by singer that may have flaws is better then no movie at all

 

[Masut]

Ive read Bosef long post about comic dogmatists and as usual it is very well written and yet one sided,I think the problem lies more often than not in the lack of objectivity in this place and the ridiculous and sad need for many to brand other ppl with labels to try and make there point.Most feel safe in there ways which ever side they are part of as they are hiding safely behind their keyboards and can hurl insults without fear of retribution.
Here's the thing,there are these people who believe every change is evil and rant and rave about it as if it's the end of the world,they are branded "comic dogmatists" or more usually "fanboy purists",on the other hand you have those that just believe that every change is acceptable and that director is infalable,they carry such mantras as "in singer i trust",these people are branded "conformist studio drones".However what about those of us who have respect for the source material but also accept that the moive is a seperate entity ? I know im not happy about the suit and the same goes for others but it doesnt mean i am writing this movie,off,i see plenty of good things in the blogs and i know that singer is a good filmaker regardless of what changes he makes,At the end of the day we are getting a new superman movie and i am excited to see what it's like ,that doesn't make me a studio drone,i also will voice my views on changes and choices i think were a mistake but that doesnt make me a comic dogmatist,the bottom line ppl is that some need to take a more rounded view of these films in general,nothing is perfect but also there is no greater enemy to personal growth as stubborn hatred,Try to judge things as they are not how you wanted therm to be.

I am one of 'the rest of you' who respect source material but can adapt to change. This doesn't mean I'm a ball of play dough that can be manipulated by other people's comments and idea's. I have strong thoughts and opinions of my own and while expressing them, I don't let them get the better of me and I hold respect for those making the changes themselves as well as being open and listening to other people's thoughts. As a Director, Singer's role is to bring his visualisation of Superman to the screen and to show his interpretation of the script.

Think of other Director's. Then think of what they would have brought to Superman. Every one is different, and that's what makes this all interesting for me. What we do here is discuss the ideas and decisions these people and their teams have made and can only hope that it's similar to what we perceive in our heads. Singer's Superman is probably exactly how some of you guys pictured Supes to be! To other's it's something different entirely!

The only real way to get what you want is to do it yourself. And heh, that might take a while to do. So I'm grateful in a way that these hard working guys are bringing an awesome character to life. But if you really don't like what studios and directors do to characters and films, then use it as a drive to go study film or make your own movies! Hell that's what I plan to do one day.

So good post Hunter. A lot of us share the same thoughts as yourself.

 

[Nivek]

I understand Nivek,things have gotten heated,as far as im concerned lets just start fresh and talk SR rationaly

I would really like to do that. Thanks!

 

[The Kid]

I don't have to see this movie to know I like it.

 

[Hunter Rider]

After the ugliness that developed in Matt's thread i thought I'd give this one another shot

 

[chi-boy]

The problem is that the anonymity internet tends to bring out the worst in a lot of people. This goes for people on both sides. On one hand, you've got people posting about how the Singer suit is pissing all over an American icon and that this movie is sounding the death knell of the character. You've got people who can't see beyond their own selfish biases and already declare that this film is dead in the water. On the other side, you have the people who do blindly accept what Singer gives them, already declaring this film a victory in comic book storytelling. And that's the problem. Extremist fanboys deal with absolutes. There is no give and take. Objectivity is a nice thing to aspire for, however...reality shows that it is about as common as common sense.

I think the main problem is that people cannot look beyond their own worldview. Just because one doesn't like something does not mean that the product is bad. Many a time it just means it's not your taste. Take the suit as an example. Many people don't like it and that's fine. However, one cannot assume that that feeling is universal, like many people in the Hate thread try to make it out to be. There ARE people who prefer different things from the costume, and those who actually see the good in it. Again, the extremist fanboys deal with absolutes. The suit must be horrible and it is definitive. It is blind hatred. On the flip side, you've got people explaining that the suit is incredible because "In Singer We Trust." Blind devotion. Is it not entirely possible to see both the good and bad in the Routh suit and the Reeve suit? I don't think either one is perfect, however I do prefer the Routh suit over the Reeve suit based on the suit design itself. Whether or not it works on screen or if Routh's performance matches my expectations is still up in the air.

It's a case of "if you're not with us, you're against us" even when that isn't the case.

yeah, good job repeating what hunter said in a less elegant manner. credit smoree.

 

[Nivek]

yeah, good job repeating what hunter said in a less elegant manner. credit smoree.

Well, you HAD good intentions Hunter. Too bad people like stirring the s#1t too much.

 

[Metropolis_Man]

a movie by singer that may have flaws is better then no movie at all

And I think its even less flaws than we would've scene with any other director.

 

[DvilDog]

Spectacular post my friend. This is just me Im sure other people handle it differently. If i see someone thats completly trashing the flick based off a few trailers, and if they read the book(i know mine better be here tomorrow) then i tend to just read and keep quiet. This may be sad but when we discuss the new Supes i kind of feel like we are discussing a real life person. I mean lets be honest here. Would Supes want us to be bickering and fighting over how his costume looks, or the whole situation with the kid? I honestly think if he saw that happening he would be extremely dissapointed. Theres a little Superness in all of us. And definitly some Luthor as well. Thats what makes a lot of the comic book characters so likeable or unlikeable. We connect with these guys on a personal and emotional level. Hey I could be wrong but, thats how i feel. If discussing Supes brings out the Luthor in us then why discuss at all?

 

[C. Lee]

yeah, good job repeating what hunter said in a less elegant manner. credit smoree.

This post is one of the reasons you are currently on probation....if you can't talk to grownups like a civil human being....you will spend a great deal of time in time out like a little child.

 

[millennium movies]

After the ugliness that developed in Matt's thread i thought I'd give this one another shot

Well considering that i PM'ed C. Lee about making myself the thread you just made, your lucky he left it open. He wasn't for the idea specialy for the heat that happened in the other one. Looks like so far this has remained low key...

But right on the money with your topic starter. Im 100% with you!

 

[iLLy_DNA]

Yayy My turn to chime in and repeat everything you said in different words. Fans come in all different shapes and sizes with varying degrees of objectivity. Some people want to see specific issues of a comic translated word for word/panel for panel onscreen. Others dont mind seeing an adaptation. Some people will kill your mom over Superman's collar, some people are just happy to see somethiing called Superman in the movies and would accept a purple suit with an \S/ bowtie. I personally think that's pretty cool and I have a good time reading the different views. I think the mod's do a pretty good job at keeping things civil but there will always be discussions and there will always be butting heads over certain issues. No elegantly written Rally Speech is going to stop that.

I guess the one thing I do notice that probably wont ever change either is that people grasp on to certain tidbits they read like its stone cold fact and it gets blown out of proportion. I think the X3 boards are a good example. Even after it was utterly obvious Cyclops was going to die early on in the film people still held out hope that he'd return in the end...one of the reasons being a quote from one of the writers. well the quote could be taken in so many different ways but they latched on to that and after a million discussions it came to mean something that it wasnt supposed to. After lurking on this board since Spider-Man 1 I've seen it happen time and time again. Dont get me started on www.organicwebshooterssuck.com or whatever that site was. And it happens on positive points as well as negative points. And it gets to the point where quick comments from people on the production go from being things that came out spur of the moment that werent very thought out to being 100% concrete fact to cause a mass hysteria about.

So in the end you can either be a poster who enjoys getting caught up in the details and discussing every little bit of info that comes out. Or you can be on the other extreme which is like me and sit back and watch it all unfold at a distance. Or you can be anywhere in between. Just do your best to keep it civil or a mod will come along and help with that.


ahh i love the Hype.

 

[The Kid]

Absolutely agreed.

As a wise man once sang.

"Every day when you're walking down the street
Everybody that you meet has an original point of view
And I say - Hey! (Hey!) what a wonderful kind of day
If we could learn to work and play and get along with each other

You gotta listen to your heart listen to the beat.
Listen to the rhythm, the rhythm of the street.
Open up your eyes. Open up your ears.
Get together and make things better by working together.

It's a simple message and it comes from the heart
Believe in yourself for that's the place to start

And I say - Hey! (Hey!) What a wonderful kind of day.
If we could learn to work and play and get along with each other.

Hey! What a wonderful kind of day. Hey!
What a wonderful kind of day. Hey!" Arthur theme - pbs kids.

 

[batman44]

Great post Hunter Rider.

 

[Steelsheen]

Ive read Bosef long post about comic dogmatists and as usual it is very well written and yet one sided,I think the problem lies more often than not in the lack of objectivity in this place and the ridiculous and sad need for many to brand other ppl with labels to try and make there point.Most feel safe in there ways which ever side they are part of as they are hiding safely behind their keyboards and can hurl insults without fear of retribution.
Here's the thing,there are these people who believe every change is evil and rant and rave about it as if it's the end of the world,they are branded "comic dogmatists" or more usually "fanboy purists",on the other hand you have those that just believe that every change is acceptable and that director is infalable,they carry such mantras as "in singer i trust",these people are branded "conformist studio drones".However what about those of us who have respect for the source material but also accept that the moive is a seperate entity ? I know im not happy about the suit and the same goes for others but it doesnt mean i am writing this movie,off,i see plenty of good things in the blogs and i know that singer is a good filmaker regardless of what changes he makes,At the end of the day we are getting a new superman movie and i am excited to see what it's like ,that doesn't make me a studio drone,i also will voice my views on changes and choices i think were a mistake but that doesnt make me a comic dogmatist,the bottom line ppl is that some need to take a more rounded view of these films in general,nothing is perfect but also there is no greater enemy to personal growth as stubborn hatred,Try to judge things as they are not how you wanted therm to be.

BRAVO!!!

i cant believe i missed this . must've been those days where i purposely skipped this forum becuase its the same thing day in and day out-- raining Gushers and Bashers. its like you cant say something unless some moron calls on you and undermines your statement. and they feel better for it? a lot of the times i felt like i was posting with a bunch of 12 year olds, so instead of lowering myself to their level, i just left.

lots of folks have left because of that reason or another, and its a crying shame since a good deal of them are worthy posters that made this forum great. i dont think blaming management will resolve this. the welfare of a forum is only as good as the posters who contribute to it.

 

[millennium movies]

One objectivity i see that i had to get out there, although not SR related;
the amount of but kissing SHH is doing for some films (X3?), just look at the front site and you will understand. I hate "bureaucrats"...

 

[Showtime]

You will see the same thing of Superman Returns in late June. I am excited about seeing X-Men. I am going to rent the 1st two and then go see the 3rd one.

 

[millennium movies]

Well i have nothing against the film , any film , i just dont like the move on SHH's part. I dont like websites submiting itselves to those big studios. Its like some have become a big AD destination full of pop-ups and such. Im very annoyed by it. I guess im the only one. Its almost starting to turn out like the show ET, less about filmaking and more about scandals and gossip. In this case a studio puppet site...

 

[Hunter Rider]

The front page is dedicated to X3 because SHH have bagged some big interviews with the cast,it's a way to get their site hits,i see no issue with this,they will do it for SR as well and did it last year for BB and F4

 

[Showtime]

Well i have nothing against the film , any film , i just dont like the move on SHH's part. I dont like websites submiting itselves to those big studios. Its like some have become a big AD destination full of pop-ups and such. Im very annoyed by it. I guess im the only one. Its almost starting to turn out like the show ET, less about filmaking and more about scandals and gossip. In this case a studio puppet site...

I don't Double M, I think it's not a problem. I think it's great exposure for both X-3 and SHH. Crossover.

 

[millennium movies]

It is im shure but i just hope this is not the start of a studios starting to "own" SHH. But your right on that matter ^

 

[Bad Superman]

Unfortunately not much has changed.

 

[millennium movies]

What do you mean Bad Superman?

 

[newmexneon]

Jesus, you guys are starting to sound like presidential campaign managers. It's just a movie!!

 

[Showtime]

Jesus, you guys are starting to sound like presidential campaign managers. It's just a movie!!

I am not getting the reference Mex?