(Potentially) Interesting Topics: Rock 'n Roll Internet, or Killing Comic Writers

Discussion in 'SHH Community Forum' started by Number 6, Jan 17, 2013.

  1. Number 6 Be seeing you

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    So, I'm pretty new around these parts. But I was reading some post a day or two back about how we needed more interesting threads, so I'm going to make an attempt here. Maybe it'll fail; it'll probably fail, but I have topics that I think are interesting, so I'm going to give it the ol' Oxford try.


    Now, here's something that's happened recently that you may have heard about being on a comic book board. The current writer of Spider-Man, Dan Slott, had this super controversial idea for the book. Something about Spidey being Doc Ock or some ****. Tell you the truth, I don't know because I don't follow Spider-Man, never have, probably never will. The only real interesting thing to me about this is the reaction of Dan Slott to the reaction to this story.


    See, Slott received a lot of death threats from Spidey nerds because of this. And Slott's response? Well, gosh darnit all, Dan Slott isn't going to take this. He rebutted to many people on his twitter, calling them out on being too extreme. The crème of the crop? He threatened to contact the cops on one guy. Yeah, no kidding, he did this.


    I don't know how much of it came around in these comic forums, but I lurk over at CBR, and there was huge debates about how Slott did good by this. Huge, lengthy, heavy debates about how, by God, we shouldn't take cyber bullying. We need to call these bullies out. No one deserves to be threatened over the internet over a comic book storytelling.


    Well, here's how I feel about it.


    What a load of horse****.


    It's not that I have a problem with Slott's reacting to these people. In fact, it's good that he did. My complaint? The horse**** I smell in all of this? His rebuttal was way too civil.


    But hold on? Isn't that a good thing. No, I don't think so. And here's why.


    Professionals who post in comic forums or open up their twitters (no one should have a twitter anyway, and you automatically get dangerously close to losing your artist status if you have one, but that's another topic) know that the anonymous style of the internet is a nasty place. And if they don't, they sure do figure out pretty ****ing quick. And comic book fandom? Horrible, disgusting, monstrous, hateful, cankerous nerds who get off on spewing bile on every aspect of the hobby that feeds their “lives”. That's a mean thing to say, but just look at many comic book web forums and you'll see it. Maybe it'll even look a little stable on the surface, but boy oh boy, as soon as one thing in their beloved franchise isn't to their liking...watch out. They become the worst of the stereotype (that isn't to say they aren't any perfectly good posters in this community, but most of the truly good ones abandon that **** when they get a girlfriend, as those are usually the ones capable of such, and start getting laid. This explains why I registered in '11, but quit posting so quickly ;), but also why I'm back now :().


    So, what is the point I'm driving out? In all of Slott's reaction, as far as to my knowledge, he never told these death threaters, “Hey, shut up, you stupid ****. If you don't shut up, I'm going to write a story where Gwen Stacy comes back, then ****s the Green Goblin on Uncle Ben's grave while Peter watches, and then dies from excessive orgasm. Actually, hey that sounds like a great pitch to Marvel. BRB.”


    I know what you're thinking, though. Oh, he's a professional, he's not going to stoop to that level. And you know, that's the problem. He's already stooped to that level. Really, below that level if he's doing it over twitter, since that's the lowest you can go. If you're going into that warzone, you better be goddamn ready. Call the cops? Are you kidding me. These are a bunch of ubber nerds who aren't going to do jack **** to you. If there's a legit threat, it's not going to matter who you call that person will try to act on you. Not that there is, by any means, but if we want to visit that fantasy, okay.


    If a professional doesn't have the balls to do that, is afraid big papa DC or Marvel isn't going to like you being a potty mouth, or if you just don't want that image, there is a solution there: get off of the goddamn internet, or at least, off of web forums, twitter, or anything with comment systems and all that ****. A good example is Grant Morrison, another well-known comic writer. He had his own website with essays and web forums, but as soon as death threats came in about him writing X-Men, he pulled the plug and left it.


    That's why I'm going to give praise to an unlikely source. Rob Leieild. If you don't know who that is, google it real quick. He was an artist big in the '90s, and he recently had an incident on tweeter where he was bashing people left and right, many other writers and artists replied, and he pretty much became a laughing stock, but he spoke his mind and hit hard with his words. Unapologetic, unprofessional, real old school rock 'n roll style. He came off like a fool, especially since he was a bashing artists who are infinitely better than him, but that's the backfire. Plus, he was attacking peers, not internet nerds who wanted to kill him because his art sucks. But it's that embraced internet nastiness, the no-holds barred approach, that deserves recognition.


    To simply rebut with a “Hey, you can't do that” or use some hollow threat of “I'm going to call the cops, young man”, you frankly have no business doing what you're doing. It's not like you need to do it constantly like those trolls who have no life will do. Just a single, **inappropriate comment removed**, maybe followed by a “you are a lifeless little festering maggot who feeds on the phelgm I spit on this paper”, and then go about your way. Otherwise, keep off the internet and keep writing your stories without worry about what folks are saying on it. But if you're going to come here, it's old school rock 'n roll: no rules, no cares, only bile and hatred for no ****ing good reason. If that's not your style, the door to the classical concert is over there. Have fun, because it's better then this ****.


    Anyway, that's my thoughts. If you've got any thoughts about anything said here, feel free to discuss. If not, you can just make fun of me for starting this thread. It's okay, I'm pretty rock 'n roll. Until the (potential) next topic, Be Seeing You.

    [YT]fYENspV8UXY[/YT]
     
    #1 Number 6, Jan 17, 2013
    Last edited by moderator C. Lee: Jan 17, 2013
  2. Spider-Who? ERMERGERD!

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    For brevity's sake, I pretty much disagree with nearly everything you just said, especially about how the internet is "rock and roll" and having a twitter account "gets you dangerously close to losing your artist status" (you obviously don't use twitter, because its a great way to not only spread your work, but to find tutorials, inspiration from your favorite artists, etc). As both a musician and an artist, I find those notions to be extremely infantile and ignorant to the true meanings of "rock and roll" and "artist". Such dull and romanticized notions are no less juvenile than a teenager getting angry that the band they had NO IDEA existed a year ago suddenly becomes successful, and that success somehow makes them a sell out.


    Be seeing you.
     
  3. Number 6 Be seeing you

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    Hey, that's getting into the spirit. Good deal, bro, you brought that down to the level like a proper internet poster.

    But I will own up to the twitter bit. I really don't know anything about it. If there's real potential there, I'll just take your word on it. It seems to me it's mainly used for a bunch of nonsense and ********, but hey, I'm sure many of artforms have been denounced as such.
     
  4. amazingfantasy15 Registered

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    Those responses aren't rock n' roll, the more third grade playground crap.
     
    #4 amazingfantasy15, Jan 17, 2013
    Last edited by moderator C. Lee: Jan 17, 2013
  5. Number 6 Be seeing you

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    You must've come from a pretty hardcore third grade. I think the worst I have heard at that point was probably "jerk". Maybe I'd heard damn at that point. It's been a long time. I actually don't recall a lot of the third grade. I think I mainly played on the swings and with toys in the playground.
     
  6. C. Lee Superherohype Administrator

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    Since part of my job is to stop cyber bullying on this site....I have to disagree with your post. It has been shown that cyber bullying has led to suicide and violence outside of the net. So it is to be stopped and not encouraged.
     
  7. Number 6 Be seeing you

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    I would never encourage cyber bullying, that wasn't what I was trying to put across. Mainly, it's aimed at professionals who actively post in these environments, and they know what kind of nasty environment these kind of places can be (and if they don't, they find out), it's more about just not being afraid to tell these people to **** off and not bother with the pretense of politeness.

    I think the context does change when we're talking more poster to poster. But, and I know this may be controversial to say as well, I think a lot of the same logic applies. Learn to leave it, or grow a thicker skin and hit back. Now, this is talking mainly about web forums, twitters, blogs, and the such. I know there's far more extreme versions of this such as cyber stalking, hacking into other's accounts and computers, but I consider that more heavy material than just being nasty on forums and the such.
     
  8. bullets bang bang

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    You basically want comic book writers to stoop to the level of the idiots who send them death threats?
     
  9. Spider-Who? ERMERGERD!

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    I'd much rather keep my dignity and my job than risk not only looking like a run-of-the-mill internet moron and lose my job. Call me crazy. Keeping my job and that fat paycheck is far more important than "web cred" with digital thugs.

    Twitter is 75% junk, to be honest. But that other 25% has well earned its place in the pantheon of societal communication. But that ratio is not exclusive to twitter. It all depends on who you want to follow, what information you're wanting to get from it, what information you want to spread with it, etc. I follow several of my favorite artists, musicians, actors and directors, and I'd say the vast majority of their tweets are useful in one degree or another. That being said, there were several whom I eventually un-followed as the majority of their tweets were drivel. I actually had no intention of ever joining twitter, and held off for several years until a gf begged me to join. In the end, I'm glad I did.
     
  10. Number 6 Be seeing you

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    There is no stooping, though. It's like I said, they're already at that level when they come down to web forums or reply to those bashers. It's like going into a warzone dressed in your best Sunday suit, and somehow not expecting someone to shot at you because you look fancy. It's about adaptation. Either get into the concert, or leave.

    Perfectly understandable, and I addressed this. If you don't want that image or are afraid your bosses are going to let you go for it, take the Grant Morrison route and just don't do it, leave it totally to the inmates in the asylum. Don't post on web forums, disable comments on twitter (I'm assuming you can do this), your blogs, or delete them and keep your promotion to interviews and the like.

    And, for the record, it has nothing to do with "cred" of any kind. It's like I said above, it's about adaptation, and just being real, dropping the pretense of politeness in the face of the unpolite and uncivilized.

    Yeah, I guess my view is mostly tainted by that 75%. CBR has twitter feeds for a lot of comic writers and artists, and can't ever recall any real useful information. Occasionally, I'm see some promotion of a new release of their or a link to some finished art, but you would generally see the same thing in any interview or something like that. But, yeah, the vast majority was just sort of stuff you put on FB's status feeds or something, if even that. But it's cool that there is more out there on twitter to warrant it's existence, though.
     
  11. TheDreamMaster The Night He Came Home...

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    I disaree on the girlfriend part, because I think a number of us in the community have girlfriends/wives, and families. I certainly don't feel that the itnernet is the safe haven for those without lives. I may be reading into it the wrong way, but even you seem to imply you joined, got a girlfriend/laid, and then are back because something happened and you now have a lot of free time.

    I gotta go with the others on the cyber bullying sor tof thing. I think many tend to stay away from the darker parts of the net, but even regular forums do have their fair share of a**holes, but I don't think one needs to have to go to their level. as Spider-Who said, why risk what you've got going over a group who likely (I say likely as people have taken it too far before) won't be causing any real threat to you.

    As for Twitter, I'm not a member, and only go to probably three or four Twitter pages, and usually only when people mention they've updated, like a director on a movie posts and update or a Twitter for said film or game releases something new. As for actual celebrities, or even friends from home, I don't really bother with it. I've been mostly done with social networking for the last year or so anyway. (One example was I used to follow Michael J. Bassett on Twitter while he was working on the second Silent Hill film. He talked alot and tried to get fan input and hype the film to everyone and it seemed pretty awesome/ Then the film came out, and I realized most everything he fed the fans was bull****. So there's an example of that 75/25 Spider-Who mentioned too.)
     
  12. Darthphere Kneel before 'Drox!

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    Job?
     
  13. Spider-Who? ERMERGERD!

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    Why must politeness be a pretense? Are people not allowed to be polite by their very nature? And if they are, why must they lower themselves to the idiocy of the stereotypical few? That's not adaptation at all. It's conformity by way of devolution. Adaptation would see a polite person understanding that some people are just mean/childish and learning to tune them out or handle them in a way that is appropriate for themselves and the situation. Locking ones self in a room devoid of interaction with others because of the possibility of the negative is no way to live or think.

    You act like "polite" people are pacing their rooms in a cold sweat trying to weigh their options when confronted with the lower life forms of the Internet. What in the world do you imagine (and expect) them to do when confronted with similar people in real life?
     
  14. Lone Non-playable character

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    Oh ****. Secret's out, Lee's getting paid for this!:wow:
     
  15. Number 6 Be seeing you

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    No, you are right, of course. There are well adjusted folks on the web, but speaking from my experience, the internet is definitely a bit of a safe haven for those without social lives. I really think that goes without saying considering the rise of internet forums and MMO video games that create a social environment without the risk of human contact. But, yeah, you're totally right, this is by no means the grand rule of the web.

    But yeah, that is what I was implying more or less, though. I joined, and then started dating a girl, found I didn't have the time or care to get on the internet and discuss anything haha. I was traveling, too, so there was that.

    There is no need, of course. In the case, as I've replied to others, just walk away from it all together.

    I didn't get a chance to see SH2. I really enjoyed the first film.

    Well, first of all, I'll just go ahead and say I really don't see how you got this picture. I certainly didn't mean to paint such a picture. And more so, I haven't mentioned anything about real life. I've been talking about purely the internet here. It's the world of personas and fiction suits. Maybe some people act exactly the same as they do off the web, but I'd say it's pretty few and far between. That's why I've been using the analogy of a rock 'n roll concert. People just on another entirely different facade, do things they'd do, when they're in the middle of a concert.

    I'll give you that the politeness may not be a pretense, but come on, when someone says "**** you!" or "I'm going to kill you!", is you're reaction deep down really polite? Is most peoples? I can only speak for myself and the personal experiences of those around me, but rarely. And that's one of the props to being a persona; you can go to places where you either wouldn't be able or don't have to gall to. Of course, for professionals, it all comes down to how much you see value in this. For some, it can mean a job, true. But in the end, what is the point and what value comes from holding back. You've already devalued yourself somewhat by coming down to that level to reply. Maybe that value isn't enough to get you fired, but you've still stooped down to a low level just by acknowledging that kind of nonsense from the kind of people who do it. Really, the only way to save face in that situation is to just ignore it, laugh it off, shrug. But if you're to stoop to that level, whether you want to call it 'conformity by devoltuon' or whatever, it's still an adaptation to where you're at.

    I would not say that advice translatable to real life really. Not entirely anyway. If someone heckles a writer or artist in an obviously nasty and aggressive way at a convention, I know I wouldn't look down on them if they just told the guy to go **** himself. Comedians do that (Bill Hicks had an infamous example when he completely went off on a female heckler). But those situations rarely arise, and if anything else does it creates another host of issues separate from anything this kind of discussion is hitting on.
     
  16. Godzilla2000 Dollar Store Diva

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    I am very unhappy with the way that Peter Parker has been treated and I too am not fond of thew current Spider-man writer. Until Peter's soul is back in its rightful place I won't bat so much as an eyebrow towards any of the Spidey comics, but that by no means gives me the urge to be brutally hostile towards the hack that wrote this cra of Doc Ock's soul hijacking Peter's body. I'm just very very disappointed by this development and hope Marvel comes to their senses and actually starts hiring good writers with better ideas.
     
  17. Dan_Slott Registered

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    It was the correct response for the situation. Plain, simple, and to the point. And making it understood that online interactions would start having real world consequences.

    I've been in the industry for over 20 years. On one (and ONLY one) occasion, I told a fan who was acting out of line to go f*** themselves.

    I did it while very ill, just having got back from the doctors, on drugs, in immense pain, not having slept in a number of days, and while under an intense amount of both work related and financial stress. It really was a perfect storm of everything that could be going wrong to put me off my game-- AND all of this was mentioned in the post as a preamble BEFORE the "go f*** yourself" comment-- so the poster would know EXACTLY where I was coming from.

    The post was not even up that long before I had the common sense to go back in and take it down. But during that time, someone took a screen grab of it, ran it over to a fan-site that wasn't happy with the current state of the Spider-Man, and they ran it as a front page story. Then Bleeding Cool picked up on it the next day. Then it was everywhere.

    The more the story spread, the more the context was dropped. And it just became "Dan Slott tells a fan to go f*** themselves." Then as that spread, the story changed even more, and it became regular message board fodder that "Dan Slott tells FANS (plural) to go f*** themselves."

    That was over 2 years ago. And still (as recently as last week) when I get into a disagreement with someone, they do a web-search, pull that up, and present it as justification for how to treat me, and how I'm rude to "true" fans. Regardless of the fact that it was 1 time in 20 years, never been said again, and most people in the industry who showed up to talk about it online said that the "fan" in question had it coming. The OTHER thing everyone fails to mention is that the both the fan and I both issued apologies to each other within hours. But THAT'S not a fun or salacious story.

    Until someone sees the ACTUAL messages I HAVE received since ASM #700 leaked online-- no offense-- but it's really not their place to tell me how I should (and have) responded to them. I am actually proceeding with this is in (as I've been instructed by people who know-- and who do this for a living) in the correct fashion.

    And as someone who's gone the "go f*** yourself" route ONCE in over 20 years-- and under crazy circumstances-- I can tell you that it is NOT worth it. It hangs around forever and will NEVER go away. I can cure cancer tomorrow and I will STILL be the guy who told a "fan" to "go f*** themselves." Because THAT is how the internet works.
     
  18. Godzilla2000 Dollar Store Diva

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    Please put Peter's soul back in his body eventually so everything can get back to normal in the Spidey comics.
     
  19. Dan_Slott Registered

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    Thank you for keeping everything in perspective. :doh:
     
  20. Paladin-Hoss Registered

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    ^^ hehe i think she was joking,Dan.

    Anyway, i've been a comic fan for most of my adult life. That said, if there is one thing i can't stand is how some of these people behaves regarding to our mutual hobby,both online and in real life...

    I swear these people have an over inflated sense of consumer entitlement...
     
  21. Spider-Aziz I Wanna Be...

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    Death threats are crazy and too harsh to be childish, there's no stooping to that level

    Number 6, if you think having a girlfriend is the absolute mean of having a life, then what's it like to have friends? And Dan here once let go of his steam, you should see how apologetic he bacame after that
    She saw you, a chance like this for a request can't be missed
     
  22. C. Lee Superherohype Administrator

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    Excuse me, let me rephrase my response.....

    Since part of my totally voluntary, unpaid, non employed, non profit, freely given with no re enumeration expected association with this site is that I have been asked by the owners of this site to help them in keeping this site a cyber bully free zone....I have to disagree with your post. It has been shown that cyber bullying has led to suicide and violence outside of the net. So it is to be stopped and not encouraged.
     
  23. TheDreamMaster The Night He Came Home...

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    Dan Slott posts here? Awesome! Although I haven't followed Spider-man honestly ever. I love the chraacter but outside the film adaptions I don't much care. Still, pretty crappy how people are treating you based on your doing your job. And I definately agree its better to be civil than to sling crap, especially on the internet.
     
  24. Darthphere Kneel before 'Drox!

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    Non profit?:o
     
  25. Spider-Aziz I Wanna Be...

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    "Part of my duties" would suffice
     

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