OK, Bat-Comic fans. Let's talk...

[Motown Marvel]

...about the Batman movies. I gotta say, i can enjoy a healthy bit of fan speculation and discussion on the movies. But it bums me out when the discussion is surrounded and distracted by ideas from people who have hardly even picked up a Batman comic, which then goes on to lead the discourse. This happens far too often in the movie forums. Suddenly you're swamped by ideas for the characters that in no way resemble the character being discussed.

So, with recent news on The Dark Knight Rises (i.e. bane, catwoman, etc...) how do you want to see the representation of these characters on film relate to their comic book counterparts? From what comics do you think they should draw characterization and design from? what comics do you see to be integral to these characters and where the story of the films may go?

Lets try to keep a focus on the role and inspiration you want to see the comics play in the films, so this thread doesnt get locked or moved to the movie forum.

 

[theMan-Bat]

I wouldn't have chosen Bane, but since they have I think it should be an adaption of Batman: Knightfall - Batman fighting escaped inmates from Arkham that Bane freed. Batman then must face Bale in a weakened state and Bane breaks Batman's back. With Catwoman I think it would fit best in Nolan's strive for his version to be believable to go with the Batman: Year One version - a dominatrix who simply becomes inspired by Batman's vigilantism to change her line of work and become Catwoman, an outlaw thief. Then simply incorporate Catwoman into the Knightfall story. She could come to his rescue in his fight with Bane keeping Bane from killing him. A romance between them could develop. She could, against his wishes, try to become his replacement as Gotham's guardian as he recovers from the injury to his back. Bruce becomes troubled by the influence Batman has had on her. Then he could return triumphantly in the end defeating Bane before hanging up the cape and cowl deciding that he could do more good at helping Gotham as Bruce Wayne. It practically writes it self.

 

[Motown Marvel]

i would love to see lots of elements of knightfall in the film, and im sure that will be unavoidable. i'd love to see bane break open arkham letting the crazies escape, throwing gotham into chaos, all for batman to mop up...leaving him fatigued. bane confronts batman, and beats the hell out of him. leaving him spiritually broken. but i dont thtink they'll go as far as breaking his back. thinking of his recovery time, time constraints of film wouldnt allow for that. plus it'd take batman out of the film for too long.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Yeah, Nolan's not gonna end his trilogy with Bruce Wayne spending half the movie in a hospital bed.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Well, the entire first half of Batman Begins is all Bruce Wayne out of the cape and cowl, dealing with his lose, struggling, training, talking. Like Batman: Year One, Dark Knight Rises could take place within a year, with the passing months written on the screen or stated in the film by people like Alfred, "You've been out of commission now for months, Master Bruce, Gotham needs you." Getting his back broken, the pain of that and struggling to recover could be emotionally, dramatically moving on screen rather than a bore fest. I think Bale and Nolan could pull it off without it being boring. Breaking Batman's back is what Bane's most known for. Fans are going to want that.

 

[Motown Marvel]

doing the knightfall saga would have worked awesome as a trilogy in itself. would have been a great follow up to nolan's trilogy. i just feel it'd be too much for one movie. but seeing bane drop batman over his knee like that pic above would be brilliant.

 

[DaveMoral]

The problem with doing Knightfall completely is getting a believable reason for why Bruce's back healed... I think ppl forget there was a metahuman healer involved in that in the comic.

 

[theMan-Bat]

A broken back can be repaired in surgery and healed over time in the real world with no metahuman healer involved. Usually, in surgery to treat a broken back, a fractured vertebrae will simply be fused to the one next to it, or it will be removed completely and replaced with a bone graft. Care must be taken to remove any bone chips or fragments that could cause damage to the spinal cord over time, then immobilize your back after surgery to allow for recovery. This may be achieved through the use of a traction body cast in more severe fractures, or a back brace. Once you are no longer using a brace or body cast, do spinal cord strengthening exercises that the physical therapist shows you how to do, every day, at least once or twice a day and build up the muscles around your vertebrae.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Bane has a long and unique arc that I can't see Nolan being able (or willing) to squeeze into this film, especially considering it's supposed to be the final film and I would assume return the focus to Bruce himself.

What I can hope for is that Nolan doesn't make the same mistake Raimi made with Venom (this coming from a fan of Spider-Man 3) and take a relatively sympathetic villain and make him almost entirely unrepentently evil (ironic, since Raimi did the opposite with Ock). Bane should have a code of honor, almost like a Predator. He hunts Batman because he is the alpha dog of Gotham. I'd like to see a scene not unlike the car bomb scene in Scarface, illustrating a no women/no children rule.

Nolan kind of already blew his Arkham breakout load in Begins, though I suppose its possible to do it again. It would be incredibly tragic to see all of Batman (and Dent's) work undone, essentially resetting Gotham back to the madness Bruce found it in back in Begins.

I would like to see Trogg, Zombie & Bird. Dunno if that'll happen.

I doubt we'll see the actual back breaking, though I'd bet money on a nod to it, kind of like in BTAS. Bane will definitely lift Batman over his head, or at least once threaten to "break him."

 

[Motown Marvel]

Bane has a long and unique arc that I can't see Nolan being able (or willing) to squeeze into this film, especially considering it's supposed to be the final film and I would assume return the focus to Bruce himself.

i actually wouldnt be surprised if he tried, unfortunately. he crammed two-face into a half hour, which was a real disservice to the character. one problem i've had with nolans recent films, mainly TDK and inception, is he tries to cram in WAY TOO MUCH.

 

[theMan-Bat]

A serious, grotesque Two-Face is what I was excited about seeing in The Dark Knight and Aaron Eckhart as Two-Face looked awesomely grotesque but unfortunately reduced to little screen time and then killed off.

 

[Motown Marvel]

it was a huge mistake to kill him off. he should have been set up as the lead villain for the third film and given the character his proper due. its a real shame thinking about the wasted potential.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Exactly. That's why I said I wouldn't have chosen Bane for the third film.

 

[Cain]

I'd say use the SECRET SIX comics for reference as to how to use Bane. However since the script is in the can already it may be a moot point. Many writers don't get the juxtaposition of a brawny dude with brains & a heart the way Simone does. This is why so many portrayals of the character save some exceptions have been rather inconsistent with how awesome and imposing he was in the beginning.

 

[Motown Marvel]

what're they doing with his character in secret six?

 

[Cain]

what're they doing with his character in secret six?

They're showing that he's more than just the man who broke the bat. A loyal, smart, able and sympathetic man. A great leader who is also a loving father figure to Scandal Savage (daughter of Vandal) and a great support system to his teammates. What they're doing with him as well as Catman and Deadshot (2 other very underrated Bat rogues that never go their just due) is just incredible to see. That book should be on everybody's pull list just on principal. It really is that good.

 

[Motown Marvel]

hmmm....i dont know how i feel about the sympathetic part. maybe i'd just have to read it though.

 

[Cain]

It's no different then touching on his past growing up in a third world prison. It's further humanizing what could've easily been a one note character. It's not like he's walking around hand in hand with the care bears.

 

[JStorm]

I haven't read Knightfall or any other Bane-related-comic in years; but I agree with the 'WTF' reaction we - the comic readers - are living.

Aside from sticking to Knightfall as closely as possible, one argument I've heard is that Bane could "break" Batman, just not his back: bones, spiritually, mentality, etc. But other's are quick to reply that th^t idea would be pissing on Bane and not allowing his full potential to be realized on film - full circle to B&R.

Another argument - outside of the comics - is Nolan already had a "break-out scene." My take is that this is a movie - comic world - and there are no rules. Just because Nolan has done one, doesn't mean he can't repeat. How many times has one villain or mass villains broken out of Arkham in Detective, Batman, etc? I know it would be boring to see on film again, but the point stands.

The fanboy in my says that one can not bring the likes of Bane in without breaking the Batman. This isn't a TV show and said people aren't using a name to bring in ratings; conversely, I do not believe Nolan would allow WB to push him around to put butts in the seats. They did that once with this character in B&R. Think about it, or youtube some trailers. Bane is portrayed as a BADASS, like the comics, all a ruse and for us to buy a ticket and see that he a monkey-henchman that repeats statements like Rainman. Nolan will not allow it - I hope.

On point, I know TDK was 2:45ish; but I'm willing to bet TDKR pushes closer to 3 hours and Bane breaks Batman's back within the first 30 minutes, giving us an hour or so of rehabilitation. If so, trust in Nolan and his track record. We waited close to an hour to see Batman in BB, and he used side characters, a news anchor, and the second scene to set up that Batman has been busy, not just sitting around waiting for the second movie to be made - in TDK.

The same can be done with Bane. TDKR opens with a bit of havoc on the streets, news anchors on film on voiced-over can be filling us in that Batman is still on the loose and other's like him are taking control, giving the GCPD more work than they can handle.

Just that idea is five minutes. FIVE!

Jump to a scene where Gordon and Bats are talking in secret about what to do, Gordon filling in Batman about Bane. Now we have set up. Bats is worn out from running, hiding, and protecting. . now having to play three roles (On-run Batman, The Batman, and Bruce) all to face Bane. They fight - hell maybe twice in two separate scenes - then to have Bats broken and rushed away to wherever.

30 minutes - TOPS!

Now we have an hour to break between Bane and Gotham, Bruce's come-back, and introducing Selina/Catwoman.



To bring this home to the thread question, I know KF is one large arc, while even considering Knightquest - it's huge. But take into consideration that this lowly fanboy can wrap his head around it. . I'm sure the guys that brought us Inception can do the same.

 

[DaveMoral]

A broken back can be repaired in surgery and healed over time in the real world with no metahuman healer involved. Usually, in surgery to treat a broken back, a fractured vertebrae will simply be fused to the one next to it, or it will be removed completely and replaced with a bone graft. Care must be taken to remove any bone chips or fragments that could cause damage to the spinal cord over time, then immobilize your back after surgery to allow for recovery. This may be achieved through the use of a traction body cast in more severe fractures, or a back brace. Once you are no longer using a brace or body cast, do spinal cord strengthening exercises that the physical therapist shows you how to do, every day, at least once or twice a day and build up the muscles around your vertebrae.

Yeah, that's great and real life and all. What's not realistic after that? Going out and performing at the kind of athletic levels Batman is. No MMA fighter is going to be allowed back in the ring after an injury like that. And I think the closest we can get to Batman's performance demands is that sport.

I also think it's a shame for Two-Face to be dead. I refuse to believe it really, because I want him to be a surprise villain so badly. I'd have loved to see something done with him ala A Lonely Place of Dying where the Joker is basically calling him from Arkham and pulling his strings. What with the way Two-Face's rampage is inspired by Joker's "logic" in the hospital it would make perfect sense.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Yeah, that's great and real life and all. What's not realistic after that? Going out and performing at the kind of athletic levels Batman is. No MMA fighter is going to be allowed back in the ring after an injury like that. And I think the closest we can get to Batman's performance demands is that sport.

Of course he wouldn't ever be back the way he was before. Batman don't play by the rules of the MMA. He doesn't have to return and take down Bane in a fight physically. He has many vehicles, hardware, weapons at his disposal from Waynetech. And I said he would retire as Batman after that. This is Nolan's last Batman movie were talking about after all. The end of his version of Batman.

The director does say that the third chapter in his Batman saga will be "the finishing of a story rather than infinitely blowing up the balloon and expanding the story."
http://movies.ign.com/articles/109/1094973p1.html

"Unlike the comics, these thing don't go on forever in film and viewing it as a story with an end is useful. Viewing it as an ending, that sets you very much on the right track about the appropriate conclusion and the essence of what tale we're telling. And it hearkens back to that priority of trying to find the reality in these fantastic stories. That's what we do."
http://www.thehdroom.com/news/Christopher-Nolans-Batman-3-Finishes-the-Story/6478

 

[DaveMoral]

^I really don't see it being left with a definitive end of Batman. And end of the story Nolan is telling. Which is the story arc. WB and DC are not going to let the franchise die or be open for yet another reboot. They are going to keep it going as long as they can make it fresh and exciting. Hopefully not until they run it into the ground like they did the last time...

I just don't see them letting the Tent Pole come down. They'll find another director, maybe ask Nolan to coach like they have with Superman, and we'll end up with new Batman flicks every so often... probably with a different Bruce/Batman than Bale, but within that world. I'd say we'll be safe, as fans, so long as they steer clear from any sort of camp and directors that have a love for the campy old days of Adam West and Burt Ward.

 

[theMan-Bat]

With Superman Returns Singer attempted to copy Donner and Routh attempted to impersonate Reeve's Superman and Spacey attempted to impersonate Hackman's Luthor, that obviously didn't go over so well. Hopefully instead of insisting another director attempt to copy Nolan and another actor attempt to copy Bale's Batman and another actor attempt to copy Ledger's Joker, etc., I hope that Warner will wisely be open minded about a Batman reboot and let another director take over that wants to do more comic book accurate versions of the Batman characters in live-action and embraces all the Batman characters as the flamboyant fantasies they are without Nolan's stubbornness for a "realistic" take.

 

[DaveMoral]

^Yeah, I don't know. While they may be open to finding directors that embrace that aspect I'd absolutely hate for them to be open enough for us to end up with another Schumacher travesty. I can see Nolan being the guru so to speak, as a means to keep the franchise relatively grounded but new directors and writers opening it up for other villain characters that Nolan wouldn't want to touch. More more sci-fi characters could be done believably I think, as BTAS shows.

I'm not keen on a reboot, and I'm still bellyaching about the Spider-Man reboot just a couple years after the first trilogy ended.

 

[theMan-Bat]

I'm against the Spider-Man reboot, that's a different situation. Sam Raimi and Tobey Maguire were not finished with their Spider-Man. That had to do with Sony's studio interference leading to Raimi's replacement after he refused to go along with what they wanted him to do with Spider-Man 4, Sony reportedly wanted Carnage as the villain. I like Sam Raimi's plan for Spider-Man 4 with John Malkovich as the Vulture, I would have liked to have seen that movie. The debate over who Spidey would battle is what continued to hold up the film, and resulted in the change-up in director's and the reboot. The Marc Webb 'gritty', teen angst reboot focusing on the new Andrew Garfield Peter's high school years doesn't appeal to me at all and neither does the new costume, etc. I'm not optimistic about the Spider-Man reboot with all photos of the new look and the reports of it being a dark, gritty Spidey influenced like Batman Begins. One of the things I enjoy about Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 2 is that it embraced the lightness, the sense of humor of Spider-Man comics. Spidey ain't dark and gritty like Batman.

Nolan and Bale are finishing their Batman with Dark Knight Rises. After that a Batman reboot featuring more comic book accurate versions of the Batman characters could be done in live-action without turning Batman into a campy comedy. Batman: The Animated Series managed to have Robin, the Riddler, Batgirl, Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, the Mad Hatter, etc. and took them seriously and managed to retain a dark, noir atmosphere. That could also be done in live-action.