Official Contest of Marvels II Discussion Thread

[Harlekin]

Damn I just went through my best debates yet. Ch'od vs Lizard (Harlekin), I gotta admit Harlekin even had me going, till I read my Starjammers issues.

It's a good debate.

I gotta edit the Wiki on Ch'od but I'm afraid taht could get me disqualified for tampering with a bio. What do you say Phaed?

I don't see why you shouldn't be able too. You'd be adding factually correct info.

Since I saw the question brought up, I cannot remember who remembers the Secret Wars. I thought a few heroes, such as Reed Richards, The Thing (I figure, since he spent a year there), and Spider-Man, if memory serves me correctly did. But, I thought many of the people who went there had their memories of it erased. Can anyone remember?

I don't recall that happening. Secret Wars really messed with quite a few characters, and one over the other getting their memories erased would be selective, something I don't recall the Beyonder doing. Heck, even Colossus kept his memory of it, even though all that happened with him was a silly fling. That led to his break-up with Kitty.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

If we still have a contest on Dec. 22-29, you'll only have 1 match:

Thread 4: Hydroman (KYTRIGGER) vs. Whither (AHURA MAZDA).

If we do the above, then you have 3 matches on Dec. 30-Jan.5:

Thread 2: Doc Samson(AHURA MAZDA) vs. Cable-Telepath(HIPPY)

Thread 7: Empath(AHURA MAZDA) vs. Xi'an Chi Xan(WIEGEABO)

Thread 8: Valkyrie(AHURA MAZDA) vs. Modok(MIDNIGHT ICE)

If we take Dec.22-29 off, then you'll only miss the first match between Dec. 30-Jan.5.

I hope the decision will be to have at least one week off....

With regard the Whither vs Hydroman match, even with a write up I will probably lose given I cannot debate and that match would require quite a bit of debating.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Phaed can you delay debating, I've had some stuff on this weekend so haven't been able to get a good debate going. If you could delay it twelve ish your time that would mean me and ahura might be able to get a last hour of debate in (we are seven and eight hours behind you respectively)... or at least give him some time to make sure he gets a last reply in...

¨

I appreciate it and I posted my last reply. I do not tzhink we can take it any further given I have summarised it as best as I can.

Your scanned images are a definite bonus for you

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Since I saw the question brought up, I cannot remember who remembers the Secret Wars. I thought a few heroes, such as Reed Richards, The Thing (I figure, since he spent a year there), and Spider-Man, if memory serves me correctly did. But, I thought many of the people who went there had their memories of it erased. Can anyone remember?

I think they all had their m,emories wiped clean of the event but people like the molecule man were able to remember. When Beyonder came to Earth in part II, they did not remember him.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

If it makes things easier for you, AM, you could always just forfeit the Empath fight.

Thank you that is so kind of you but given the guilty feelings of Xian I do not think I will

 

[hippy fascist]

¨

I appreciate it and I posted my last reply. I do not tzhink we can take it any further given I have summarised it as best as I can.

Your scanned images are a definite bonus for you

i PUT ONE LAST POST IN AS A SUMMARY OF MY ARGUMENT (HOPEFULLY THIS APPROACH WILL EVEN THINGS OUT WITH CASSUAL VOTERS WHO JUST SKIM. fEEL FREE TO REBUTT OR WE CAN JUST LEAVE IT IF YOU WANT?

 

[Ahura Mazda]

i PUT ONE LAST POST IN AS A SUMMARY OF MY ARGUMENT (HOPEFULLY THIS APPROACH WILL EVEN THINGS OUT WITH CASSUAL VOTERS WHO JUST SKIM. fEEL FREE TO REBUTT OR WE CAN JUST LEAVE IT IF YOU WANT?

I saw it and I added one last post which summarises everything in one sentence with no bias either way.

 

[hippy fascist]

I saw it and I added one last post which summarises everything in one sentence with no bias either way.

AWESOMENESS!

 

[JewishHobbit]

Okay... just got around to reading the Typhoid soft porn idea. Good lord. I put up a rebuttal, but I'm done. Start the voting!

 

[Phaedrus45]

Ok, I will end debating around 12:00 PST. So, you guys have about 3 hours left to say whatcha gotta say. (And, remember, voting will last until 12:00 PST Thursday, as I promised last week.)

Also, Wiki does have some inaccuracies, (but, I also notice many of their articles are just stolen text from other websites). Remember, the best source for all materials would be the Official Handbooks put out by Marvel. (Also, for the older characters, I've found the 4 handbooks put in Essential format very valuable. That's where I got my Frankie Raye information that really illuminated how powerful she is. Those are only 16.99 a piece, or much, much cheaper from Amazon.com.)

I'm not sure how I feel about changing Wiki during debating time. For now, I'd prefer you just to advise the voters, because it's a fine line about editting material to suit your character.

Another issue I want to address is editing of previous material that a participant has written. (Please feel free to give input on this topic.) Sometimes editting is essential to take care of any problems or inaccuracies. Two instances where I've done that are as follows: 1) This week the wrong character for "Breakdown" was used. Hellstormer and I went back, editted the new information into our previous posts, and started over. Plus, I informed him that I was doing this. 2) In the Dead Girl/Mercury match, we debated for a long time about whether X-Statix was in Marvel continuity and how much of Mercury's appearances could be used. Even though we disagreed, we came to a decision, and instead of having the voters read a bunch of arguments that would not pertain to the battle, I editted away much of the constant arguments. Again, I informed my opponent. What I don't want is editting of information that doesn't allow the readers to see the train of thought that got followed in your arguments. For example, with the Dead Girl/Mercury match, JH editted one of his previous posts with a final portion of his debate. He came up with an idea at the last minute, put it into a previous post (which I didn't find out until voting had started) and highlighted it; but, he did inform the readers that this is a last minute post, but just wanted to make sure they got a chance to read it.

Again, like I said, I want the debates to show each opponents train of thought. Plus, before I tackled this issue, I wanted time to pass between my match and the topic. So, I'm thinking of various rules to go along this line, and wanted everyone's input. 1) any editting should be noted to your opponent; 2) editting shouldn't be done if you come across an idea against your opponent later in the week to be reflected in a post earlier in the week. Our debates should have a flow, and to break in with edits would disrupt the flow of reading.

BTW, this isn't an attack on JH. He was within the rules to do that...we just hadn't talked about it, and I didn't want to make the point in regards to my match. I was going to tell Hellstormer to make a note in his first debate about the new information he found that goes against wiki...but, it wouldn't show the voters how he went about finding that information, and it would also make people wonder why they are reading the stuff about Lizard that might be now considered inaccurate.

So, feel free to voice your thoughts.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I actually to be honest do a general google search and look at all the information plus I do have a growing comic collection which I use.

I realise that Wiki is sometimes inaccurate but I question other sites as well. Such as sites which refer to Hulk as 7' which he has not been for over 20 years.

I honestly think that common sense is needed and a sense of honor, that people will not falsely portray their character.

By the way, phaedrus, which debate were you referring to?

 

[Phaedrus45]

I actually to be honest do a general google search and look at all the information plus I do have a growing comic collection which I use.

I realise that Wiki is sometimes inaccurate but I question other sites as well. Such as sites which refer to Hulk as 7' which he has not been for over 20 years.

I honestly think that common sense is needed and a sense of honor, that people will not falsely portray their character.

By the way, phaedrus, which debate were you referring to?

Well, to some extent, we all end up portraying our characters falsely at some point in this contest. I, also, look at many different websites with information, and a time or two I've come across information on my character that I hope my opponent doesn't find. (And, this has happened. I know how to defeat my character...but, if my opponent doesn't use it, I'm not going to bring it up.) Plus, we tend to try and make our characters sometimes more powerful than they really are. We see the have the potential to do something, even though we know they have never done it. (In fact, one debate currently going on has this scenario. The character might be able to do something, but it's never been shown....or, it seems to go against character.) Also, many times scans of pictures are one sided, not giving the reader the full picture of what happened. All perfectly legal; and, it's up to the opponent to dispute it or discover the inaccuracies. (And, even if you do find them, it's not guarantee they'll believe you.)

Anyway, I was referring to Hellstormer, actually, on Ch'od vs. Lizard. I just got the name wrong....sorry.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Well, to some extent, we all end up portraying our characters falsely at some point in this contest. I, also, look at many different websites with information, and a time or two I've come across information on my character that I hope my opponent doesn't find. (And, this has happened. I know how to defeat my character...but, if my opponent doesn't use it, I'm not going to bring it up.) Plus, we tend to try and make our characters sometimes more powerful than they really are. We see the have the potential to do something, even though we know they have never done it. (In fact, one debate currently going on has this scenario. The character might be able to do something, but it's never been shown....or, it seems to go against character.) Also, many times scans of pictures are one sided, not giving the reader the full picture of what happened. All perfectly legal; and, it's up to the opponent to dispute it or discover the inaccuracies. (And, even if you do find them, it's not guarantee they'll believe you.)

Anyway, I was referring to Hellstormer, actually, on Ch'od vs. Lizard. I just got the name wrong....sorry.

I understand what you say and the scanned images are an example on how to portray one aspect while ignoring others. I have seen the full comic of some of those scanned images and they sometimes are misleading when you see the full picture.

In any case, withholding information is one thing but an outright lie should be illegal.

I am off now and will be traveling most of the day so I will see you or to be more accurate your posts tomorrow night.

 

[hippy fascist]

I understand what you say and the scanned images are an example on how to portray one aspect while ignoring others. I have seen the full comic of some of those scanned images and they sometimes are misleading when you see the full picture.

In any case, withholding information is one thing but an outright lie should be illegal.

I am off now and will be traveling most of the day so I will see you or to be more accurate your posts tomorrow night.

agreed, some people voting might not be that familiar with a character and be swayed by a lie. If someone knows something to be untrue beyond all reasonable doubt they should be able to call them on it or have the point removed from their argument

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!

 

[Phaedrus45]

JH and I have talked, and we'll be taking a one week break from competition between Dec. 22-29. This way, everyone can enjoy their holiday and not have to worry about getting a debate out on Christmas Day.

 

[Hellstormer]

Thank the Lord!

 

[Phaedrus45]

Ok, just a point to bring out. In voting, it's no problem saying why you think a person's characters will win....but, since most of us have had our chances to have our say, I would like to see people who own characters to keep their debating points out of their voting process. It comes close to trying to have the last word, and it's not fair to try to sway voters onto your side. (The only time I really allowed this was with DarkHellRider, who didn't get up a debate one week, and I told him to mention in a sentence or two why he voted for his character.)

 

[JewishHobbit]

agreed, some people voting might not be that familiar with a character and be swayed by a lie. If someone knows something to be untrue beyond all reasonable doubt they should be able to call them on it or have the point removed from their argument

This has always been something I watch for. If you recall, there is a rule that states that a person cannot interfere with another person's match unless he feels false information is given. He or she can then correct the mistake. This is why when I debate, if I'm not sure on something, I always mention that i'm either not sure, could be mistaken, or simply know little about the character. I want people to know that I'm using my best estimate, but could be wrong... and I want people to correct me if I am wrong.

However, if a player lies too often, and it becomes blatantly obvious that they're doing it on purpose... well, let's just say it will be dealt with HARSHLY. As I keep saying, this is a gentlemen's game and it is to remain so. I do not accept blatant cheating. I hold chronic lying in the same regard as creating new accounts for voting and such. It will be watched closely and there WILL be consequences. Cheating is cheating and it will not be tolerated.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Just letting you guys know we have a windstorm where I live. (Crazy couple of months. We had our snowstorm, rainstorm, and now windstorm.) Lights have been flickering, and some areas are without power already. If you have trouble getting ahold of me, or I'm not responding, you'll know why.

 

[Darthphere]

You know another thing. Its going to seem like im ranting or catching feelings, but if youre going to vote for a character, just because you like that character better, and has nothing to do with the debates, please keep that info to yourself.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Yeah, that pisses me off, too. If there is a legitimate reason, let me know. But, if it's because you like or hate someone, keep it to yourself. It just builds resentment that a voter might not be able to be unbiased towards your character.

 

[JewishHobbit]

6) Voting - One matter will change about voting this season. Still, once you make your decision, it will be final. But, if you vote and realize you mistakingly voted for the wrong character, I think it should be allowed for that person to change their vote. Since debating will officially end when voting begins, the chance someone can be swayed differently is greatly reduced, and I think it's fair to say we'll trust our voters to be honest when they say they made a mistake. Again, all votes must be based on reading all debates and coming to your own conclusion with all the information given. Please, do not vote for a character solely because you like them or don't like them. Also, make the same consideration for the participants in the contest.

No bias voting is an official rule last I checked. People need to remember that before we have to dicipline for breaking it. If bias voting becomes obvious (and we've let it go for some time, but I'm more than willing to start cracking down on it if it gets too bad) then be prepared to give me a really good reason for it. I've voted oddly in the past, but anytime anyone's questioned me about it, I gave a good reason for my vote... and it's never been biased. I expect the same from the rest of you.

And Phaed... don't loose your roof in the wind over there

 

[Phaedrus45]

After JH's votes, we currently have 4 ties:

Madison Jeffries vs. Delilah
Moses Magnum vs. Man-Beast
Typhoid Mary vs. Lifeguard
Paibok the Power Skrull vs. Jolt

Plus, at 5-4, we have the Shriek vs. Vermin match. (Zoken's only voted in the one thread so far.)

On top of that, we have two more close matches at 5-3:

Maverick vs. Jocasta
Tana Nile vs. Breakdown

 

[JewishHobbit]

Heck of a week. Vote Lifeguard