Rise of the Silver Surfer Official: Fantastic Four 2 Novelization Discussion MAJOR SPOILERS!

[Kelly]

That's the bottom line. If Fox loses every single one of the handful of people who hang out here, AICN and few other places and gains 1% of the general public, that would be a positive on their balance sheet.

We provide a free service to Fox as a focus group that they don't have to set up or pay for, but in the grand scheme of things, we don't matter one bit. A lot of people worry about "negative buzz", but any publicity is good publicity.

Fox's biggest challenge with a film like this is to get the people out there, who may not even know a FF film is around the corner, into the theaters. If those people find out about it because: "Galactus is a purple fart", Fox just made 10 million dollars.

I can assure you, my peeps are not speaking for the masses.....lmao....I'm just being honest about my little world.....in my little world.....I'm pretty much the only one that follows this stuff. They will all go to the movie, because they enjoy going to movies......but as far as religiously following this movie.....they don't do that with any movie. NOW THE KIDS IN MY CLASS.....thats a different story.....they are not concerned with what Galactus looks like....they aren't concerned about anything, except will they have the 7.50 for the movie on June 15th....

 

[Bishop2]

That's the bottom line. If Fox loses every single one of the handful of people who hang out here, AICN and few other places and gains 1% of the general public, that would be a positive on their balance sheet.

I think fans of the source material make up a lot more than 1%, because otherwise I have a hard time believing that some of these movies would've opened as huge as they did. With comic book films, there's always a massive opening weekend followed by a sharp 60%+ drop the following week... why is that? Because people who are familiar with the property, either from cartoons or comics or some form they touched it in their youth, are rushing to see it opening weekend. That's what fans do. Your average moviegoer doesn't need to rush to see something right when it opens most of the time.

That having been said, I think fans still don't make up the majority of the gross. The majority is people just looking for big action and big effects. But I think it makes up enough of the gross that it can damage the bottom line. Lousy word of mouth among fans is the reason why Batman & Robin opened much weaker than the previous film in the series - even though Forever had strong carryover throughout the summer and generated far more cash than Batman Returns. It's not like John Q. Public had any reason to hate Batman & Robin or heard anything negative about it, yet what was with that oddly soft opening? Batman fans. Bitter ones.

I'd propose that fans - or, perhaps not really FANS, but at least people who know about these properties from when they were kids and watched cartoons or something - probably make up 20-25% of the audience for these shows. Enough to cause a significant dent, based on what we've seen in the past.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think fans of the source material make up a lot more than 1%, because otherwise I have a hard time believing that some of these movies would've opened as huge as they did. With comic book films, there's always a massive opening weekend followed by a sharp 60%+ drop the following week... why is that? Because people who are familiar with the property, either from cartoons or comics or some form they touched it in their youth, are rushing to see it opening weekend. That's what fans do. Your average moviegoer doesn't need to rush to see something right when it opens most of the time.

That having been said, I think fans still don't make up the majority of the gross. The majority is people just looking for big action and big effects. But I think it makes up enough of the gross that it can damage the bottom line. Lousy word of mouth among fans is the reason why Batman & Robin opened much weaker than the previous film in the series - even though Forever had strong carryover throughout the summer and generated far more cash than Batman Returns. It's not like John Q. Public had any reason to hate Batman & Robin or heard anything negative about it, yet what was with that oddly soft opening? Batman fans. Bitter ones.

I'd propose that fans - or, perhaps not really FANS, but at least people who know about these properties from when they were kids and watched cartoons or something - probably make up 20-25% of the audience for these shows. Enough to cause a significant dent, based on what we've seen in the past.

I think you're absolutely right, but I think most of the "fans" aren't really you and me.

Let me put it in perspective. I'm a Spider-man "fan". I like Spider-man. When I first started buying comic books, he was my favorite for a while before I switched over to FF. I've watched Spider-man cartoons and *cringe* the TV show in the '70s with the white wrist bands. I've seen him in FF cross-overs . . . I've seen him on the Electric Company for cripes sakes.

With all that said, if you had asked me to tell you about Kraven, or the Lizard, I couldn't tell you much beyond a few superficial details. If the Lizard's origin or abilities are changed in future movie, I may not know, and even if I do know they were changed, I'm not going to stay away from the theater.

So, while your points are very valid, we can't really look at it as if there are only two types of people: hard-core fans who can recite chapter and verse and people who know nothing about the characters. Most of the people who will be seeing this film have probably seen the Silver Surfer and think he's sort of cool . . . but if you asked them who Norrin Radd was, they'd look back with a blank stare.

Those people aren't going to know or care if some details are changed, and those people, (not us) are Fox's market.

 

[Hunter Rider]

It seems to me from what ive read that they have sewn two arcs together and left the Galactus actually coming to earth part out.
We get the SS's arrival and then skip to the second SS arc where Doom takes his powers,after that they then use Galactus threat in a more minor way once Doom is dealt with.

That may not be faithful but it may work well as a movie

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It seems to me from what ive read that they have sewn two arcs together and left the Galactus actually coming to earth part out.
We get the SS's arrival and then skip to the second SS arc where Doom takes his powers,after that they then use Galactus threat in a more minor way once Doom is dealt with.

That may not be faithful but it may work well as a movie

There's a really interesting quote from Ralph Winter toward the end of the Empire article (and I didn't save my copy, and I'm hoping someone will dig it up and post that quote).

He basically says that Galactus may come to earth in the third film.

I think that would be great if true, and many of the comments we've heard (Ioan specifically seemed to be very candid . . . until someone at the studio shut him up) seem to support that possibility.

Can somebody please look up that Empire quote?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Remember this quote from Ioan?

Ioan Gruffud: It's more of a finite movie than the first one. It's not open-ended in that sense. But Galactus doesn't actually appear, so it does leave room for that possibility.

http://www.**************.com/news/articles/3356.asp

Of course after he said that, all the studio execs tried to put more vague spin on things, but I think he was speaking the simple truth and the studio is trying to confuse us to try to keep things under wraps and keep us interested (and get us talking about it so people will want to see the movie).

I think that simple statement was like the photo of Doom's armor. It was a little piece of information that got out by accident without the studio's approval.

 

[Kelly]

I think what Willie might have meant in his 1%, or at least how I read it, is those fans that are 25-30+ years in reading these comics, many of which are still collecting, and continue that love through outlets like this forum. There are MANY, MANY kids out there that love Spiderman, the X-men, Batman, Superman etc....but all they know of these characters are what they have seen on TV. The Fantastic Four really did not have that luxury like these others, yet it still did very well.

So I think 1% for the elite fanboys is correct, then you have varying fanship for probably the next 15 - 20% then you have the mainstream group that makes up the major portion of the BO. These studios have to please all of these groups....and unfortunately that 1% usually ends up being the group that is the least happy, and is usually the group that yells the loudest on forums like this. Since we spend alot of times on forums like this, when begin to think that that outcry is a nationwide, even worldwide thing. IMO, it is far from it.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think what Willie might have meant in his 1%, or at least how I read it, is those fans that are 25-30+ years in reading these comics, many of which are still collecting, and continue that love through outlets like this forum. There are MANY, MANY kids out there that love Spiderman, the X-men, Batman, Superman etc....but all they know of these characters are what they have seen on TV. The Fantastic Four really did not have that luxury like these others, yet it still did very well.

So I think 1% for the elite fanboys is correct, then you have varying fanship for probably the next 15 - 20% then you have the mainstream group that makes up the major portion of the BO. These studios have to please all of these groups....and unfortunately that 1% usually ends up being the group that is the least happy, and is usually the group that yells the loudest on forums like this. Since we spend alot of times on forums like this, when begin to think that that outcry is a nationwide, even worldwide thing. IMO, it is far from it.

Yeah, I think we're all saying sort of the same thing in slightly different ways.

I had a friend who worked in the marketing/sales department for a small newspaper, and he said they LOVED it when they would get an irate letter from someone "cancelling their subscription". Not that they didn't want all the subscriptions they could get, but he knew that if they ever struck a nerve like that, they were getting attention and loss of one subscription was nothing compared to the readers they'd pick up when people went to work and complained about whatever was printed and talked about it and wrote letters to the editor etc.

 

[Iron Maiden]

After what happened between Scott and Jean in the last X-Men movie, I can understand how Fox has a low credibility factor around here. But I just would like to add this quote from Avi Arad's interview last week at IESB (a site to trust because they actually get the interviews with the principals) just after the news about Laurence Fishburne broke:

IESB: We talked about it earlier today, the announcement of Laurence Fishburne being the voice of the Silver Surfer, Fox has said that they don’t know if Galactus will even have a voice, can we address the rumor that Galactus is a giant cloud or something like that, is there any truth to those rumors?
Arad: You know, that’s why they call them rumors (laughter), you will see more than a cloud, you will have enough Galactus to rejoice (laughter).
IESB: I know that Fox has said that there wasn’t a test screening of FF2 in Seattle, is that true?
Arad: (Laughter) I don’t know where that came from, you should know that every time someone said that they went to a screening of a Marvel property, they are full of it. We would never do that, forget it.
source: IESB.net

I agree with you Joe about the organic Doom part and once again I have to add Marvel as an accomplice to that.. You should have been around the FF message boards at CBR and Alvaro's when goat legged Doom showed up in the Ultimate FF, a really disappointing development considering how well Warren Ellis did with Doom 2099. But that was before he became a big shot. t: And Gah Lac Tus is his fault too.

As for the general storyline, I am also seeing elements of the Heroes Reborn Galactus saga. I don't think this needs spoiler tags, since Marvel recently reissued the trade (with the awesome work of Jim Lee). We meet the Silver Surfer long before HR Galactus shows up, around issue #5-6. Doom's agents have found this mysterious alien in Wakanda and bring him back right under the Panther's nose to Latveria. So in the arc of the HR storyline, that attempt by Doom to steal the Surfer's powers comes first, an attempt that is thwarted by K'lrt, the HR SuperSkrull. At the very end of the HR storyline, Galactus comes to Earth and his heralds Terrax, Nova, and Plasma set up giant crater like capacitors on the Earth to begin the process of draining the energy from the planet. Ironically, it is Victor that plays a big role in saving the Earth by using his chronal tech to jump back and forth in time to see which strategy works against Galactus. IMO the movie version of the FF is sort of an amalgam between Ultimate, HR and the traditional FF, with more of an emphasis on the first two. All of which, of course, are Marvel properties. Unless you want to split hairs about HR FF since that was sort of a loan out to Image Comics.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

After what happened between Scott and Jean in the last X-Men movie, I can understand how Fox has a low credibility factor around here. But I just would like to add this quote from Avi Arad's interview last week at IESB (a site a trust because they actually get the interviews with the principals) just after the news about Laurence Fishburne broke:



I agree with you Joe about the organic Doom part and once again I have to add Marvel as an accomplice to that.. You should have been around the FF message boards at CBR and Alvaro's when goat legged Doom showed up in the Ultimate FF, a really disappointing development considering how well Warren Ellis did with Doom 2099. But that was before he became a big shot. t: And Gah Lac Tus is his fault too.

As for the general storyline, I am also seeing elements of the Heroes Reborn Galactus saga. I don't think this needs spoiler tags, since Marvel recently reissued the trade (with the awesome work of Jim Lee). We meet the Silver Surfer long before HR Galactus shows up, around issue #5-6. Doom's agents have found this mysterious alien in Wakanda and bring him back right under the Panther's nose to Latveria. So in the arc of the HR storyline, that attempt by Doom to steal the Surfer's powers come first, an attempt that is thwarted by K'lrt, the HR SuperSkrull. At the very end of the HR storyline, Galactus comes to Earth and his heralds Terrax, Nova, and Plasma set up giant crater like capacitors on the Earth to begin the process of draining the energy from the planet. Ironically, it is Victor that plays a big role in saving the Earth by using his chronal tech to jump back and forth in time to see which strategy works against Galactus. IMO the movie version of the FF is sort of an amalgam between Ultimate, HR and the traditional FF, with more of an emphasis on the first two. All of which, of course, are Marvel properties. Unless you want to split hairs about HR FF since that was sort of a loan out to Image Comics.

Thanks for all the info. IM. I don't know much about the recent stories, so I'm always interested when someone can fill us in.

That quote from Avi also seems to be the strongest official word we've had that Galactus is more than the cloud. I'm going to steal it to post it over on another thread if you don't mind.

 

[Iron Maiden]

Not at all Willie, go for it. But with some people it probably won't matter...t:

 

[Kelly]

Not at all Willie, go for it. But with some people it probably won't matter...t:

I agree, I've come to the conclusion that there are a few that are as closed minded to the fact that this movie, might just be good.....as those that are closed minded to the fact that it might just be bad.....lol

 

[Tony Stark]

Remember this quote from Ioan?

Ioan Gruffud: It's more of a finite movie than the first one. It's not open-ended in that sense. But Galactus doesn't actually appear, so it does leave room for that possibility.

http://www.**************.com/news/articles/3356.asp

Of course after he said that, all the studio execs tried to put more vague spin on things, but I think he was speaking the simple truth and the studio is trying to confuse us to try to keep things under wraps and keep us interested (and get us talking about it so people will want to see the movie).

I think that simple statement was like the photo of Doom's armor. It was a little piece of information that got out by accident without the studio's approval.

I think it's also possible he didn't know. Most actors don't get a full copy of the script, especially for movies like this. They get all the scenes where their character is in, but they don't have everything. Seeing how Galactus will be a CGI effect anyway, there's a real possibility he didn't know.

 

[webhead731]

So is this book getting alot of bad reviews so far?

Does this mean they're screwing up the movie?

I'm getting really worried about it. I keep thinking it's just going to suck and be really corny and stupid. I liked the first one, I loved the teaser to this one...but did I read here about Johnny getting all of the FF's powers and fighting Doom?!

 

[Kelly]

So is this book getting alot of bad reviews so far?

Does this mean they're screwing up the movie?

I'm getting really worried about it. I keep thinking it's just going to suck and be really corny and stupid. I liked the first one, I loved the teaser to this one...but did I read here about Johnny getting all of the FF's powers and fighting Doom?!

????????? what? Yeah a couple from AICN didn't say too much good. Most around here a few other sites have enjoyed it for the most part....

Wait for the movie, go see it.....if you think its bad, then worry.

 

[webhead731]

Well I just came in here a few times to see a few bad reviews and I'm like "oh crap".
I really like Fantastic Four. I'm just hoping they do it right, you know?

 

[Kelly]

Well I just came in here a few times to see a few bad reviews and I'm like "oh crap".
I really like Fantastic Four. I'm just hoping they do it right, you know?

Well actually most of the negative comments are from people that haven't read the novel...lol

and actually I don't even know that I would call them negative, they are simply discussing their concerns about different aspects of the movie from what little they have heard.....so not really negatives, just concerns...

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Well actually most of the negative comments are from people that haven't read the novel...lol

and actually I don't even know that I would call them negative, they are simply discussing their concerns about different aspects of the movie from what little they have heard.....so not really negatives, just concerns...

I wish we could get someone on here who knows the Fantastic Four and didn't like the story so they could give us some specific comments of what bothered them.

I can see that some of the details that people have been complaining about would be concerns to many fans, but I've yet to see any real fans who have seen everything in context comment on what bothered them in this specific story.

There are definitely a number of moments that I didn't like

Spoiler

(Reed's scene in the nightclub, for example seemed out of character to me as written)

, but nothing that ruined the overall story for me.

 

[Kelly]

I wish we could get someone on here who knows the Fantastic Four and didn't like the story so they could give us some specific comments of what bothered them.

I can see that some of the details that people have been complaining about would be concerns to many fans, but I've yet to see any real fans who have seen everything in context comment on what bothered them in this specific story.

There are definitely a number of moments that I didn't like

Spoiler

(Reed's scene in the nightclub, for example seemed out of character to me as written)

, but nothing that ruined the overall story for me.

As far as your one point.....

Spoiler

in comics, has he ever been in that particular situation.....not that I know of.....so really how do we know how he would react.....as far as a scientist, absorbed in his work, and really oblivious to alot of the world, suddenly seeing it for the first time.....IMO would react exactly like that......lol

my biggest problem.....

Spoiler

again, Dooms dialogue.........if Julian can "can" the sarcastic stuff and say this dialogue with some force.....then cool........if not.......then I won't be anymore happy with this Doom, than I was with the last, except that he does some pretty cool stuff...albeit kind of gross at times....

 

[Mercurius]

but did I read here about Johnny getting all of the FF's powers and fighting Doom?!

lol, yeah, Superskrull kind of thing, isn't it? Man, what a mess.

 

[Kelly]

lol, yeah, Superskrull kind of thing, isn't it? Man, what a mess.

It's nothing like that at all.... in recent comics he has switched powers with Sue....so its certainly not unheard of in the comic realm, so why couldn't it happen in the movie.

 

[Mercurius]

Why not? Good ideas are always welcome.

 

[Kelly]

Why not? Good ideas are always welcome.

Que?

 

[Mercurius]

"It is so if you think so".

 

[Kelly]

"It is so if you think so".

Ummm, yeah...ok, whatever you say.