Discussion in 'Marvel Films' started by Detective Conan, Aug 22, 2019.
Sony made Spider Man and Spider Man 2, two of which are among my favorite SM and CBM movies. They also made SM3 which, if you disregard the emo Peter sub plot, is also pretty enjoyable. I will admit I found the novelization to be better. The ASM movies gave us Gwen and I absolutely felt the chemistry between her and Peter was great and liked what they were building up with the Sinister Six, except for the execution in part 2.
Despite seeing it from a mile away and reading the comics the Death of Gwen really struck a chord on me. Her death and the short time the Sandman had with his daughter felt more real than the forced relationship the mcu went with iron man and Peter being snapped in the mcu.
Tobey was an awkward nerd and Garfield a cool, more confident one and delivered great spider man lines. He also came up with his own tech and web shooters. Those two movies also delivered beautiful web swinging across ny.
Holland movies, apart from the villains, are pretty forgettable and they don't feature a strong cast.
Sony also delivered Into Spider Verse, so yes I will continue to support their spider man movies.
Ideally, if we can get the support cast of the raimi movies with a hint of the darker tone of the ASM movies while keeping the heart of the Raimi and spider verse movies, I think we would be in for a treat.
Let spidey be spidey, explore his gallery of villains and grow on his own. And let marvel explore all these other properties, bring back the Inhumans in a movie reboot.
I think FF and X-Men may not get made for a while yet. If FF comes out in 2022 and X-Men slowly integrated over the next 2 years, it'll still take a long while between movies even if Marvel Studio's gets these properties going sooner rather than later even if Spider-Man doesn't re-enter the MCU.
I think from a story standpoint, Marvel needs to at some point decide on wrapping up the stories of current MCU based characters that have been around for a while either by ending their stories or reaching a fitting sendoff point. Endgame didn't really end a lot of franchises so at the moment it seems to me like a massive juggling act to get any given sequel out.
With all the other new IP's coming out I am concerned a lot will just abruptly start/end without really wrapping anything up.
I think if X-men and FF were to start a bit later we could have a clear slate where sequels to these franchises will flow forth a lot quicker making up for lost time. Multiple X-Men based properties along with an FF one could appear for multiple years in a row to really get a good crossover story arc going. I'd rather wait a bit longer than have a movie come out soon then have to watch a bunch of movies about other characters for many years before seeing a follow-up.
No. I'm for rebooting these characters for new audiences and I believe that whoever steps into the shoes of said character won't be the last to play them. One day 20-50 years from now, we will probably get new actors playing Iron Man, Captain America, Batman, Superman etc etc.
But this iteration of Spider-Man isn't done and his story is intertwined with the core of the MCU. There will be a day where Spider-Man does leave the MCU but today will not be that day. I have a different kind of problem with this instance however.
What Sony intends to do is use Tom Holland's face plus flashing that Marvel logo as a "Pied Piper Effect" to lure less informed people to their mediocre Spider-Man movies. They plan to use the goodwill gained from Holland's Spidey being a part of the MCU and to reap Kevin Feige's hard work and the whole "This Spidey was with the Avengers draw" to unfairly gain money from the public who don't follow the news or social media as much as we do. On top of that, Tom Hardy's Venom never has existed in the MCU and Sony wants to retroactively throw its critically panned Venom into that continuity and act like Eddie was there the whole f**king time and Kevin Feige can't do anything about it. Basically Sony has free reign to add its poor fanfictions to the MCU.
That is my problem with this. If you want to start over right now at this moment in time, get a new person in the mask and embrace your inevitable failure on all different fronts. And then have the rights lapse back to Marvel in the end.
In all seriousness though, Into the Spiderverse gave us a new and essentially rebooted Peter Parker that was different to Tom Holland and any other that we had before. Why is Sony so afraid to reboot and are heavily insistent of leeching off Tom Holland? That's a question we should be asking.
The Spider-Man IP would go no where rebooting it again and Sony knows it. Redundancy will sink any momentum gained.
It's good for character IP's in general I think to provide at the very least a completed character arc across several movies leaving minimal story threads dangling. A reboot can always happen whether a character's story ends or not even if a character dies, retires, or goes off to live the rest of their lives along a path that is fitting. Ending things saves time, creates stakes, and adds drama/interest to the current movie.
I'd rather that than eventually have too many IP's that just begin and end out of nowhere that one has to wait to come out and be done with before a movie pertaining to a core storyline or biggest franchise finally goes into production.
Those voting yes and if the deal doesn't happen should come back here after Sony releases a trailer with 4 villains and rumors about Rothman in the editing room start coming out.
I'd be more excited for a live-action Spider-Verse movie than S6.
He probably should get at least a little credit for the first X-Men, I thought that was a strong film, a successful one and a very strong start to a film series.
Nobody believed in that first X-men movie Donner didn't even attend the premiere because she was sure it would be a flop...
I'll give him credit for X2 but then it goes down hill really really fast lol.
I'd be more fine with it if they were picking up with the TASM version and running with that. But carrying forward with a version of Spider-Man that was born and developed in the MCU in a universe where he can no longer acknowledge any of what happened there...I'm just not interested in that.
Now in general I'm not 100% against the concept of Spider-Man on his own. It is fun seeing him crossover with other heroes. But I grew up on shows where he effectively was by himself much of the time. I think he can hold up on his own.
Just not sure I trust that Sony won't just be rushing right into the Sinister Six and trying desperately to drop this version of Spider-Man into ever project they have to try and make people in general think these movies will be in the MCU.
Oh they will they'll now release an extended cut of Venom 1 with that scene with Tom Holland they cut lololol
First Class and Days of Future Past are great movies.
I personally like the first Amazing Spider-Man film but they really derailed that version in the sequel and screwed up so many characters and storylines at once. Spider-Man 3 might have been problematic in many ways but it didn't taint that continuity beyond any repair. I can't see any way The Amazing Spider-Man could continue and not be a disaster.
I'm pretty sure he left a couple years before Days of future past released.
Yes (assuming trailers look good) because i'm not a crazy person.
You're right about Days but the point stands about First Class.
Also, was he a part of Sony and their decision-making at the time of TASM2 fiasco?
I'm fine with a temporary withdrawal from the MCU (and this is all I think this will be) and even kind of a soft reboot that retains Tom Holland but rids Spider-Man of the Stark tech (not a fan of "Iron Spider"), and so long as it's a good film.
No he was hired shortly after the initial deal with Marvel Studios
This. I have no problem with Iron Spider in an event film team up with Iron Man. But now that we've gotten that we can move on from it.
The new goal should be to shred Spidey down to his wit and will. Much like they tried to do against the Vulture but with literally no one to turn to. I think Kraven would be perfect for this.
Spidey gets home after the Daily Bugle ending of Far From Home. The house has been ransacked, aunt may is no where to be seen. Peter is FREAKING out. Distraught and terrified. Someone's stolen his Iron Spider suit. Hes calling everyone in his phone and can't get through to anyone.
Suddenly a baseball bat swings at him from behind. It's aunt may. She was attacked but hid/fended them off. They go on the run. At some point they see Kraven as a guest star on the Daily Bugle. He's made it his goal to find and kill Peter.
They are attacked again by thugs and Peter barely fends them off. This is when Silver Sable shows up. She offers witness protection for May because Kravinoff is a known killer in her country. But that she has no jurisdiction to apprehend him in the US. "He will find you. And he will kill you. Good luck Parker."
So Peter is completely on his own. No new suits, no hero team ups. Just Spidey v Kraven mono e mono. Keep the movie a non stop thrill ride and no one will even notice Happy and Stark and Fury are missing. That's my theory anyway...
My only lament is that Kraven should definitely take the same heart shaped herb Black Panther does. And if it can't be heavily implied that its the same herb that's a real shame.
I love the MCU, but I’ve been so annoyed with how they have handled Peter Parker that I want him out of this franchise. He was created as a reaction to Lee and Ditko’s annoyance with the “sidekick” character, and the MCU has basically turned him into Robin.
For sure lol. Shocker, Tinkerer, Prowler, and Scorpion just bogged down Homecoming.
Lets keep it simple with the next one.
Expanding on my thoughts from pg.3:
I suppose Spiderman will be the main focus for Sony and I think that can be bad because they'll maybe be overly playing it safe from a creative standpoint meddling with the film to hit that 4 quad area in a less preplanned manner than Marvel Studios may do. Venom I don't think Sony really committed to what kind of movie they wanted to make early in the production process with many speculating an R that Sony didn't put to rest until around when the film rating was announced before release.
However, there are some grains of positive in that there'll maybe be a primary focus on a continued storyline across multiple movies that may come out in quick succession. Sequels for Spiderman didn't have to wait their turn like other characters owned by Marvel Studios it seems primarily since this was an outside agreement. Still, the 3rd movie would've been a better cutoff point if ever a separation was going to happen to at least get through Peter's High school years not to mention fallout from the end of FFH.
Right now it does seem like a mess to keep going with Holland´s portrayal but rebooting Sony knows will bomb hard at the Box Office especially if trying to retell his younger years all over again.
Sony has the same writers so they'll have to figure out a clever way to explain away why no Stark tech anymore. Frankly I think they should just jump to a future time point late or post college explaining all the suits ruined from past action and no real contact point at Stark Industries anymore which would require at least some explanation.
I think A 2099 version at this point meeting with Holland's Spiderman along with other versions from alternate realities may be a crazy enough segue to serve as an intermission story of sorts I think if Sony is intent on releasing the movie sooner rather than later. I think events need to fall in place for negotiations to pick backup with Marvel.
You know what I mean. But trying to say Tinkerer, Prowler, and Scorpion count as villains in Homecoming is a massive stretch.
I'm not following this ultra closely, but doesn't what Tom Holland want to do play heavily into this? I read that he has an option to do another movie, but isn't contractually obligated. That would be a tough payday to turn down, but certainly would put him in the driver's seat. I think Tom can have a fine career with or without Spider Man. Obviously, given today's circumstances, he'd be hard pressed to find work as lucrative, but he could make very, very good money acting in other roles. The same holds/held true for Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, and evern RDJ so it's not really that different.
In the meantime, Marvel is so busy over the next 3 or 4 years, they could EASILY put Spidey aside without any discernible consequences. 4 years down the road, who knows? It seems to me like Sony isn't holding a whole lot of cards here....
I really don't understand what is so hard to comprehend about this.
Spider-Man was meant to be the main guy in the MCU. When he eventually was taking over the Avengers he wouldn't have been lookitfor help from Iron Man. Iron Man is dead and each movie going forward he'd be mentioned less and less.
Pretty much every hero in the MCU so far except Strange & The Guaedians was getting tech from Iron Man but for some reason people only complaining about Spider-Man. At this point I'm glad he's gone. More room for the X-MEN.
Dumb question, obviously yes because I don't give a **** who's running things or what universe the character is in, as long as the film(s) are good & the character is portrayed in a good light.
I'm a fan of the character(s) not the companies behind them.