Paige VanZant signs with Bare Knuckle Fighting Championship

[famicommander]

The UFC veteran with an 8-5 pro MMA record has switched to bare knuckle boxing, signing a multi-fight contract with BKFC. No word on which weight class she'll fight in but they are hoping to get her a fight in November.

BKFC has made some noise recently. They signed former 2X heavyweight boxing world champion Shannon Briggs in April, and next month they are promoting Thiago Alves vs Phil Baroni. On their next card, 7-0 pro and former Olympic boxing bronze medalist Nico Hernandez debuts.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Well, an 8-5 record isn't exactly glowing. Is she known as a puncher? Can she take a punch? Looking at that face I can't see she's spent too much time getting hit without a headguard.

 

[Batmannerism]

The UFC veteran with an 8-5 pro MMA record has switched to bare knuckle boxing, signing a multi-fight contract with BKFC. No word on which weight class she'll fight in but they are hoping to get her a fight in November.

BKFC has made some noise recently. They signed former 2X heavyweight boxing world champion Shannon Briggs in April, and next month they are promoting Thiago Alves vs Phil Baroni. On their next card, 7-0 pro and former Olympic boxing bronze medalist Nico Hernandez debuts.

Yeah....why ? 8-5 is not that bad a record. BKB is a great way to get messed up for life, and get some serious facial scars ...think of it as cosmetic facial surgery without anesthesia done by a surgeon using a meat tenderizer rather than a scalpel.

Going to double down on that, just watched a bunch of BKB on YouTube. Holy crap those folks get messed up, especially the ladies.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, 8-5 in MMA is nothing like 8-5 in boxing.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I would assume it is because she is being paid better here then in the UFC. Dana had been playing her down for a while as a draw. Woman is super talented, but she is also very young and raw and thus was being put in there in very hard situations she wasn't ready to overcome quite yet.

 

[Batmannerism]

I would assume it is because she is being paid better here then in the UFC. Dana had been playing her down for a while as a draw. Woman is super talented, but she is also very young and raw and thus was being put in there in very hard situations she wasn't ready to overcome quite yet.

Maybe so, but BKB makes UFC look tame - people get seriously messed up doing that stuff. While there is a lot of skill in it, the UFC produces a more well rounded athletes with both stand up and ground games - there's a deeper level of skill and strategy. Still, I suppose if you just want spectacular KOs then BKB is the way to go.

As for Paige, I'm not sure if she'll have a long career moving to BKB - I mean Chris Leben did it for a while, but he's a little different story.

Okay, doubling down again - she's done modeling... after BKB she wont be doing that anymore ( also apparently she's got some grappling game, not mlm much use in BKB). I don't want to hold a sister back or criticize her decisions, but I can't see the logic behind the shift. How much is she getting paid ? Maybe that will make the choice make some sense.

Happy to be shown that I am completely off base here.

 

[famicommander]

Bare Knuckle FC pays better than UFC except for the top UFC stars and there are fewer traumatic brain injuries than in gloved boxing or MMA. 5 rounds of 2 minutes each and they can't throw as hard without gloves, plus there are no kicks, elbows, knees, or forearms. No ground and pound.

There are more face cuts and hand injuries but that's more superficial and won't affect long term cognitive function like trading punches for 12 boxing rounds or having your head pounded into the canvas from a mounted position.

 

[B]

Paige ZanZant? Is that the distant cousin of Paige VanZant?

Bare Knuckle's pay scheme almost mirrors the UFC, it's only the people at the top of the cards that make the real guaranteed money.

I just looked it up, in her last UFC fight her disclosed guaranteed pay was $65,000, $5,000 of which was for promotional work. Had she won, that would have been $125,000.. she might have been in for a slice of PPV revenue, however the UFC doesn't disclose that.

It was only a worthwhile transition if she's making $300,000+ guaranteed. Bare Knuckle is far more brutal & dangerous than boxing/mma, she has said in the past she makes more money from Instagram posts, sponsorship & modelling than she did from fighting. Well, given how much more likely damage is in BKB, you're potentially 1, long 5 round fight from potentially ruining your modelling career.

 

[famicommander]

Paige ZanZant? Is that the distant cousin of Paige VanZant?

Bare Knuckle's pay scheme almost mirrors the UFC, it's only the people at the top of the cards that make the real guaranteed money.

I just looked it up, in her last UFC fight her disclosed guaranteed pay was $65,000, $5,000 of which was for promotional work. Had she won, that would have been $125,000.. she might have been in for a slice of PPV revenue, however the UFC doesn't disclose that.

It was only a worthwhile transition if she's making $300,000+ guaranteed. Bare Knuckle is far more brutal & dangerous than boxing/mma, she has said in the past she makes more money from Instagram posts, sponsorship & modelling than she did from fighting. Well, given how much more likely damage is in BKB, you're potentially 1, long 5 round fight from potentially ruining your modelling career.

She signed a multimillion dollar contract. She's also doing some on-camera stuff and promotional appearances to make up some of that hefty pay, but she's making way more with BKFC than she ever could in UFC.

Guys like Jason Knight, Artem Lobov, and Hector Lombard have all said they make more in BKFC than they ever did in UFC.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Paige ZanZant? Is that the distant cousin of Paige VanZant?

Bare Knuckle's pay scheme almost mirrors the UFC, it's only the people at the top of the cards that make the real guaranteed money.

I just looked it up, in her last UFC fight her disclosed guaranteed pay was $65,000, $5,000 of which was for promotional work. Had she won, that would have been $125,000.. she might have been in for a slice of PPV revenue, however the UFC doesn't disclose that.

It was only a worthwhile transition if she's making $300,000+ guaranteed. Bare Knuckle is far more brutal & dangerous than boxing/mma, she has said in the past she makes more money from Instagram posts, sponsorship & modelling than she did from fighting. Well, given how much more likely damage is in BKB, you're potentially 1, long 5 round fight from potentially ruining your modelling career.

Her contract was up, and there is an indication that Dana was now low balling her. Considering her recent record, he probably didn't see her as the same asset, without the mainstream role.

 

[B]

She signed a multimillion dollar contract. She's also doing some on-camera stuff and promotional appearances to make up some of that hefty pay, but she's making way more with BKFC than she ever could in UFC.

Guys like Jason Knight, Artem Lobov, and Hector Lombard have all said they make more in BKFC than they ever did in UFC.

I dunno about that, in most cases the pay in the UFC is tied directly to how successful you are. So if you work your way up to headline more events, you'll make more money. In that respect going to BKB was the right decision because she'll almost certainly headline their events anytime she fights. However if she was headlining UFC events, particularly the numbered PPV's, it would unquestionably be more lucrative.

Lobov & Knight headlined 2 BKB PPV events together & in the UFC they were undercard fighters, in their 2nd fight they probably doubled their career earnings when you tack on PPV revenue, not sure about Hector Lombard.

 

[B]

Her contract was up, and there is an indication that Dana was now low balling her. Considering her recent record, he probably didn't see her as the same asset, without the mainstream role.

Considering she's 8-5, you could make the argument she has been overpaid to an extent in comparison to some of the other women in her weight class. Amanda Ribas was 9-1 going into her fight with VanZant & got paid half of what she got.

People make out like the UFC & Dana take the absolute piss with fighter wages, but the reality is the likes of boxing & BKB are no different. Unless you are 'the guy', you're all to an extent underpaid considering the danger of the job.

I was trying to look up disclosed wages for BKFC fighters & an ESPN article came up claiming on the low end of the scale fighters make as little as $2,500. Decent read if you're interested.

Blood sport: Bare-knuckle fighting emerges from shadows

According to several fighters, Feldman pays them fairly in the competitive combat sports marketplace. Former UFC fighter Artem Lobov told ESPN he made "in the six figures" for this three-fight deal with the BKFC. "It's more than 95% of what UFC fighters get," he added. Jason Knight, although reluctant to provide the precise amount he made in his first bare-knuckle fight, against Lobov, said the amount was in the "tens of thousands," and was more than he made in any of his nine fights with the UFC.

On the low end, BKFC fighters make $2,500 per fight, which is comparable to -- and in many cases greater than -- what they would make competing in smaller MMA promotions.

 

[famicommander]

Boxing pays way better than UFC or BKFC.

Canelo makes more for one fight than most UFC fighters make in their entire career combined.

Mega star boxers make more than mega star UFC fighters.
Popular boxers make more than popular UFC fighters.
Journeyman boxers make more than journeyman UFC fighters.
Boxing prospects make more than UFC prospects.

Across the board.

And that's obviously due to Dana White, because unless it's one of the absolute top end boxers fighting UFC usually does better numbers. Only guys like Canelo and Joshua draw better numbers than top end UFC cards.

That's why McGregor went out there and let Floyd absolutely embarrass him. Because he made more in that single boxing match he had a 0% chance to win than he did for every UFC purse he's taken home combined.

 

[B]

Boxing pays way better than UFC or BKFC.

Canelo makes more for one fight than most UFC fighters make in their entire career combined.

Mega star boxers make more than mega star UFC fighters.
Popular boxers make more than popular UFC fighters.
Journeyman boxers make more than journeyman UFC fighters.
Boxing prospects make more than UFC prospects.

Across the board.

And that's obviously due to Dana White, because unless it's one of the absolute top end boxers fighting UFC usually does better numbers. Only guys like Canelo and Joshua draw better numbers than top end UFC cards.

That's why McGregor went out there and let Floyd absolutely embarrass him. Because he made more in that single boxing match he had a 0% chance to win than he did for every UFC purse he's taken home combined.

You aren't really telling anyone anything they don't already know. It isn't true completely across the board though, in particular the mid-lower end of the scale ie if you've little preceding reputation. It also takes you longer or at least more fights to even become a real prospect in boxing & start to gain some notoriety, in most cases you're talking 20-0 by which point you've probably got your hands on some form of championship.

Before GGG smacked Kell Brook about & then obviously Canelo, he was between 25-35 odd fights in, a world champion & was only making between $250,000-$400,000 guaranteed per fight.

Oscar De La Hoya tried to argue Dana White was the root of all evil in regards to MMA pay, coming from boxing you'd think he'd ensure his MMA card(s) were paid out richer right? When he did Liddell vs Ortiz 3, the whole card made $580,000 combined, Chuck & Tito took $450,000 of that. The 20 or so other fighters on that card had to split $130,000.. what's that average at $6,000 or so? That's if it was split evenly which it probably wasn't, there were guys on his card that probably made less than $2,000.

 

[Batmannerism]

You aren't really telling anyone anything they don't already know. It isn't true completely across the board though, in particular the mid-lower end of the scale ie if you've little preceding reputation. It also takes you longer or at least more fights to even become a real prospect in boxing & start to gain some notoriety, in most cases you're talking 20-0 by which point you've probably got your hands on some form of championship.

Before GGG smacked Kell Brook about & then obviously Canelo, he was between 25-35 odd fights in, a world champion & was only making between $250,000-$400,000 guaranteed per fight.

Oscar De La Hoya tried to argue Dana White was the root of all evil in regards to MMA pay, coming from boxing you'd think he'd ensure his MMA card(s) were paid out richer right? When he did Liddell vs Ortiz 3, the whole card made $580,000 combined, Chuck & Tito took $450,000 of that. The 20 or so other fighters on that card had to split $130,000.. what's that average at $6,000 or so? That's if it was split evenly which it probably wasn't, there were guys on his card that probably made less than $2,000.

I think this thread is about Paige VanZant, rather than her lesser known cousins Paige ZanZant, Raige Can Rant or Waige House Plant.

It would be interesting to know the terms of her "multimillion dollar contract".

From what I've seen of BKB the cosmetic damage ( scarring, broken noses and facial bones) from fights looks pretty nasty - not to mention the concussion etc.

If she's getting paid for a lot of promotional work, then I get it - but if it's based around a certain number of matches then that's not so great.

Not to be sexist, but part of her appeal as a promoter of BKB is that she's pretty ( hence the background in modelling) - I don't see that lasting if she has to make regular ring appearances- because those ladies really smash each other up.

Bare Knuckle FC pays better than UFC except for the top UFC stars and there are fewer traumatic brain injuries than in gloved boxing or MMA. 5 rounds of 2 minutes each and they can't throw as hard without gloves, plus there are no kicks, elbows, knees, or forearms. No ground and pound.

There are more face cuts and hand injuries but that's more superficial and won't affect long term cognitive function like trading punches for 12 boxing rounds or having your head pounded into the canvas from a mounted position.

Have you got any medical evidence to back that up ? In theory BKB should be safer because fighters can't punch as hard or as often to the head without risking broken hands ( kind of like the theory that the cestus and the boxing glove made boxing more dangerous). Is there any evidence to back that theory up ? Clearly BKB doesn't risk joint injuries the way MMA does, or concussive damage from knee strikes, kicks or elbows - but those are low percentage strikes compared to punches (I've been KO 'd by a roundhouse kick ,many years ago, not a fun experience) . Anyway, it would be good to hear from medical professionals about the relative risks both long and short term - comparing BKB vs MMA vs Boxing.

Personally I wouldn't classify the injuries in BKB as superficial because folks are probably doing some serious damage to facial bones, and for those impressive Knock outs there has to be a lot of concussive force getting through the fighters' heads. But I'm not a doctor, so I have only an opinion but no evidence.


I remember reading a book about the early days of UFC and the pay was terrible- considering the risk of long term or even permanent injury.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Bare knuckle boxing is easier on the brain because the repetition of the beating of blows is what causes the longer term and bigger issues. It's why NFL linemen are so susceptible to CTE. It's why being a boxer is worse then been a MMA fighter long term. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions, but taking 300 punches in a boxing match with those big ole gloves is always going to worse then getting hit less, even with smaller or no gloves at all.

 

[Batmannerism]

You aren't really telling anyone anything they don't already know. It isn't true completely across the board though, in particular the mid-lower end of the scale ie if you've little preceding reputation. It also takes you longer or at least more fights to even become a real prospect in boxing & start to gain some notoriety, in most cases you're talking 20-0 by which point you've probably got your hands on some form of championship.

Before GGG smacked Kell Brook about & then obviously Canelo, he was between 25-35 odd fights in, a world champion & was only making between $250,000-$400,000 guaranteed per fight.

Oscar De La Hoya tried to argue Dana White was the root of all evil in regards to MMA pay, coming from boxing you'd think he'd ensure his MMA card(s) were paid out richer right? When he did Liddell vs Ortiz 3, the whole card made $580,000 combined, Chuck & Tito took $450,000 of that. The 20 or so other fighters on that card had to split $130,000.. what's that average at $6,000 or so? That's if it was split evenly which it probably wasn't, there were guys on his card that probably made less than $2,000.

I think this thread is about Paige VanZant, rather than her lesser known

It would be interesting to know the terms of her "multimillion dollar contract".

From what I've seen of BKB the cosmetic damage ( scarring, broken noses and facial bones) from fights looks pretty nasty - not to mention the concussion etc.

If she's getting paid for a lot of promotional work, then I get it - but if it's based around a certain number of matches then that's not so great.

Not to be sexist, but part of her appeal as a promoter of BKB is that she's pretty ( hence the background in modelling) - I don't see that lasting if she has to make regular ring appearances- because those ladies really smash each other up.

I remember reading a book about the early days of UFC and the pay was terrible- considering the risk of long term or even permanent injury.

 

[Batmannerism]

You aren't really telling anyone anything they don't already know. It isn't true completely across the board though, in particular the mid-lower end of the scale ie if you've little preceding reputation. It also takes you longer or at least more fights to even become a real prospect in boxing & start to gain some notoriety, in most cases you're talking 20-0 by which point you've probably got your hands on some form of championship.

Before GGG smacked Kell Brook about & then obviously Canelo, he was between 25-35 odd fights in, a world champion & was only making between $250,000-$400,000 guaranteed per fight.

Oscar De La Hoya tried to argue Dana White was the root of all evil in regards to MMA pay, coming from boxing you'd think he'd ensure his MMA card(s) were paid out richer right? When he did Liddell vs Ortiz 3, the whole card made $580,000 combined, Chuck & Tito took $450,000 of that. The 20 or so other fighters on that card had to split $130,000.. what's that average at $6,000 or so? That's if it was split evenly which it probably wasn't, there were guys on his card that probably made less than $2,000.

I think this thread is about Paige VanZant, rather than her lesser known cousins Waige Can Dance and Raige Can Rant.

It would be interesting to know the terms of her "multimillion dollar contract".

From what I've seen of BKB the cosmetic damage ( scarring, broken noses and facial bones) from fights looks pretty nasty - not to mention the concussion etc.

If she's getting paid for a lot of promotional work, then I get it - but if it's based around a certain number of matches then that's not so great.

Not to be sexist, but part of her appeal as a promoter of BKB is that she's pretty ( hence the background in modelling) - I don't see that lasting if she has to make regular ring appearances- because those ladies really smash each other up.

I remember reading a book about the early days of UFC and the pay was terrible- considering the risk of long term or even permanent injury.

As for BKB being less dangerous than UFC or Boxing - it makes sense in theory, but is there any medical evidence to back that up ? Those facial injuries are more than just superficial cuts and bruises and those KOs are pretty brutal. I would love to see any evidence related to injuries from BKB compared to Boxing and UFC . Clearly UfC has the biggest risk of serious joint injury as well as brain damage/death from carotid strangulation, not to mention head kicks, knees and elbows - but those are much lower percentage techniques than punches.

My theory (no evidence to back it up) is that BKB actually does more serious brain injury in a shorter time, whereas Boxing is less serious but accumulated gradually and eventually becomes worse. UFC is probably worst of all given that guys have had detached retinas and broken facial bones ( and almost certainly concussion) and add to that the chance of getting a permanent joint injury ( particularly knees and shoulders).

Would love to hear any medical evidence on the subject.

 

[Iceman]

Part of why boxing leads to brain trauma is people being protected after a KO with a 10 count to continue fighting for possibly multiple rounds or even till the end of the fight. The UFC finishes look brutal but they are usually stopped instantly and often save you from another 100 punches and having to try to operate in a competitive fight after you might have already taken minor brain damage. And consider this over a long career.

 

[Doc Samson]

I haven't seen a lot of BKB but I did see Paulie Malignaggi go in there and be very competitive (I thought he won) and he's far from a world beater.

That said, Paulie is obviously way more skilled in boxing than Paige. If it's for money, I get it, but I like to see people be able to thrive in their chosen profession instead of having to go chase a bag elsewhere. If she won more UFC matches though, this would be a moot point...

Part of why boxing leads to brain trauma is people being protected after a KO with a 10 count to continue fighting for possibly multiple rounds or even till the end of the fight.

True, but I would also add the lengthy amateur careers some of these guys have before turning pro. Guys like Lomachenko, De La Hoya or Roy Jones, who had hundreds of amateur bouts on top of boxing from an early age, already take a certain amount of mileage into the ring. Whether you're winning those fights or not, you're sustaining some wear and tear in the process....

 

[B]

I disagree with the notion that BKB is perhaps less dangerous than boxing or MMA. Maybe in terms of overall brain trauma, yes, because boxing is obviously more repeated constant blows & then MMA is a stage down from that however some overall facial damage in BKB is something you only ever see in boxing or even MMA in 1 in 10 fights.

It's not a sport you could expect to have a lengthy career in because the amount of damage after even a couple of tough fights doesn't take long to add up & start to claim tax.

 

[Batmannerism]

I disagree with the notion that BKB is perhaps less dangerous than boxing or MMA. Maybe in terms of overall brain trauma, yes, because boxing is obviously more repeated constant blows & then MMA is a stage down from that however some overall facial damage in BKB is something you only ever see in boxing or even MMA in 1 in 10 fights.

It's not a sport you could expect to have a lengthy career in because the amount of damage after even a couple of tough fights doesn't take long to add up & start to claim tax.

Would love to see the medical evidence on which sport is most dangerous, but as you say I suspect there are different kinds of damage ( boxing having more sustained brain trauma), and BKB turns people's faces into mush pretty quickly.

Does anyone know which is more serious? A 12 round boxing match where you get punched in the head 100x, or a BKB or MMA fight where you get KO'd by a kick, punch or elbow ? Probably too many variables to effectively compare them. But, having been KO'd by a roundhouse kick ( nearly full contact Karate) and had my nose broken by a punch I can say it wasn't fun at the time. Only did a little bit of boxing but it was a very different feel ( never got KO'd but had monster headaches the next day).

Again, would love to hear the science on this.

 

[famicommander]

I haven't seen a lot of BKB but I did see Paulie Malignaggi go in there and be very competitive (I thought he won) and he's far from a world beater.

That said, Paulie is obviously way more skilled in boxing than Paige. If it's for money, I get it, but I like to see people be able to thrive in their chosen profession instead of having to go chase a bag elsewhere. If she won more UFC matches though, this would be a moot point...



True, but I would also add the lengthy amateur careers some of these guys have before turning pro. Guys like Lomachenko, De La Hoya or Roy Jones, who had hundreds of amateur bouts on top of boxing from an early age, already take a certain amount of mileage into the ring. Whether you're winning those fights or not, you're sustaining some wear and tear in the process....

Paulie had no business in bare knuckle. If you asked me to pick one world level boxer who absolutely should never have considered a bare knuckle boxing match, it would have been Malinaggi.

He was infamous for his fragile hands during his gloved boxing days, and unsurprisingly, he broke both of his hands in his only bare knuckle fight. And he looked washed up in his final gloved fight, too. He embarrassed the entire sport of boxing by losing to an MMA fighter with a losing record.

Luckily there are some legit pro boxers in the sport doing it right like Ishe Smith and Dat Nguyen.

 

[Doc Samson]

Paulie had no business in bare knuckle. If you asked me to pick one world level boxer who absolutely should never have considered a bare knuckle boxing match, it would have been Malinaggi.

I don't disagree, he was never a big puncher and to your point, he wasn't exactly setting the world on fire, really since he lost to Amir.

But with all that said I still think he won that fight with Lobov. And that was my only point about Paige, she has much less of a pedigree in MMA than Paulie in boxing. If he got in there, was competitive, and still lost, I can't expect much out of her...

 

[famicommander]

I don't disagree, he was never a big puncher and to your point, he wasn't exactly setting the world on fire, really since he lost to Amir.

But with all that said I still think he won that fight with Lobov. And that was my only point about Paige, she has much less of a pedigree in MMA than Paulie in boxing. If he got in there, was competitive, and still lost, I can't expect much out of her...

The current champion in BKFC is Bec Rawlings. VanZant knocked her out in MMA. True, it was via a switch-kick which is not legal in BKFC, but still.

As for Paulie, he didn't throw a punch in the 5th round. That's why he lost, and that's why he deserved to lose. BKFC favors aggression and damage more than anything else.