OK...its time.....Man of Steel vs Superman Returns

[Loki882]

Please don't ever compare MOS with Transformers. For one, the action is much better (Michael Bay's schizophrenic editing makes it impossible to tell what the hell is going one). There was no racism, misogyny or lame jokes in this movie. No female was reduced to a sexual object (unlike Bay, who, as the Nostalgia Critic put it) could sexualize an empty chair. There was actual emotion and heart in this movie, there were actual consequences to characters actions. The movie was filled with emotional moments (Transformers had none). The destruction of Metropolis was genuinely horrifying, unlike the destruction of Chicago (the first two thirds of the movie was filled with crude, lame jokes and stupid plot points). I also didn't care because by that point, I was enraged that the enlightened Optimus Prime had been reduced to being a psychopathic lunatic. MOS had more emotion and pathos in one scene then the TF trilogy had in three movies. Trying to compare the two is quite frankly insulting to MOS. As you can probably tell, I hate Michael Bay. Also, it's a SUPERMAN movie with SUPERMAN fights, there is going to be lots of cgi (this criticism really bugs me, there is no other way to properly show off Superman's powers).

 

[blumatic]

Please don't ever compare MOS with Transformers. For one, the action is much better (Michael Bay's schizophrenic editing makes it impossible to tell what the hell is going one). There was no racism, misogyny or lame jokes in this movie. No female was reduced to a sexual object (unlike Bay, who, as the Nostalgia Critic put it) could sexualize an empty chair. There was actual emotion and heart in this movie, there were actual consequences to characters actions. The movie was filled with emotional moments (Transformers had none). The destruction of Metropolis was genuinely horrifying, unlike the destruction of Chicago (the first two thirds of the movie was filled with crude, lame jokes and stupid plot points). I also didn't care because by that point, I was enraged that the enlightened Optimus Prime had been reduced to being a psychopathic lunatic. MOS had more emotion and pathos in one scene then the TF trilogy had in three movies. Trying to compare the two is quite frankly insulting to MOS. As you can probably tell, I hate Michael Bay. Also, it's a SUPERMAN movie with SUPERMAN fights, there is going to be lots of cgi (this criticism really bugs me, there is no other way to properly show off Superman's powers).

MOS detractors: Loki882, Be reasonable.

Loki882: My friend, I have never been otherwise.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Oh good lord, no need for one of the horrible stills of Brandon. And Tom Welling IS FAR from following Reeve's foot steps, he never was not ever will be Superman. He can be Clark Kent of The Blur but never Superman. And Brian Singer gets Richard Donner's Superman, Zac gets comic book Superman.

 

[Loki882]

I'm not trying to be unreasonable and I don't mind people not liking the movie (I disagree with them, but I respect their opinion). But comparing summer blockbusters to Transformers is such as clichéd and cheap criticism. I've seen all of the TF movies and MOS, and there is no comparison. MOS outclasses them in every way. Also, there is another summer blockbuster that people may have heard of. It's entertaining, has looks of cool special effects and fights, but also somewhat simplistic characters and a simple yet effective good versus evil plot. It was simple yet still a great movie. It was called Star Wars Episode IV and it is undeniably a classic. Another such movie is Raiders of the Lost Ark. Just because a movie has a simple plot and characters doesn't mean that its not a great movie.

 

[blumatic]

I'm not trying to be unreasonable and I don't mind people not liking the movie (I disagree with them, but I respect their opinion). But comparing summer blockbusters to Transformers is such as clichéd and cheap criticism. I've seen all of the TF movies and MOS, and there is no comparison. MOS outclasses them in every way. Also, there is another summer blockbuster that people may have heard of. It's entertaining, has looks of cool special effects and fights, but also somewhat simplistic characters and a simple yet effective good versus evil plot. It was simple yet still a great movie. It was called Star Wars Episode IV and it is undeniably a classic. Another such movie is Raiders of the Lost Ark. Just because a movie has a simple plot and characters doesn't mean that its not a great movie.

I dont get this simple plot stuff. A movie shouldnt be complex for the sake of being complex. Just make the movie work.

 

[Loki882]

Just asked Spiderman 3 (that movie gave me a headache on so many different levels).

 

[blumatic]

Just asked Spiderman 3 (that movie gave me a headache on so many different levels).

And that film has a higher rating on RT than MOS. I've seen bad movies. MOS is not a bad movie. SPider Man 3 was the most ridiculous thing Ive even seen.

 

[Loki882]

Batman 1989 has a higher rating, with it's sociopathic mass-murdering Batman (he kills more people than the Joker), it's sloppy directing and editing, lazy writing and nonsensical third act. And the Joker killed the Wayne's (STUPID). Batman Returns as well, despite Batman barely appearing in his own movie, the Penguin being a lame villain who has three different schemes foiled in the span of five minutes, a Catwoman who's nuts and was licked back to life by cats, and Christopher Walken being the main villain. It should have been called Burton's freak show the movie.

 

[InJustice]

Batman 1989 has a higher rating, with it's sociopathic mass-murdering Batman (he kills more people than the Joker), it's sloppy directing and editing, lazy writing and nonsensical third act. And the Joker killed the Wayne's (STUPID). Batman Returns as well, despite Batman barely appearing in his own movie, the Penguin being a lame villain who has three different schemes foiled in the span of five minutes, a Catwoman who's nuts and was licked back to life by cats, and Christopher Walken being the main villain. It should have been called Burton's freak show the movie.

I will never understand the love Burton gets for Batman (should be aptly named Crapman and Crapman Returns). Never seen such disrespect for the canon (especially in his equally ******ed Superman project that never made to theatres...Thank Rao it didn't).

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Because it's one of the earliest successful superhero movies and greatly influenced the genre. The chemical weapon plot against the city has been rehashed for films like Amazing Spider-Man and even Batman Begins.

Also, it gave us a grappling hook, so Batman isn't awkwardly scaling buildings

But if the Burton films didn't come out at the time they did, they wouldn't get so much of a pass (besides quite a few fans criticize them).

 

[Loki882]

Nostalgia can be a powerful weapon for the dark side. Personlly, I believe that the first TMNT movie was ten times better than either of the Burtman films. TMNT was a honestly good movie with good characters, interactions, and character development, a menacing villain with motives that made sense, April was a strong female character, and Casey Jones was awesome personified. Also, the action scenes were much better. Yet critics hated it for some ungodly reason.

 

[Loki882]

The Lizard plot in The Amazing Spider-Man was a direct homage to a Lizard plot from the SM comics. In fact, it is the most famous Lizard plot and has been adapted frequently in other SM media (90's cartoon, SSM, etc). It had nothing to do with Burton.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Isn't a shame when less literal movies tend to beat adaptations to the punch? The death of Gwen Stacy would have been a 35 year old story when TDK came out, and if she dies in ASM2 or 3 people will be crying "just like Rachel!" :/

 

[Loki882]

True, sad, but true.

 

[InJustice]

^ Isn't a shame when less literal movies tend to beat adaptations to the punch? The death of Gwen Stacy would have been a 35 year old story when TDK came out, and if she dies in ASM2 or 3 people will be crying "just like Rachel!" :/

If she dies due to the same premise as the comics, I will only be laughing because of how ridiculous it is (which is ironic, because real life physics might agree with the comics).

 

[Loki882]

An expert evaluated the scene years later and concluded that it played out accurately to the laws of physics and gravity. If its done right, you might have half your audience in tears and the other half in total shock (Gwen was really fun and likeable in the first film and Emma Stone is just adorable).

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Batman 1989 has a higher rating, with it's sociopathic mass-murdering Batman

Batman IS sociopathic. He lies to everyone and has a double life. He operates outside the law>

As for mass-murderer... hello? What mass did Batman ever kill? As far as I remember he let the thugs at the beginning pof B89 live, and even tried to save Jack Napier's life. Sure, when it comes down to save the whole city or avenge the murder of his parents he doesn't mind to take a life or two. Which is something extracted directly from the early comics, and even Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne thought of revenge by killing Joe Chill.

(he kills more people than the Joker), it's sloppy directing and editing,

Joker killed dozens at the parade.

Please tell me where and when Batman killed so many.

lazy writing and nonsensical third act.

What is nonsensical about it? That Joker gets to kill the masses, as he does in comic books? That Batman comes in time to stop him?

And the Joker killed the Wayne's (STUPID).

Again, what is stupid about it?

Change the identity of the Waynes's killer... what does actually change?

And it's not like character merging hasn't happened before, and like dozens and dozens of times. Because I find it weirder and more different that Ra's al Ghul is Batman's mentor.

Batman Returns as well, despite Batman barely appearing in his own movie,

If you time Batman screentime in every movie, Burton's and B Forever are the ones that are with the highest percentage of screentime for the superhero.

There's a thread about it: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=335105&highlight=

But I'll sum it up:

Batman '89: 27:31 min/126= .216 or 22% of bat screen time
Batman Returns: 24:37/126= .193 or 19% of Bat screen time

Batman Begins: 24:14/140= .172 or 17% of Bat screen time
The Dark Knight: 27:36/152= .18 or 18% of Bat screen time
The Dark Knight Rises: 21:13/164= 13% of Bat screen time.



I believe the worst case there is Batman Begins. Because even when Batman was there, you couldn't see it and/or follow his actions.

the Penguin being a lame villain who has three different schemes foiled in the span of five minutes,

No, it was three during the whole movie, and two of them were used when the previous ones failed.

a Catwoman who's nuts and was licked back to life by cats, and Christopher Walken being the main villain. It should have been called Burton's freak show the movie.

Christopher Walken is not the main villain, but even if he were... what's wrong with it?

Some people ahave also said that Nolan's bat-movies should have been called "Police Drama Begins," "Police Drama" and "Police Drama Rises."



*************************************

I will never understand the love Burton gets for Batman (should be aptly named Crapman and Crapman Returns). Never seen such disrespect for the canon (especially in his equally ******ed Superman project that never made to theatres...Thank Rao it didn't).

What do you rate 'Superman Lives'?

 

[Loki882]

In BB, they were playing up the fact that Batman is a ninja and an urban legend (Ra's talks constantly about fear and invisibility). The fight scenes were shot in such a way as to emphasize the criminals fear and confusion about who was attacking them. Batman blitzed them and finished the fights quick with a minimal use of energy (and used shock and awe tactics). BB begins was an origins story so of course its going to be awhile before he puts on the costume (its an hour into STM before we see Superman in costume). The entire plot of the movie was built around Bruce and his development, so it is a Batman story. TDKR was also centered around Bruce's struggles. The fact that he isn't in the suit is irrelevant since the entire movie was centered around Bruce Wayne, who is also Batman. Batman 89 was about the Joker and BR was about Penguin/Catwoman/Christopher Walken. In Batman 89, Batman remotely sends the Batmobile into Axis Chemicals, which we know is full of people since a dozen of them immediately run up and start shooting the Batmobile, which then blows up the entire plant with a bomb five seconds later, killing everyone. He mows down a bunch of the Joker's men with the Batwing's machine guns and tries to shoot the Joker, and then throws several of the Joker's goons off the top of the church steeple. In BR, he lights three of the circus gang members on fire with the Batmobile and straps a bomb to the strong man's waist, smiles like a psychotic madman, and kicks him down a sewer grate. Sorry, but he killed dozens of people in those movies, even if you refuse to acknowledge it. Christopher Walken is cool, but I don't want a made up character to be the main villain in a movie with two of Batman's most famous Rogue's in it, its disrespectful. And finally, I don't give a damn about what other people call the Nolan films, that's their thing. To me, they are perfectly valid as Batman films. The fact that they incorporate stuff from other areas and genres is a bonus.

 

[herolee10]

I'm kind of curious to hear people's opinions on this:

If you guys had to choose between the Airplane Rescue Sequence from SR and the Montage Scene from MOS involving Superman trying to destroy the World Machine on time while Jenny and Perry fought for their lives, which would you guys say is your favorite? Both scenes conveyed the sense of urgency that Superman needed to do something quickly in order to prevent people from dying, along with having been presented as difficult tasks for Superman to accomplish.

 

[AnneFan]

World engine sequence by a mile.

 

[Jaxon]

I'm kind of curious to hear people's opinions on this:

If you guys had to choose between the Airplane Rescue Sequence from SR and the Montage Scene from MOS involving Superman trying to destroy the World Machine on time while Jenny and Perry fought for their lives, which would you guys say is your favorite? Both scenes conveyed the sense of urgency that Superman needed to do something quickly in order to prevent people from dying, along with having been presented as difficult tasks for Superman to accomplish.

The plane scene was a ridiculous set-up though, really let's launch a space shuttle from the top of a commercial airliner? How the hell did they think that was going to fly (literally and figuratively)?
Superman's rescue of that was pretty casual though, he spent so much time escorting the shuttle and was happy to let people pretty much die in the free fall (even though Singer basically let everyone unharmed at the end). And his attempt at holding the wing instead of balancing the plane from underneath was stupid.
World engine when Kal-El was standing under the gravity beam, WOW, how awesome did you get the sense of superman then, amazing.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

World Engine for me, but I also have never found the plane rescue exciting to watch.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

World engine sequence by a mile.

I felt "chills" when that happened. And this is a person that thought Batman dropping the nuke out in the ocean was kind of cheesy, and that he'd totally survive.

 

[Loki882]

The plane scene made Superman (experienced, established Superman) look incompetent. The world engine scene was better.

 

[InJustice]

I felt "chills" when that happened. And this is a person that thought Batman dropping the nuke out in the ocean was kind of cheesy, and that he'd totally survive.

You are not alone, I had maximum goosebumps when I saw Superman had his fist raised and was resisting the gravity beam. I took it as a metaphor of Clark literally having the weight of the world rested on his shoulders, and he perseveres as he flies against the immense weight. t: