Out with the Old

[Flash525]

It's no secret that the two most iconic DC characters are that of Batman and Superman, and they've both had several shows and films based upon them long before the DCEU. The DCEU was obviously initiated (loosely) with Man of Steel, the only reference in that film to something more was the Wayne Tech logo on the satellite taken out in space - but we'll call that an Easter Egg.

Fast forward to Dawn of Justice, and we're introduced to an established Bruce Wayne/Batman (and of course Wonder Woman). As far as the DCEU was at the time, there was no need to introduce Batman with an origin film, nor was there a need to focus on any Gotham villains.

Fast forward some more, and we get the Wonder Woman prequel and, more recently, the very successful Aquaman; a character that never before has been attempted or adapted for the big screen experience. My question here is, would the whole DCEU have been better had they started it off with a character that wasn't Batman or Superman, but rather one of the other league members (like Wonder Woman, Aquaman, or even the Flash), and to introduce (and include) the characters of Superman and Batman in the crossover [Justice League] films only?

We've met (in one or more ways) the majority of the Batman or Superman villains, and whilst different takes on them can work, we already know the characters - just as much as we know the two heroes. I'm left wondering whether a different take would have worked out better in the long run. The only question would have been which character to use to jump start said vision.

Or would it have been an idea just to jump straight into an ensemble film, and then focus on prequels and sequels once we'd have the characters introduced?

Thoughts?

 

[Deck Rickard]

Ensemble films can work (the X-Men movies are good examples of this) but I think it's far more difficult to do an ensemble movie when you have a number of super powered characters whose origins differ. X-Men works because everyone's origin is essentially the same; they were born with their powers and are the next step in human evolution. Sure, they all have unique backstories but some of that is easier to gloss over when the main thing that brings them all together is the same. When you have a guy with super speed who got that way by getting hit by a lightning bolt and getting splashed by chemicals, an all-powerful alien, an ancient Greek goddess, the king of the seven seas, a fully functioning cyborg and a billionaire who dresses up as a bat as a coping mechanism for a personal tragedy, that's a lot of ground to cover in an intro film. And then you have to have a threat that brings them all together. Perhaps a skilled director could make it all work but I have my doubts. I still feel the "Marvel route" is the best way to go, even though the DCEU has had some recent success with Wonder Woman and Aquaman.

 

[TheMalaka]

I say do a movie on Mars with J'onn J'onzz & the Invasion. Have the Green Lantern that protects that Sector cameo. The Green Lantern eventually helps J'onn J'onzz escape to Earth. J'onn J'onzz could be the one that unites the Heroes against the White Martians. Basically how it happened in the Animated show

 

[Iceman]

I say do a movie on Mars with J'onn J'onzz & the Invasion. Have the Green Lantern that protects that Sector cameo. The Green Lantern eventually helps J'onn J'onzz escape to Earth. J'onn J'onzz could be the one that unites the Heroes against the White Martians. Basically how it happened in the Animated show

This would be bloody amazing!

 

[frankgutz]

A lot of time in the movie was wasted in the search for Flash, Cyborg and AM, if we had them solo films first, the JL film would have more time to develope a good plot/history around the villain

 

[Flash525]

A lot of time in the movie was wasted in the search for Flash, Cyborg and AM, if we had them solo films first, the JL film would have more time to develope a good plot/history around the villain

You say that, but Bruce and Diana would have still had to recruit everyone, which would still have required the same screen time. There's only what, two scenes revolving around Barry and Cyborg which doesn't so much focus on the league, everything else is intertwined.

The only other exception [would have been] if the scenes between Bruce and Barry, Bruce and Arthur, and Diana & Victor took place either during, or in an after credit sequence of their own shows, so that as soon as JL opened up, it was obvious (to the audience) that they'd already been recruited.

 

[frankgutz]

You say that, but Bruce and Diana would have still had to recruit everyone, which would still have required the same screen time. There's only what, two scenes revolving around Barry and Cyborg which doesn't so much focus on the league, everything else is intertwined.

The only other exception [would have been] if the scenes between Bruce and Barry, Bruce and Arthur, and Diana & Victor took place either during, or in an after credit sequence of their own shows, so that as soon as JL opened up, it was obvious (to the audience) that they'd already been recruited.

Not rally, the can show up or get involv them through the plot, in the JL flim Cyborg wasnt 100% in control of his powers and Flash barely knew what tf he was doing, if they had them solos first it would be a different story, plus didnt someone said the plot/script was changed? the script was really a mess

 

[Mandon Knight]

the JL film would have more time to develop a good plot/history around the villain

oh it had all that, it was just cut out mercesily by people who didn't know what the F they were doing....

 

[FunkMiller]

There’s nothing instrinsically wrong with starting with an ensemble film, and introducing characters in it. It can be done very successfully (Into The Spiderverse).

WB’s problem was they hired the wrong man to do it.

 

[Flash525]

Not rally, the can show up or get involv them through the plot, in the JL flim Cyborg wasnt 100% in control of his powers and Flash barely knew what tf he was doing, if they had them solos first it would be a different story, plus didnt someone said the plot/script was changed? the script was really a mess

He seemed to have a pretty good grasp on his powers when he took down the Boomerang Boy in that bank. JL's failure is ultimately down to the (changed) script, and the director, but it's what we've got, and hopefully someone can build on it enough to rectify all the bad.

There’s nothing instrinsically wrong with starting with an ensemble film, and introducing characters in it. It can be done very successfully (Into The Spiderverse).

WB’s problem was they hired the wrong man to do it.

I'd be inclined to agree with this. The ensemble element worked in Age of Ultron where Wanda & Pedro were introduced. Granted Pedro was KIA, but Wanda became a central character in a film that wasn't about her. The same can be said (somewhat) of Clint & Tasha in the first Avengers film.

 

[frankgutz]

He seemed to have a pretty good grasp on his powers when he took down the Boomerang Boy in that bank. JL's failure is ultimately down to the (changed) script, and the director, but it's what we've got, and hopefully someone can build on it enough to rectify all the bad..

agree

 

[Yowza]

Here's a recent article claiming the budget of the Justice League movie nearly doubled when they took Joss Whedon aboard to direct.
Former DC Comics Artist Ethan Van Sciver Claims JUSTICE LEAGUE Budget Ballooned To $650+ Million

So... They push forward while meddling in midst of production playing it safe to not be so dark and try and copy a Marvel film then there's this... It's insane to spend that amount of money at the end of production just in the hopes of making it a formulaic cash cow to spurn out phases. The looming AT&T merger created the overarching pressure to get it out and they had a lot of catching up to do sure but the negative wheel of contextualization could just keep getting spun and this new article just adds to it.

People wanting to just sum up oh it's cause they went too dark with BvS I think may be partially right as far as making a tentpole comic movie goes but I think there's way more to the picture than this and it can be seen clearly with what happened since.

 

[Yowza]

Overall, Man of Steel was supposed to be a Superman trilogy similar to Nolan's Batman. It was a re-imaginging of the character in a modern sense (contrasted to Singer's attempt to sort of re-do the Christopher Reeve's films just a bit more stale as some may say). There was a lot of talk of even some spinoffs associated with these films too.

I've thought about this on these boards quite a bit about what could've worked and will just sum it up as WB needs a formulated gameplan with the correct organizational structure to provide clear steady guidance with no kneejerky reactionary films being made in post-production or trying to smudge too much into 1 film. I could go on.

 

[BH/HHH]

Personally I don’t believe that the budget ballooned to anywhere near $650 mil. That article sounds like the person who said it heard it as hearsay. I guarantee if Snyder has already spent around $300-350 mil on the film then they would never have ordered reshoots in the first place.

As Bruce Wayne said to Clark Kent in BvS “don’t believe everything you hear son”.

 

[Patchwork Man]

LOL! Ethan (who also happens to be a ComicsGate'r) works for DC, not WB. The article says he "claims" this and he "claims" that. (And that headline...oof! Where's the editor?!) I can understand his concern because of corporate downsizing, but no production budget of "350 million" was afforded Justice League, let alone double that. Now, did Joss ask for some serious coin to step in? I wouldn't doubt it. "I just directed two 'acclaimed' billion dollar-grossing superhero films for Marvel." But WB hired him, anyway. The thing is, when you see what Joss delivered, it begs the question "Why didn't you just hire somebody a lot cheaper to simply complete the film, like a Len Wiseman, who's now directing the Swamp Thing series?"