Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - Part 14

[RoughNTumble]

morrisons is better shutup hobbit ^~^

 

[JewishHobbit]

They took turns!

 

[Naked Shia]

To claim Morrison's run has been convoluted is not paying attention to his work. I don't care about what people think, his run on batman is one of the most memorable run on comics i've ever read and I'm grateful for that.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Yeah, I'm happy we got Morrison's Batman run, I just wish he weren't so disillusioned now. But hopefully he will be writing something definitive for each of the big 5 of DC:

Superman- All Star, Action, Beyond, One Million
Batman- Batman-Batman Inc
Wonder Woman- Earth One
Flash- JLA (Earth One? He said he'd like to write Barry Allen)
Green Lantern- JLA, Multiversity

As well as highlights for each of the big 7 in JLA. It seems like he's writing everything he wants before leaving superhero comics, considering he's doing his sons of Batman/Superman story as a Multiversity issue.

 

[The Batman]

To be fair, though, I think Johns accomplished a heck of a lot more than Morrison did. Both were epic runs, but Johns turned the GL title from a mediocre title into a successful franchise with a lot more depth than it previously had. Morrison wrote a confusing-at-times epic that started amazing but eventually dwindled to the point of being a 3rd string Batman book. I mean, most of his stuff has been completely ignored since the New52 (save Damian). Yeah, I really enjoyed Morrison's run (save the return of Bruce Wayne story that was much too convoluted for its own good), but I think Johns gave more to the Green Lantern than Morrison ever did to Batman. Damian is the only exception, and he took that away.

I agree that Johns did more for GL than Morrison did for Batman, in the sense that he did indeed turn GL into an A list hero. However, Morrison was, IMO, really the first guy to truly try and move on from Frank Miller's influence on the character. He legitimized a part of Batman's history that most fans try to ignore. He gave Batman a son and made him a popular character. The only reason his changes won't stick is because DC wants Batman to be stuck in generic grimdark. But Morrison gave a lot to Batman just the same, and his run on Batman is better than Johns' GL run, IMO.

 

[Naked Shia]

it's not DC who doesn't want Batman to move from the grim'n'grittiness. It's fans. Most of them want the same boring stuff over and over again. For instance, look at how most people react everytime there is a new batman show. "oh noes it sux, it ain't teh awesome like TAS is. I only LUV TAS because it is teh better evar".

 

[JewishHobbit]

To claim Morrison's run has been convoluted is not paying attention to his work. I don't care about what people think, his run on batman is one of the most memorable run on comics i've ever read and I'm grateful for that.

No, it's been 100% convoluted at times... particularly RIP (in parts) and the Return of Bruce Wayne. Other things aren't as convoluted as they are either so drawn out it's easy to forget portions of the story, or that Morrison laid it out horribly. I mean, RIP to Final Crisis was just a stupid transition that made zero sense until, what, a year later? And it wasn't even explained in a core Morrison book but in a fill-in issue following Daniels' Batman run. Not to mention his Final Crisis was confusing as all get out, and then somehow linking that to RIP and the Return of Bruce Wayne didn't help anything.

Can it be followed? Yes. Is it easy? No. Is it convoluted? Absolutely. It's still good (though it hit a rough patch for a year or so) but definitely not something I'd offer someone who wasn't already a hardcore Batman fan.

 

[Compi716]

Yeah, I'm happy we got Morrison's Batman run, I just wish he weren't so disillusioned now. But hopefully he will be writing something definitive for each of the big 5 of DC:

Superman- All Star, Action, Beyond, One Million
Batman- Batman-Batman Inc
Wonder Woman- Earth One
Flash- JLA (Earth One? He said he'd like to write Barry Allen)
Green Lantern- JLA, Multiversity

As well as highlights for each of the big 7 in JLA. It seems like he's writing everything he wants before leaving superhero comics, considering he's doing his sons of Batman/Superman story as a Multiversity issue.

Morrison's JLA is brilliant, and in my opinion is the one of the greatest single runs in comic history. It takes everything that make comics comics (wild Silver Age ideas, crazy Kirby-esque illustrations, strong characters, powerful stories, and real drama) and pumps them to the Nth degree. I own the complete hardcover collection, and it was a great investment.

 

[flickchick85]

I think Morrison's Batman run is superior to Johns' Green Lantern (as I think Morrison>>>>Johns as a writer in general), BUT I do agree that Johns did more for GL than Morrison did for Batman, just because of the state GL was in when Johns took over.

 

[Anubis]

You mean infinitely better but slept on cuz mofo's don't read good comics?

 

[flickchick85]

Whatever you say.

 

[Anubis]

I'm sayin' it right now. Winnick's run was better than Johns' .

 

[flickchick85]

Well I'm not about to start defending Johns considering his GL run is the only thing I've ever even liked from him, but I'll just say of the TPB's I've read from Winnick's run, I found them to be convoluted and/or dull. He did do nice things for Kyle Rayner, though, I'll give him that.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I guess I win because I loves both

 

[nite-owl]

it's not DC who doesn't want Batman to move from the grim'n'grittiness. It's fans. Most of them want the same boring stuff over and over again. For instance, look at how most people react everytime there is a new batman show. "oh noes it sux, it ain't teh awesome like TAS is. I only LUV TAS because it is teh better evar".

You know if it was up to some fans all Batman comics would him scowling in a cave.

 

[RoughNTumble]

batman inc 13 a great end for the best run

goodnight sweet prince

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I didn't think it was that great, one of the few issues I was a little let down by, and it had to be the goddamn ending. I know G-Mo said it would be bleak, and it seems like he's done so because of editorial mandate, but still. Anyway, superb run overall on Batman and my favourite.

Can't wait for Wonder Woman: Earth One, Multiversity and a potential Flash from Morrison!

 

[antsman41]

So, was an amazing way to 'finish' it up; the Talia death, Gordon-Bruce debriefing, "Batman reborn".

But, why tease a revenge plot from Ra's? Seems odd since the reboot with Zero Year is basically rewriting history and finally actually being a reboot sadly. Also, the Zero Year nod pissed me off. Morrison is better than that...

Even the tease is nice and making Batman fight a clone army of his own son is pretty messed up... where the hell will this take place? Way down the line once Snyder is done or will Grant do GN? Just odd to add that in with no notion of seeing the follow through. I really want to take sharpie and write over "...it's like Zero Year all over again" with something meaningful like NML or Knightfall or even War Games. Even though all of those were 10x worse than this...

I was also hoping for more of a conclusion for my Batman continuity. Clearly Snyder is off in his own world, Batwoman is so/so lately, might check out Det since that is better now but have no idea where it lies in New 52 or The Good Old Storyline, and everything else is meh or terrible.

Again, also... will we see a resurrected Damian/Talia now?

 

[Snow Queen]

I was also hoping for more of a conclusion for my Batman continuity. Clearly Snyder is off in his own world, Batwoman is so/so lately, might check out Det since that is better now but have no idea where it lies in New 52 or The Good Old Storyline, and everything else is meh or terrible.

I'd highly recommend picking up the issues from 13 onwards. The first arc doesn't sound too great conceptually but it's pulled off fantastically. It also, in my opinion, has the best DOTF tie in (though, it doesn't make too much sense how Bruce is doing all this and the main bat-title but it's a good enough story that I don't mind). And this new arc is looking great so far.

 

[DeGenerate10]

I enjoyed #13. I wonder if Grant did that ending for a window to come back to Bats eventually? Or is someone else going to pick up where that left off?

 

[Roose Bolton]

So, was an amazing way to 'finish' it up; the Talia death, Gordon-Bruce debriefing, "Batman reborn".

But, why tease a revenge plot from Ra's? Seems odd since the reboot with Zero Year is basically rewriting history and finally actually being a reboot sadly. Also, the Zero Year nod pissed me off. Morrison is better than that...

Even the tease is nice and making Batman fight a clone army of his own son is pretty messed up... where the hell will this take place? Way down the line once Snyder is done or will Grant do GN? Just odd to add that in with no notion of seeing the follow through. I really want to take sharpie and write over "...it's like Zero Year all over again" with something meaningful like NML or Knightfall or even War Games. Even though all of those were 10x worse than this...

I was also hoping for more of a conclusion for my Batman continuity. Clearly Snyder is off in his own world, Batwoman is so/so lately, might check out Det since that is better now but have no idea where it lies in New 52 or The Good Old Storyline, and everything else is meh or terrible.

Again, also... will we see a resurrected Damian/Talia now?

It's left TO BE CONTINUED because that's the nature of Batman comics, he's sort of making a statement that you can't really "end" things for a character that will never have an ending, it's also symbolic: the run began with Son of Batman and ends with Sons of Batman. A snake eating its own tail, ouroboros.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Also, the Zero Year nod pissed me off. Morrison is better than that...

Why? That's such a weird thing to be angry about.

 

[antsman41]

But, Morrison is outside of this crappy 'New 52' continuity.

 

[antsman41]

Why? That's such a weird thing to be angry about.

They're trying to push something that 'happened' in the past, that has never mattered before because it "never ever happened" into the current stuff just because 'it' is now happening.

It's a terrible way to tell stories if something from the past is only important because it is retroactively being created and made important.

It's one thing having Year One in the back of all our minds while reading everything Batman during the last 20 years but not every issue/storyline/etc force fed us little notions/things that happened during Year One. That'd be like everytime Bruce took out a bunch of thieves he adds, "remember that one time where I get hit with a tv on a fire escape" or "this dive is like when I saved Jim's son falling off a bridge".

Hush's weakest plot was making Tommy Bruce's long lost best friend, because it was something important that somehow was never brought up because it was also retroactively forced upon is for sake of the current plot. Comic writers need to keep building on the foundation, not rebuilding the foundation every other year just to wow us.

I will say, Snyder making a history that wasn't stepping on Batman's past was brilliant. It added to the mystery of Gotham without retconing things. It's one thing tying Copplepot's and Wayne's together because that was always possible. But; long lost friends, clone brother thing or what ever that Owl guy was (I forgot, it was stupid), Year Zero's impact on Gotham and Wayne Enterprise are all idiotic because it doesn't line up with what we already know about Bruce no matter how much the writers tr to make it.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

***** about it all you want, but Morrison was just keeping within editorial continuity. It didn't do anything to detract from the issue, and it honestly made me that much more interesting in Zero Year.

And stories call back to specific past stories all the time. Just because you can't think of an example for Year One doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It's the nature of serialized story-telling. These people are constantly writing sequels to what went on before.

And yes, sometimes that means making up childhood best friends that we haven't seen before in order to tell a fresh, new story. If you don't like that, maybe you shouldn't read comics. You'll just get angry a lot.