Official Marvel Comics-Political Rantings Thread

[iloveclones]

OK.

Rather than everyone complaining about the CW thread or the Ultimates thread being taken over by politics that barely have to do with the topic at hand, why not just bring it over here.

I'll start:

I think Ultimate Cap is George W. Bush's Ultimate Wet Dream. The dude screams totalitarianism while spouting freedom, democracy, apple pie, and free porn.

Discuss.

 

[iloveclones]

By the way, make sure you at least try to tie it to a current Marvel Comic or the mods, rightfully, will move it to the community forum, which will defeat the purpose.

 

[Darthphere]

I dont think this is going to work.

 

[fifthfiend]

I think it has already failed to work.

This will however utterly fail to keep me from involving myself.

Like this --

'Conservatism' amounts to nothing more than an attempt to give the wealthy free reign to yoke the rest of us into slavery while making life even more hellish for anyone unlucky enough to be a woman or minority, all under the aegis of 'Traditional values' which in any estimation I've ever made are taken from the tradition of 1300s, pre-enlightenment Feudal Europe.

Oh yeah, and Tony Stark sucks.

-- See? I just can't help it.

It's a sickness, it really is.

 

[kytrigger]

I think it has already failed to work.

This will however utterly fail to keep me from involving myself.

Like this --

'Conservatism' amounts to nothing more than an attempt to give the wealthy free reign to yoke the rest of us into slavery while making life even more hellish for anyone unlucky enough to be a woman or minority, all under the aegis of 'Traditional values' which in any estimation I've ever made are taken from the tradition of 1300s, pre-enlightenment Feudal Europe.

Oh yeah, and Tony Stark sucks.

-- See? I just can't help it.

It's a sickness, it really is.

Your view on conservatives makes this conservative sad...

While I unfortunately admit that some conservatives do feel that way, it is not the basis for most conservative thinking (unfortunately it is the most talked about, along with other wrong ideas of thought such as gay marriage etc.)

IMO most of these side ideas of conservatives are with the Old Guard. Will they change their ways, most liekly no, but the newer generation of conservatives definately can, and with all the groups I have belonged to, those side ideas are changing for the better, while the core beliefs are basically staying the same (and might be slightly modified with the progression of time as all ideas should be).

Oh yeah. Tony's being a *****e....

 

[iloveclones]

To be honest, I didn't really make the thread to get people to talk politics. I made it so every time they start up in the CW or Ultimates thread, we can all say, Take it here:

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253538

My other reason is to expose these people as not really wanting to discuss/debate the oh-so-complicated world of politics as it relates to comics. (I actually saw people accusing others of not being intelligent enough to "understand" Ultimates because they don't want to talk politics.)

 

[fifthfiend]

Your view on conservatives makes this conservative sad...

While I unfortunately admit that some conservatives do feel that way, it is not the basis for most conservative thinking (unfortunately it is the most talked about, along with other wrong ideas of thought such as gay marriage etc.)

IMO most of these side ideas of conservatives are with the Old Guard. Will they change their ways, most liekly no, but the newer generation of conservatives definately can, and with all the groups I have belonged to, those side ideas are changing for the better, while the core beliefs are basically staying the same (and might be slightly modified with the progression of time as all ideas should be).

Oh yeah. Tony's being a *****e....

Responding to my ridiculously caricatured views in this context is probably missing the point.

But then you're a conservative, which means you suck at everything!

... just like Tony Stark does!

 

[Doc Destruction]

How in the hell can you discuss either without bringing up the politics? Millar is obviously beating us over the head with it, are we supposed to pretend it isn't there?

 

[Darthphere]

Apparently so.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Personally,i think Civil War is a reflection on how America is right now.The superheros and such are the people divided on things,and ironically,much like Civil War,America has a conflict that is useless and not worth fighting over.Was this done on purpose?

 

[kytrigger]

Responding to my ridiculously caricatured views in this context is probably missing the point.

But then you're a conservative, which means you suck at everything!

... just like Tony Stark does!

Point made, but I go to an extremely liberal college and I hear the same things you said in a serious manner. I actually had a teacher say to us in class that if you have two people that are exactly the same in everything (go to the same college, same scholarships, same job) but one is black and one is white, the black person is probably a better person. And this isn't me drawing that conclusion, that was basically word for word of what he said.

And this is only one instance of biased stupidity I've heard.

As for Civil War being liek America is right now. I agree somewhat, except America isn't really at war with itself. Instead, America has decided to just ***** alot instead of actually try to change what they think is wrong/defend what they think is right.

Instead of trying to change for the better, we are lettting what we don't like happen anyway without a fight, but saying we're against it to give ourselves a clear conscience. While Tony Stark is being a total dick right now, the one thing you can't fault him for is action. He believes he is doing the right thing and is actually taking action to ensure his ideals are in place. Unfortunately his actions are underhanded and wrong, and his ideals, while noble at first, seem to be more a a personal vendetta now than when he started.

 

[Horrorfan]

My other reason is to expose these people as not really wanting to discuss/debate the oh-so-complicated world of politics as it relates to comics. (I actually saw people accusing others of not being intelligent enough to "understand" Ultimates because they don't want to talk politics.)

That was me who accused the ''others'' you speak of

I think that view of conservatisim that guy said above is incredibly dated. Conservatism has evovled with the times, while not giving in to PC garbage and soft spined stances it could be argued liberals adopt (lol they are so on the side of criminals over victims its not even funny, making excuses for someone who chose to commit a crime).

I am especially conservative in the area of crime. I believe in harsh punishments, the harshest avalible being especially for rapists, murders and violent offenders.

I see american liberals crow about how great a gun ban would be, and deny people the right to defend themselves. well this screws them because aside from the tragic shootings in canada recently, they have guns and the gun crime rate is incredibly low, and is probably lower than the uk where i live, where its out of control despite the fact we have a full guns banned (here in london a FOURTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL was arrested for arms dealing. these people could break into our houses with guns to do whatever they want and innocent people could have no real hope of fighting back).

I am progressive in a lot of ways. I do think affirmative action and illegal immigration (ie slave labour) is bull****, but on the side of pro choice, I agree. I dont think its great millions of potnetial people have to die because the mother is usually a big ****, but thats better than forcing them to keep it when it would be unwanted or dumped. I just wish more were done to express that having one night stands and unprotected sex is not especially smart, and that a decision such as an abortion should have some MEANING to it, and not just be something you can go into a cornor store, buy one and forget about it, to come back two weeks later and do the same.so i am pro choice, but more needs to be done to emphasise unprotected sex and abortion shouldnt be taken lightly, as it will lead to a potential life being snuffed out if it is nessecary.

I do think the american health system sucks though, and the american conservatives seem far too greedy (or bush for example). I am conservative and i know a few of us who hate him, and think the iraq war was an incredibly bad mistake.

I think people villify the us to extreme degrees, while forgetting that their own country is not exactly free of sin, and that bush is more incompetent than truly evil (i think so anyway). It really makes me see how naieve people are to compare the us to nazis or north korea, and pisses me off to be honest.


I have seen liberals really decimate my home country of england, with a mixture of bull**** political correctness gone totally insane and ideolistic ideologies and ideas that sound great but dont work in the real work. I honestly see the beef some people have with the older conservatives, but conservatives have progressed (or a lot of us anyway )

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Somehow I tend to believe any conversation of politics is relatively useless. There are stark definitions in the true meanings of Conservativism and Liberalism and at some point everyone decided that they had to be one or the other, labelling themselves and locking on the chains of dogma that come with it. Sure, I am a more liberal person than most, but what the issue in America today boils down to is that there are people who can look at the world in a connected way and there are those who are so far removed from the real world that they are unable to see. A liberal is often the person that sees the injustice and intolerance and will take steps to do something about it. By its very nature, conservativism implies that the "status quo" is better and seeks to keep it, despite that possibility that the current state may trample over the rights of others. The only problem is, any politician will be neither of these things and therefore are not good political leaders. The person running the rally will be more connected to the issue than the Congressman drafting the bill.

And I stopped following Civil War after Spider-man Outed himself.

 

[CConn]

The first half of your post was fantastic.

Yet you sorta lost me on the second bit.

 

[Eros]

I think, that Mark Millar and others of his generation, are simply just makeing fun of alot of things. Civil War is just a way to sell comics, the characters are all acting alittle weird, but the situation their all in is also freaking weird i suppose. Like in the Ultimates is basically the complete opposite of the orginal avengers comics. You either gonna find the characters in Ultimates to be Badass, or you are going to hate them. We all obviously were not alive for the golden age of comics during World War 2, but during those times comics were full of political messages. Captain america was beating up Nazis and Japanese on a regualer basis, Superman and the Justice society helped the allied forces religiously. You had over the top patrotism in every comic, but obviously WW2 was a vastly superior, vastly more popular, and more important war then whats going on in the middle-East.

 

[Horrorfan]

Somehow I tend to believe any conversation of politics is relatively useless.

I kind of see your point. The thing is, most of the time, two people with strong viewpoints won't be able to have a good conversation without it turning into a verbal slugfest at some point, and good points for one person may sound like total crap to another. I enjoy political debates, but you have to enter into them knowing that you won't be changing anyone's mind.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I've always thought of starting an "Official Official" thread.

 

[iloveclones]

Yet you sorta lost me on the second bit.

I asked everyone in the first post to tie it to the comics, so they wouldn't move it to the community forum. I think those one-liners at the end of a lot of posts are people kinda jaggin' me off. I get a kick every time I see one.