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The Dark Knight Pre-credits Prologue : The Joker's origin.

Well when Joker was first introduced he wasn't given any back story, and it was actually a while before any was introduced into the canon.

I don't think we need to see why he is who he is, although I do think we'll see his scarring.

Regarding his scarring, I agree with people who say he does one side himself. The injuries are of a different nature on each side, one's a welt and one's a cut.
I love Batman #1 and I love TKJ, there lies my dilemna, I'm all for mystery but i can also enjoy a good well done backstory/origin.
It sounds like you're judging according to the IBIHD picture which is rumoured to be a make-up test, in the new pictures the scarring looks much less apparent on either side.
 
I love Batman #1 and I love TKJ, there lies my dilemna, I'm all for mystery but i can also enjoy a good well done backstory/origin.
It sounds like you're judging according to the IBIHD picture which is rumoured to be a make-up test, in the new pictures the scarring looks much less apparent on either side.


If you look at the viral pic of joker and rachel, it's a welt, it's an unusual scar, but if you look at the scar on the other side of his face in the close up of him with the running makeup, it's more of a cut. They're two different scars.

I liked TKJ a lot. A LOT. I'm undecided as to whether or not I like THAT particular origin though. I like the idea of Joker being a badass before his transformation. In TKJ he was a bit of a *****... I don't think the audience needs to empathise with him no more than they needed to empathise with Hannibal Lecter, of John Doe from Seven... He's a really evil guy. End of story.

I also think he raped Barbra in TKJ, but that's another story.
 
If you look at the viral pic of joker and rachel, it's a welt, it's an unusual scar, but if you look at the scar on the other side of his face in the close up of him with the running makeup, it's more of a cut. They're two different scars.

I liked TKJ a lot. A LOT. I'm undecided as to whether or not I like THAT particular origin though. I like the idea of Joker being a badass before his transformation. In TKJ he was a bit of a *****... I don't think the audience needs to empathise with him no more than they needed to empathise with Hannibal Lecter, of John Doe from Seven... He's a really evil guy. End of story.

I also think he raped Barbra in TKJ, but that's another story.
Interesting. I find The new Joker origin in Batman confidential where he is kind of a badass pre-transformation (are we even going to see him as the Joker in there ?) much less interesting than TKJ where he is indeed a bit of a wimp but a much more tragic figure in the grand tradition of the Phantom of the Opera and all the great monsters who've been done wrong in general before taking their revenge on the world. I like the pathos in that.
But like i said i also Love Batman #1 where this mysterious figure, this evil clown, comes out of nowhere and creates mayhem, so i'm really torn between the two.
As for the scarring, you might be right. And for the raping, I don't see the Joker as a very sexual character and i think Alan Moore would have hinted at it, if only through the voice of the Joker to precipitate Gordon further into madness, but why not, like i said it's an interesting theory ?
 
Interesting. I find The new Joker origin in Batman confidential where he is kind of a badass pre-transformation (are we even going to see him as the Joker in there ?) much less interesting than TKJ where he is indeed a bit of a wimp but a much more tragic figure in the grand tradition of the Phantom of the Opera and all the great monsters who've been done wrong in general before taking their revenge on the world. I like the pathos in that.
But like i said i also Love Batman #1 where this mysterious figure, this evil clown, comes out of nowhere and creates mayhem, so i'm really torn between the two.
As for the scarring, you might be right. And for the raping, I don't see the Joker as a very sexual character and i think Alan Moore would have hinted at it, if only through the voice of the Joker to precipitate Gordon further into madness, but why not, like i said it's an interesting theory ?


Well he pictures her in various states of undress, I think it is hinted at.

I don't care whether or not we see a joker origin. We defo won't need one if his skin isn't permawhite, and if it IS permawhite, and IF this is the twist, I highly doubt we will see the origin, at least at the beginning of the movie. I dunno, a flashback after the reveal of a twist like that seems like awkard pacing.

But yea, I defo prefer the bad ass evil psycho joker origin. Hated that he was a wimp. HATED IT. Hannibal Lecter's origin took away the aura of menace to a certain degree. We know nothing of John Doe in Seven. We don't need a back story. Like in clockwork orange. he's a psychopath who likes hurting people and watching the world burn....

That's enough for me.
 
Well he pictures her in various states of undress, I think it is hinted at.

I don't care whether or not we see a joker origin. We defo won't need one if his skin isn't permawhite, and if it IS permawhite, and IF this is the twist, I highly doubt we will see the origin, at least at the beginning of the movie. I dunno, a flashback after the reveal of a twist like that seems like awkard pacing.

But yea, I defo prefer the bad ass evil psycho joker origin. Hated that he was a wimp. HATED IT. Hannibal Lecter's origin took away the aura of menace to a certain degree. We know nothing of John Doe in Seven. We don't need a back story. Like in clockwork orange. he's a psychopath who likes hurting people and watching the world burn....

That's enough for me.
Fair enough. But that means you don't really care for TKJ then, but to each his own.
I'm a big fan of a Clockwork Orange and the simple fact that Ledger has mentionned Alex as an influence in his portrayal of the Joker fills me with joy. I love Alex DeLarge and I love the phantom of the opera but you are right they are two completely different beasts. And the Joker is an incredibly rich character because depending on how he is adressed he can belong to both families. As for Hannibal, his origin took away the aura of menace, also because the book and the movie sucked.
But for now I'm excited by the anarchist Joker who just wants to watch the world burn...
Burn, Gotham, burn !
 
Someone in the spoiler thread spec'd that the Joker opening prologue may be the crime that Gordon tells Bats about at the end of BB
the double homicide would be the deaths of the bank manager and Joker's Henchman, the Robbery would be the bank hold up
.


I wrote this for another thread while back but its my thoughts on that....
<rant>
But if we are to assume that the casting sides are still relevant.........
The Joker already had a rep before the bank robbery, as evidenced by the dialogue between the criminals on their way to the bank. If this was the robbery Gordon was talking about and The Joker already had a rep, dont you think Bats would have already known about him, or atleast would have known about the bank heist? Batman's line "Ill look into it" pretty obviously shows his unfamiliarity with the crime. Are we really supposed to believe a bank robbery, botched or otherwise, would go under Batman's radar?
I think if the bank heist had been the incident that Gordon was talking about he would have said mentioned the bank instead of just "robbery/double homicide." I got the feeling that Gordon was talking about something more along the lines of back-alley muggings, ala Joe Chill, except much more sadistic. They could also draw some parallels (not connections) between Joker's early crimes and the murder of the Waynes. Remember when they said that escalation was going to be a big theme in TDK? I think he starts out with smalltime robberies, builds a rep based on the viciousness of those crimes, then he escalates into bigtime crime with things like the bank job, and then eventually he becomes The Joker that we all know and love. The type of guy who would blow up a building full of people just for the fun of it.
</rant>
 
Totally agree with DeadWinterSkies. Plus, if only two die during the bank heist I will be surprised/disappointed. I expect carnage on a grand scale!
 
here's my 2 cents:

why would joker wear the make-up? insanity? ok, but i don't think that'll do it for nolan, or for me, for that matter. if he's scarred/welted/whatever each decides before knowing, then that would make him look scary enuff.
batman causing the damage to joker's face? to easy. already sorta done.
as i keep saying, nolan sees 'noir crime film' with detective in middle of mob war; his presence potentially making it worse. not a comic movie to nolan. characters are just hyperbolized and apotheosized from something based in gritty crime drama. all that is a roundabout way of saying this: joker is disfigured by some member of a mob family (such is done in reality to teach lessons, obedience, etc.). he wears the make-up so they won't know it's him, pissed off after they tried to get rid of him. and his grand scheme is to get them to turn over power to him, willingly. his early crimes are retribution against mob interests (including a bank; hey, maybe he only takes falcone's money; a crime lacking sense to one who has no idea; thus batman has to do some detective work). batman gets in way and the two become enemies, not, at least to start, for personal reasons, but because batman is getting in the way of joker's revenge plan. it will; however, get personal by the end.
 
I wrote this for another thread while back but its my thoughts on that....
<rant>
But if we are to assume that the casting sides are still relevant.........
The Joker already had a rep before the bank robbery, as evidenced by the dialogue between the criminals on their way to the bank. If this was the robbery Gordon was talking about and The Joker already had a rep, dont you think Bats would have already known about him, or atleast would have known about the bank heist? Batman's line "Ill look into it" pretty obviously shows his unfamiliarity with the crime. Are we really supposed to believe a bank robbery, botched or otherwise, would go under Batman's radar?
I think if the bank heist had been the incident that Gordon was talking about he would have said mentioned the bank instead of just "robbery/double homicide." I got the feeling that Gordon was talking about something more along the lines of back-alley muggings, ala Joe Chill, except much more sadistic. They could also draw some parallels (not connections) between Joker's early crimes and the murder of the Waynes. Remember when they said that escalation was going to be a big theme in TDK? I think he starts out with smalltime robberies, builds a rep based on the viciousness of those crimes, then he escalates into bigtime crime with things like the bank job, and then eventually he becomes The Joker that we all know and love. The type of guy who would blow up a building full of people just for the fun of it.
</rant>

The criminals talking on the way to the bank are Joker's goons. Anyway, there's nothing to say Batman doesn't already know about the incident Gordon is referring to, he's merely inviting him onto the case. Why would Batman be invited onto a straightforward violent mugging? What's theatrical about that? It's going to be something the police are baffled by. Whatever the incident, Gordon knows he doesn't have to bother going into any detail
 
what i forgot to say in my post was that we might get scenes that show how the joker got his scars, maybe even why he wears the clow make-up. but that's not an 'origin' story. no mushy 'explanation' for his motivation (like bruce's sympathetic death-of-parents story). joker's a bad guy who becomes more brazen and self-destructive with every wound (literal and figurative) his chosen criminal life gives him.
he's a bad guy (we can recognize and imply the whatfor's.) here's how he goes from recognizable bad guy to 'joker.' escalation. does batman stop the bad guys or make them more extreme?
there's resonance in our modern times...
 
The criminals talking on the way to the bank are Joker's goons. Anyway, there's nothing to say Batman doesn't already know about the incident Gordon is referring to, he's merely inviting him onto the case. Why would Batman be invited onto a straightforward violent mugging? What's theatrical about that? It's going to be something the police are baffled by. Whatever the incident, Gordon knows he doesn't have to bother going into any detail
Are you saying it's the same heist Gordon is talking about in BB, making that supposedly first sequence in TDK a flashback ?
 
now that I think about it, a pre-credits monologue may not even HAVE joker in it, but a joker related crime. (maybe laughing gas through out the city or something like that)
 
now that I think about it, a pre-credits monologue may not even HAVE joker in it, but a joker related crime. (maybe laughing gas through out the city or something like that)
It'd be cool if it had something to do with the Joker venom, his signature, but i don't think it will happen as it's probably not very "Nolanesque".
 
Don't mind me.
I just see that some people were looking for the video I made of Joker's Origin.

Here's the link in the SHH site:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=282397


I updated it to make it a little better and I will be posting it on Youtube shortly (the updated version). Just as soon as maintenance is done.
Just check on my username there: Shadow71689, for when I update, if you like.
The video is simply titled Joker Origin.


Thanks! :woot:
 
Don't mind me.
I just see that some people were looking for the video I made of Joker's Origin.

Here's the link in the SHH site:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=282397


I updated it to make it a little better and I will be posting it on Youtube shortly (the updated version). Just as soon as maintenance is done.
Just check on my username there: Shadow71689, for when I update, if you like.
The video is simply titled Joker Origin.


Thanks! :woot:
I really liked it, keep up the good work !
 
What's the title of the trailer music you used near the end? The operatic choir?
 
An updated version of "Gothic Power" by X-Ray Dog.

It's either Gothic Power, New Gothic Power, Gothic Remix, Gothic Monsters, or Gothic Power MIX 2. I can't recall which one I used, lol

I wish I could have used one of their pieces titled "Gotham Showdown" for it, but the music didn't really fit for what was happening in the scene.


It would've been awesome if I could have, tho. :oldrazz:



(If you are talking about the music that begins to play when the Intro "One Man" begins, then that is the one)
 
An updated version of "Gothic Power" by X-Ray Dog.

It's either Gothic Power, New Gothic Power, Gothic Remix, Gothic Monsters, or Gothic Power MIX 2. I can't recall which one I used, lol

I wish I could have used one of their pieces titled "Gotham Showdown" for it, but the music didn't really fit for what was happening in the scene.


It would've been awesome if I could have, tho. :oldrazz:
Thanks for the info. I think the music goes perfectly with the visual. Bravo !
 
Can you upload those songs? I'm kinda lazy to search for all of those. :o
 
I have SOOO many.

By Immediate Music, X-Ray Dog, Two Steps From Hell, James Dooley...



What I will do... I'm going to organize my computer one of these days, so:

I'll upload them all in one file. Drexx, if interested, send me a pm to remind me, and I'll send you the link as soon as I get it done. (which should be soon)

How's that? :woot:



Though, if you want them sooner, I can promise that those songs are among the easiest to find and most common. :)
 
I'll pm you in 72 hours to give you time. :up:
 

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