Pilot that dropped the bomb on Hiroshima dies at 92

[Concept Name]

So you know the guy?

he doesnt regret killing thousands of children....thats enough for me.

 

[danoyse]

Those are both good things but doesn't change the fact that we didn't know who(the japanese, ie: which ones if any) at the time to trust. Is it messed up? A little. Should we do it again with people who are of middle eastern decent because of what's going on with terrorism and the war? No, but at the time for having a full on World War it was a safety precaution.

I don't agree with General DeWitt's thoughts on "A Japs a Jap". My reasoning for it wasn't out of racism like "all japanese are going to attack us" or anything ignorant like that, it was just safety precaution out of paranoia during a major World War.

Nearly half the people we sent off to internment camps were children. Many died from inadequate health care facilities in the camps in which their families were incarcerated in for up to four years, living in substandard housing and surrounded by armed guards and barbed wire fences. No one was ever charged with espionage.

That's more than just an..."oops, our bad. Didn't know if you were a spy or not." It was absolutely shameful.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

FigmanJ, if it wasn't racism, it's as simple as this...show me the camps for the German-Americans and Italian-Americans.
Where were those camps?

 

[Jerry!]

i dont see how this guy is special other than the fact that he is a heartless old guy that didnt deserve to live that long.

Wow. That dude was Original Baby Killa! R.I.H. You sorry son of a b**ch!

What the ****...

First of all, its not like the guy personally made the call and decision to drop the bomb, he was just doing his job. If you are that much against the move to drop the atomic bomb, don't put the blame on him. Do you know what would have happened if he were to disobey that order? Someone else would have done it anyway and he may have been court martialed or worse.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

What the ****...

First of all, its not like the guy personally made the call and decision to drop the bomb, he was just doing his job. If you are that much against the move to drop the atomic bomb, don't put the blame on him. Do you know what would have happened if he were to disobey that order? Someone else would have done it anyway and he may have been court martialed or worse.

This argument didn't work for the Nazi officers who were "just doing their jobs", not wanting to kill Jews, but forced to by their superiors, and it doesn't work here either.

 

[Addendum]

I'm not sure whether the order to drop the atomic bomb was an illegal order.

 

[Jerry!]

This argument didn't work for the Nazi officers who were "just doing their jobs", not wanting to kill Jews, but forced to by their superiors, and it doesn't work here either.

It was that or die. Thats war. Its not pretty, its not right, its just the way it is. I'm sorry, I know its a cliche answer, but there really isn't any other answer. Everybody did what they had to do to survive. And this guy wasn't the one who made the decision to drop the bomb. It would have happened whether he declined or whatever, it was still going to happen. Seriously what is it you don't understand about this?

 

[PemLam]

It was that or die. Thats war. Its not pretty, its not right, its just the way it is. I'm sorry, I know its a cliche answer, but there really isn't any other answer. Everybody did what they had to do to survive.

WTF? Are you saying the Nazi's murdered millions of Jews because they feared for their survival? Are you f***ing high?

 

[Figs]

Nearly half the people we sent off to internment camps were children. Many died from inadequate health care facilities in the camps in which their families were incarcerated in for up to four years, living in substandard housing and surrounded by armed guards and barbed wire fences. No one was ever charged with espionage.

That's more than just an..."oops, our bad. Didn't know if you were a spy or not." It was absolutely shameful.

Nearly half of them huh?? Can you prove this?? If not im going to assume it's the safety card answer "the little children" .

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Nazi officers, no. Just regular everyday Nazi infantrymen? Different story.

Nope.
Right's right and Wrong's wrong. Doesn't matter how many stars are on your helmet.
I'm not against dropping the bomb, but it should've been dropped on a military target, for instance, a place where there weren't any babies nursing at their mother's breast.

We Americans act like Pearl Harbor was such an atrocity, and that was just an unprovoked attack on a few dudes and their planes.
If anyone else had SPECIFICALLY chosen a NON-MILITARY target, for the purpose of blowing up little old ladies, and children along with their mothers, like if Japan bombed Kansas, you know damn well we'd think they were beneath the lowest of the lows of Evil.

But, hey, we're AMERICA, so WE can do it, and it's somehow RIGHT.

 

[Jerry!]

WTF? Are you saying the Nazi's murdered millions of Jews because they feared for their survival? Are you f***ing high?

No, I'm talking about the ****ing pilot. Jesus christ, way to jump to an insane conclusion. If he disobeys an order like that, who the bad place knows what can happen to him, but its going to be severe whatever it is. He isn't stopping anything by refusing to drop the bomb.

 

[PemLam]

I'm not sure whether the order to drop the atomic bomb was an illegal order.

It couldn't have been an illegal order because Congress officially declared war and the President as Commander in Chief gave the order to bomb both cities.

There's also historical documentation in the Federal Archives showing the meetings Truman had with Congressional leaders about the planned strikes prior to the bombings. If congress okay'd it and the president ordered it; it's not illegal.

 

[Jerry!]

Nope.
Right's right and Wrong's wrong. Doesn't matter how many stars are on your helmet.
I'm not against dropping the bomb, but it should've been dropped on a military target, for instance, a place where there weren't any babies nursing at their mother's breast.

We Americans act like Pearl Harbor was such an atrocity, and that was just an unprovoked attack on a few dudes and their planes.
If anyone else had SPECIFICALLY chosen a NON-MILITARY target, for the purpose of blowing up little old ladies, and children along with their mothers, like if Japan bombed Kansas, you know damn well we'd think they were beneath the lowest of the lows of Evil.

But, hey, we're AMERICA, so WE can do it, and it's somehow RIGHT.

The guy flying the plane has no control over where its decided to drop the bomb. Thats what I am saying. If you're angry over that fine, don't blame the pilot, blame the people giving him the orders. I'm not arguing against that. Leave the guy who flies the plane alone.

 

[PemLam]

No, I'm talking about the ****ing pilot. Jesus christ, way to jump to an insane conclusion. If he disobeys an order like that, who the bad place knows what can happen to him, but its going to be severe whatever it is. He isn't stopping anything by refusing to drop the bomb.

I know you were talking about the pilot, but you lumped his orders together with the Nazi's...differentiate next time.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

The guy flying the plane has no control over where its decided to drop the bomb. Thats what I am saying. If you're angry over that fine, don't blame the pilot, blame the people giving him the orders. I'm not arguing against that. Leave the guy who flies the plane alone.

Okay, if I was in Viet Nam, and my commanding officer told me to stick a bayonet in a baby to send a message to the villagers, I myself would have to refuse.

You would go right ahead, unhappy about impaling the baby, but secure in the knowledge that, hey, if YOU didn't obey the orders, you'd just go to the brig and someone ELSE WOULD impale the baby anyway, so why not do it?


This is cool, we learn a lot about our fellow humans on the Hype.

 

[Figs]

Nope.
Right's right and Wrong's wrong. Doesn't matter how many stars are on your helmet.
I'm not against dropping the bomb, but it should've been dropped on a military target, for instance, a place where there weren't any babies nursing at their mother's breast.

We Americans act like Pearl Harbor was such an atrocity, and that was just an unprovoked attack on a few dudes and their planes.
If anyone else had SPECIFICALLY chosen a NON-MILITARY target, for the purpose of blowing up little old ladies, and children along with their mothers, like if Japan bombed Kansas, you know damn well we'd think they were beneath the lowest of the lows of Evil.

But, hey, we're AMERICA, so WE can do it, and it's somehow RIGHT.

Whatever the **** ever dude!! That was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse than "just a few dudes and their planes". I bet you don't know a single person who survived it as usual and are just throwing out generalities.

I used to go with my dad to the VA hospital(well he would make me, when I was younger), I've heard a good number of first hand stories. It wasn't just a few dudes and their planes, the japs also hit nearby shelter/medical rooms killing nurses and possible already injured people. Sorry, but I don't like under or over exagerated facts/opinions to prove a point.

 

[Jerry!]

Okay, if I was in Viet Nam, and my commanding officer told me to stick a bayonet in a baby to send a message to the villagers, I myself would have to refuse.

You would go right ahead, unhappy about impaling the baby, but secure in the knowledge that, hey, if YOU didn't obey the orders, you'd just go to the brig and someone ELSE WOULD impale the baby anyway, so why not do it?


This is cool, we learn a lot about our fellow humans on the Hype.

Wow, we certainly do. This is one of the most idiotic posts I have ever seen.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Whatever the **** ever dude!! That was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse than "just a few dudes and their planes". I bet you don't know a single person who survived it as usual and are just throwing out generalities.

I used to go with my dad to the VA hospital(well he would make me, when I was younger), I've heard a good number of first hand stories. It wasn't just a few dudes and their planes, the japs also hit nearby shelter/medical rooms killing nurses and possible already injured people. Sorry, but I don't like under or over exagerated facts/opinions to prove a point.

God.

I wasn't proving a point with that phrase because I didn't think looking up the exact number and the exact dollar ammount of damage was necessary, when all I really meant that there's no way Pearl Harbor compares to flash-frying and torturing to death anywhere from 66,000 to 200,000 innocent civilians.


Are we agreed that attacking a bunch of soldiers at a base is a little different from killing tens of thousands of women and children?

 

[Figs]

Okay, if I was in Viet Nam, and my commanding officer told me to stick a bayonet in a baby to send a message to the villagers, I myself would have to refuse.

You would go right ahead, unhappy about impaling the baby, but secure in the knowledge that, hey, if YOU didn't obey the orders, you'd just go to the brig and someone ELSE WOULD impale the baby anyway, so why not do it?


This is cool, we learn a lot about our fellow humans on the Hype.

So would you then stick the bayonet in your commanding officer?? I ask that because if you knew that someone else would get ordered to kill the baby if you didn't wouldn't you kill the person that would give that order if you really cared about the child? Otherwise it's just selfishness that "you" don't want to be the one with blood on your hands, not the notion that you want to save it's life.

 

[Figs]

God.

I wasn't proving a point with that phrase because I didn't think looking up the exact number and the exact dollar ammount of damage was necessary, when all I really meant that there's no way Pearl Harbor compares to flash-frying and torturing to death anywhere from 66,000 to 200,000 innocent civilians.


Are we agreed that attacking a bunch of soldiers at a base is a little different from killing tens of thousands of women and children?

Yes, dropping the bomb on them was way worse and more horrible. I just didn't like the generalization that some people use, like their in the mindset of "Some of are soldiers died and a few planes and ships blew up..............oh well."

Oh yeah, forgot to mention. When a nuclear bomb goes off in a major city, the majority, Majority die instantly. Doesn't change the fact that many suffered afterwards from radiation poisoning but just thought I would throw that in there.

 

[Addendum]

So would you then stick the bayonet in your commanding officer?? I ask that because if you knew that someone else would get ordered to kill the baby if you didn't wouldn't you kill the person that would give that order if you really cared about the child? Otherwise it's just selfishness that "you" don't want to be the one with blood on your hands, not the notion that you want to save it's life.

Actually, it's Wilhelm not wanting to follow illegal orders.

 

[danoyse]

Nearly half of them huh?? Can you prove this?? If not im going to assume it's the safety card answer "the little children" .

From the PBS documentary, "Children of the Camps": http://www.pbs.org/childofcamp/

"Most of the 110,000 persons removed for reasons of 'national security' were school-age children, infants and young adults not yet of voting age."

One of the people interviewed for the documentary was actually born in one of the camps.

Check out the timeline for some even more disturbing facts:
http://www.children-of-the-camps.org/history/timeline.html

 

[Jerry!]

The thing is it doesn't even make sense to make comparisons like that. That war was completely different. And lets say somehow I guess in Wilhelm's world that the pilot refuses to go out on the mission and the bomb is never dropped. What happens next? Another invasion in which millions of people are killed. Civilians, Americans, Japanese, they were ****ing suicide dive bombing Navy ships, you think that kind of strategy is going to change once it becomes a land battle?

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

So would you then stick the bayonet in your commanding officer??

Totally, and I'd hope that if this scenario were real, MOST of the guys there would agree that the commander had lost his mind or was just plain Evil, and would back me up in resisting.

See that distinction?


Guy wants to kill baby - I'll kill him first, to save the baby - That's "RIGHT"
Baby nursing in Hiroshima that morning - Not trying to kill anyone - killing him would be "WRONG"


See how that works?

 

[Figs]

Actually, it's Wilhelm not wanting to follow illegal orders.

You missed my point. I agree and I myself wouldn't take the childs life, not just because it's illegal but also immoral. What I was doing was bringing up a major choice of conscience and morality. If you walk off because you won't take the childs life but know for a fact that someone else who gets asked will, is that only for the sake of selfishness to say "I didn't kill the baby"?

My point was, if you really cared about that child's life, would you try to stop the commanding officer by any means neccesary?