Dark Phoenix Phoenix must be destroyed!" The Official Lilandra Thread

[Silvermoth]

Yeah but I don't want to see Emma and Charles hook up lol

 

[Lip]

Well I didn't want to see Mystique as Charles dear and beloved sister, something completely different from the comics and even inconsistent with their own story in the OT.

Oh, and I didn't want to see Mystique leading the X-Men in a team with Scott, Storm and Jean. But...

Anyway, I think Lilandra and Frost should have each one their own role. But that in a good adaptation.

I'd love to see Jones back as Emma.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Charles and Mystique being foster siblings is not "inconsistent" with X1, X2, and TLS; it's a retcon , and, as such, adjusts the context of those films.

 

[Silvermoth]

Yeah, I'm one of the people who really liked mystique and how she has grown from a person with body issues into a leader

 

[psylockolussus]

Raven is nothing like from the comics and just took away focus from the actual X-Men! Her change to mentor/hero/mutant model is just not very ideal. If anything, Xavier or the other X-Men should be the face of mutantkind not freaking Mystique.

 

[DigificWriter]

It's a gross overgeneralization to claim that Mystique's evolution from villain to hero and leader has taken the focus away from other charavters, and, often, it's used as nothing more than an excuse to have someone to criticize these films for.

On-topic, though, I'm surprised that we haven't heard or seen much in terms of Jessica Chastain's specific 'look' and role in the film given the fact that they've been filming for more than two months now.

 

[marvelrobbins]

It's a gross overgeneralization to claim that Mystique's evolution from villain to hero and leader has taken the focus away from other charavters, and, often, it's used as nothing more than an excuse to have someone to criticize these films for.

On-topic, though, I'm surprised that we haven't heard or seen much in terms of Jessica Chastain's specific 'look' and role in the film given the fact that they've been filming for more than two months now.

yeah well now that jackman is gone bashing lawrence,even when she is only on set for a month,is the new passtime for haters.

with apocalypse she wasn't even female character with arc.that was jean.Apocalypse focused on 6 characters-Xavier,magneto,mystique,Apoclypse,
jean,and cyclops

with dark phoenix people don't even pat attention.THR report had ilandra as alien empress who comes to earth to capture and kill jean and some totaly ignore it

 

[X-Maniac]

with apocalypse she wasn't even female character with arc.

Don't be absurd. Of course Mystique had an arc - she went from a reluctant hero (and was still a vigilante, rescuing Nightcrawler and whoever else) to embracing her true self and becoming leader of the X-Men.

that was jean.Apocalypse focused on 6 characters-Xavier,magneto,mystique,Apoclypse,
jean,and cyclops

It focused on Cyclops? What film were you watching?

 

[X-Maniac]

It's a gross overgeneralization to claim that Mystique's evolution from villain to hero and leader has taken the focus away from other charavters, and, often, it's used as nothing more than an excuse to have someone to criticize these films for.

At least you admit she was the leader. Several of the desperate defenders on here deny that she was the leader.

The problem is that she should not be the leader. It's a mischaracterisation and a bastardisation.

On-topic, though, I'm surprised that we haven't heard or seen much in terms of Jessica Chastain's specific 'look' and role in the film given the fact that they've been filming for more than two months now.

We haven't 'heard or seen much' of anything, let alone Chastain. Everything is under wraps.

 

[DigificWriter]

The problem is that should not be the leader.

There's no such thing as "should" here.

The writers and producers of the XMCU - or ANY adapted franchise, for that matter - can make whatever changes/additions to the source material that they see fit in order to facilitate their ability to make the best adaptation possible and/or tell the story that they want to tell, because that's what making an adaptation entails.

 

[Lip]

Yeah, I'm one of the people who really liked mystique and how she has grown from a person with body issues into a leader

Yeah. Now she is a blonde white girl most of the time, including when she is in the mansion with people she has a intimate and personal relationship. Great way to overcome her image issues.

Mutant and proud, huh?

There is no "should" here.

The writers and producers of the XMCU - or ANY adapted franchise, for that matter - can make whatever changes/additions to the source material that they see fit in order to facilitate their ability to make the best adaptation possible and/or tell the story that they want to tell, because that's what making an adaptation entails.

They sure are free to make the changes they feel it's necessary to tell the best story, but let's not fool ourselves here. We all know those changes were made to fit JLaw's popularity.

Can they turn Mystique into the leader of the X-Men? Yes, and they did it. But do the audience like it? Is it really to tell the best story? We all know the complaints about her does not come only from X-Men boards. Forcing Raven down our throats it's simply not working. And it shows.

 

[GuestStar2004]

They sure are free to make the changes they feel it's necessary to tell the best story, but let's not fool ourselves here. We all know those changes were made to fit JLaw's popularity.

No we do not know that, its just an assumption based on people being more aware of whose playing the role now.

She had a pretty big part in FC, infact she had more depth then alot of the other characters and she wasn't even known as Jlaw yet, but people only remember the point where she become big which was around DOFP and take it to mean they they wrote mystique around her becoming big.

But what would you assume would have been the direction they would have taken mystique if jlaw had not hit it big? i gather even after all the charles sister relationship stuff they built up you would guess they would place her second fiddle to magneto as a lacky again in a much tiny role?

 

[Lip]

At the end of FC she chose to join Eric and the brotherhood. And the journey of the FC trio was related to the comics. Charles would become the Prof X we know, Eric would become the Magneto we know, and Raven would become Mystique. From the end of FC they could've taken her in a more "villainous" role or an independent role. They chose the heroic blonde white girl version because it's Jlaw. It's undeniable they're changing the character to fit her popularity.

 

[GuestStar2004]

At the end of FC she chose to join Eric and the brotherhood. And the journey of the FC trio was related to the comics. Charles would become the Prof X we know, Eric would become the Magneto we know, and Raven would become Mystique. From the end of FC they could've taken her in a more "villainous" role or an independent role. They chose the heroic blonde white girl version because it's Jlaw. It's undeniable they're changing the character to fit her popularity.

Its easy to tell what happened, they made the movie and concluded it enough to fit the OT in case there wouldn't be a sequel and then FOX greenlit a sequel and they decided they had to shake things up abit from FC.

With Mystique they pretty much reversed the character in FC so she was nothing like she was in the OT so they likely always had plans to progress her in some form or another.

Now arguing that she is only a good guy because its Jlaw is the same as people arguing or joking that Mystique will save the day each movie... its a false misconception since when has mystique actually saved in the day in these movies? she tried to kill trask and was stopped by charles in DOFP, and with apocalypse she was taken out of the battle before the conclusion.

I don't believe they made mystique good purely because it was lawrence as they could have made her bad and still did stuff with lawrence that made her look good on screen.

 

[marvelrobbins]

There's no such thing as "should" here.

The writers and producers of the XMCU - or ANY adapted franchise, for that matter - can make whatever changes/additions to the source material that they see fit in order to facilitate their ability to make the best adaptation possible and/or tell the story that they want to tell, because that's what making an adaptation entails.

i could say the same thing on spider-man homecoming on many things.of course when marvel studios does it they are ok.

there is no evidence mystique is leader in dp.at best lawrence was on set for a month.both her makeup artist and stunt double reportly have wraped.hardly sounds like dp is revolving around her.hell apocalypse didn't even revolve all around her.yeah she gave orders when they arrived in cario but after that she did little but try to talk to magneto and get taken out by apocalypse.and give orders during training at tailend scene.

with jackman gone she will be the thing haters focus on.

the sad thing is i have seen lawrence fanpages on twitter support dark phoenix more than so called fans.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Its easy to tell what happened, they made the movie and concluded it enough to fit the OT in case there wouldn't be a sequel and then FOX greenlit a sequel and they decided they had to shake things up abit from FC.

With Mystique they pretty much reversed the character in FC so she was nothing like she was in the OT so they likely always had plans to progress her in some form or another.

Now arguing that she is only a good guy because its Jlaw is the same as people arguing or joking that Mystique will save the day each movie... its a false misconception since when has mystique actually saved in the day in these movies? she tried to kill trask and was stopped by charles in DOFP, and with apocalypse she was taken out of the battle before the conclusion.

I don't believe they made mystique good purely because it was lawrence as they could have made her bad and still did stuff with lawrence that made her look good on screen.

entire plot of dofp devolped back in 2012 was about convincing mystique
not to kill trask.this in part was done to have their time travel "Reboot"

mystique in apocalypse really did nothing except bring nightcrawler to mansion and talk to magneto which led to his betreyal of apocalypse.

 

[Frankeh]

Its easy to tell what happened, they made the movie and concluded it enough to fit the OT in case there wouldn't be a sequel and then FOX greenlit a sequel and they decided they had to shake things up abit from FC.

With Mystique they pretty much reversed the character in FC so she was nothing like she was in the OT so they likely always had plans to progress her in some form or another.

So you're admitting they didn't have plans because if they did they wouldn't have concluded FC as if she was going to become the OT Mystique only to backtrack in the next movie.

These movies have always been thought one movie at a time, everyone knows this and they've admitted it themselves.

mystique in apocalypse really did nothing

So what's the excuse for bringing back a character who does nothing?

I don't expect an answer.

 

[GuestStar2004]

So you're admitting they didn't have plans because if they did they wouldn't have concluded FC as if she was going to become the OT Mystique only to backtrack in the next movie.

You can tell the plan was always to do more since even singer spoke about possible sequel plans back in 2011 with IGN, but it was still better to put certain things in place just in case there wasn't

Now obviously the mystque that left with magneto wasn't OT mystique but you probably could get away with saying in that time in between the 60s and X1 something changed.

So what's the excuse for bringing back a character who does nothing?

I don't expect an answer.

To do something with them?

That was a fairly easy answer.

 

[Frankeh]

To do something with them?

That was a fairly easy answer.

Oh really? I thought that Mystique wasn't going to do much in this movie either because she was absent from filming for a month

Even the defenders have to downplay her role to make it feel less frustrating.

 

[Lip]

So what's the excuse for bringing back a character who does nothing?

I don't expect an answer.

She did nothing in Apocalypse. She only had a character arc going from a reluctant hero to embrassing herself as a role model and becoming the leader of the X-Men. A character arc that Storm didn't have, Jubilee didn't have, Psylocke didn't have, Alex didn't have, Angel didn't have. Just to name a few.

Oh, and both Storm and Scott, some of the most iconic leaders of the X-Men were there.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Oh really? I thought that Mystique wasn't going to do much in this movie either because she was absent from filming for a month

Even the defenders have to downplay her role to make it feel less frustrating.

Whats to down play? she is in the movie and will have something to do.

If anything people downplay her role just to stop people over obsessing and making a mountain out of a mole hill, which tends to happen way too often with nearly anything.

 

[DigificWriter]

There was no "backtracking" in Days of Future Past; all that happened after the end of First Class is that they came up with the idea of doing the DoFP story and creating an alternate timeline, which, if you're watching the films in the correct order, doesn't actually effect where Mystique went after the events of FC at all because she had decades in which she was imprisoned and experimented on by Trask (which is how she became who she was in X1).

At any rate, though, this has nothing whatsoever to do with Lilandra, so it should be taken elsewhere.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Lol i actually forgot it was the Lilandra thread tbh.

 

[Frankeh]

If anything people downplay her role just to stop people over obsessing and making a mountain out of a mole hill,

Sounds pointless giving false expectations, you're only delaying the complaining. Unless a miracle happens and Kinberg makes her likable again.

 

[DigificWriter]

Mystique is plenty likeable just as she is... and that's the last thing I'm saying about her in this thread, which isn't even ABOUT her.

It'll be interesting to see how far they go with Jessica Chastain's Lilandra's villainy and if they make her straight-up evil or merely antagonistic and have her villainy arise strictly from the fact that her designs on capturing Jean clash with the X-Men's purpose in wanting to help her control her powers.