The Dark Knight Psychological themes in TDK

[Baba Ghanoush]

We all know that Nolan infuses his films with the psychological themes of guilt and a separate one specific to the picture. In memento it was guilt and identity, in insomnia it was guilt and reality, In BB it was guilt and fear.

Anyone know what the major psychological theme in TDK will be? speculations?

 

[TheBatman072]

Guilt and insanity?

 

[sasquatchs]

+ obsession with all these bat worshipper vigilantes

 

[TheBatman072]

+ obsession with all these bat worshipper vigilantes

I hope it's all one big club, and they actually CALL themselves the Sons of The Batman.

 

[sasquatchs]

Seems a little early in the game for that, maybe in 3 if the public hasn't entirely lost faith with Bats

 

[MaskedManJRK]

I hope it's all one big club, and they actually CALL themselves the Sons of The Batman.

That would be a super-cool touch. t:

Yeah, the movie will probably deal with some form of guilt, as well as insanity and obsession.

And if it's anything like Begins, we'll DEFINATELY know the themes because the characters will say those words 48 million times.

 

[TheBatman072]

Seems a little early in the game for that, maybe in 3 if the public hasn't entirely lost faith with Bats

It'd be a nod to DKR, and some of them might use a gun, or some other thing that Batman wouldn't do.


Of course, this Batman isn't a crazy old man* so he'd put a stop to them completely.


*This in no way is meant as a slight against DKR. It's one of my favorite Batman stories and one of my favorite Batman interpretations.

 

[Anguissette1979]

Obsession and failure. We saw a bit of this in BB as Wayne Manor was crumbling but when he gets his ass handed to him by the Joker that's one hell of a slap in the face.

 

[Saint]

Obsession and duality, of course..

Batman walks the razor's edge, in that he is in constant danger of losing his real self. During the day, he wears the playboy disguise, and at night he is Batman--he almost never has the opportunity to be himself. Because of this issue with duality he is at risk of falling victim to one of these personalities and losing his true identity.

This was well illustrated in Knightfall. Batman was so obsessed with bring in all the inmates Bane realeased--so obsessed with his perceived responsibility--that he began to lose touch with himself. He was becoming Batman and only Batman, which means he was only tapping into the darker impulses that batman is composed of. He became more violent and more unbalanced as time went on, because he was no longer in touch with his human side: he was Batman alone. Bane crippling him actually saved him, because in a wheelchair he was forced to reconnect with his true self. He couldn't be Batman, and he couldn't stand to be the playboy 24/7, so he began to rediscover himself.

This is an idea that is easily adaptable to TDK. The Joker, Two-Face, and Batman are all the same person; they merely made three different choices when faced with their own breaking point. The Joker relinquished all responsibility and became a madman, Batman took on the ultimate responsibility and became a hero, and Two-Face--unable to throw away his values, but also unable to believe in justice any longer--fell somewhere in between.

At any time, Batman is at risk of becoming like either of them. His obsession and his controlled multiple personalities make him vulnerable. If he lapses into becoming Batman alone, he becomes a merciless killer. If he can't keep up his balancing act, he breaks down and becomes unable to reconcile his personalities, therefore becoming Two-Face.

In plain terms, Batman can't let his obsession affect his ability to reconcile his duality.

 

[TheBatman072]

Shouldn't obsession and duality be the themes for the third movie? With Two-Face in it?

Batman Begins-Scarecrow=Fear(Batman uses fear as a weapon)
The Dark Knight-Joker=Insanity(Batman would have to be a little insane to do what he does)
The Dark Knight 2-Two-Face=Duality(Batman is two men. Bruce Wayne, and Batman)

 

[sasquatchs]

Shouldn't obsession and duality be the themes for the third movie? With Two-Face in it?

Batman Begins-Scarecrow=Fear(Batman uses fear as a weapon)
The Dark Knight-Joker=Insanity(Batman would have to be a little insane to do what he does)
The Dark Knight 2-Two-Face=Duality(Batman is two men. Bruce Wayne, and Batman)

That was more my thinking, but nice post Saint. However, Batman was already having troubles with that in Begins so they may as well deal with it in some way now

 

[xero1186]

He almost went completely batman in Bruce wayne murderer/fugitive too. What an awesome read that was.

 

[MAKIEVELLI]

Nice post, Saint, but while the Harvey-Bruce connection is obvious, I don't see a Batman/Joker connection. I honestly don't see Bruce making a wrong choice and becoming the Joker. And I've always like the idea that Batman is just as insane as the criminals he chases, he just manifests it in a different way.

 

[Matchbox]

Obsession and duality, of course..

Batman walks the razor's edge, in that he is in constant danger of losing his real self. During the day, he wears the playboy disguise, and at night he is Batman--he almost never has the opportunity to be himself. Because of this issue with duality he is at risk of falling victim to one of these personalities and losing his true identity.

This was well illustrated in Knightfall. Batman was so obsessed with bring in all the inmates Bane realeased--so obsessed with his perceived responsibility--that he began to lose touch with himself. He was becoming Batman and only Batman, which means he was only tapping into the darker impulses that batman is composed of. He became more violent and more unbalanced as time went on, because he was no longer in touch with his human side: he was Batman alone. Bane crippling him actually saved him, because in a wheelchair he was forced to reconnect with his true self. He couldn't be Batman, and he couldn't stand to be the playboy 24/7, so he began to rediscover himself.

This is an idea that is easily adaptable to TDK. The Joker, Two-Face, and Batman are all the same person; they merely made three different choices when faced with their own breaking point. The Joker relinquished all responsibility and became a madman, Batman took on the ultimate responsibility and became a hero, and Two-Face--unable to throw away his values, but also unable to believe in justice any longer--fell somewhere in between.

At any time, Batman is at risk of becoming like either of them. His obsession and his controlled multiple personalities make him vulnerable. If he lapses into becoming Batman alone, he becomes a merciless killer. If he can't keep up his balancing act, he breaks down and becomes unable to reconcile his personalities, therefore becoming Two-Face.

In plain terms, Batman can't let his obsession affect his ability to reconcile his duality.

VERY well said, Saint.

-Matchbox

 

[the_monk]

Possibly the guilt of responsibility when Joker kills/hurts someone close to Bruce.

 

[ShadowoftheBird]

Obsession and duality, of course..

Batman walks the razor's edge, in that he is in constant danger of losing his real self. During the day, he wears the playboy disguise, and at night he is Batman--he almost never has the opportunity to be himself. Because of this issue with duality he is at risk of falling victim to one of these personalities and losing his true identity.

This was well illustrated in Knightfall. Batman was so obsessed with bring in all the inmates Bane realeased--so obsessed with his perceived responsibility--that he began to lose touch with himself. He was becoming Batman and only Batman, which means he was only tapping into the darker impulses that batman is composed of. He became more violent and more unbalanced as time went on, because he was no longer in touch with his human side: he was Batman alone. Bane crippling him actually saved him, because in a wheelchair he was forced to reconnect with his true self. He couldn't be Batman, and he couldn't stand to be the playboy 24/7, so he began to rediscover himself.

This is an idea that is easily adaptable to TDK. The Joker, Two-Face, and Batman are all the same person; they merely made three different choices when faced with their own breaking point. The Joker relinquished all responsibility and became a madman, Batman took on the ultimate responsibility and became a hero, and Two-Face--unable to throw away his values, but also unable to believe in justice any longer--fell somewhere in between.

At any time, Batman is at risk of becoming like either of them. His obsession and his controlled multiple personalities make him vulnerable. If he lapses into becoming Batman alone, he becomes a merciless killer. If he can't keep up his balancing act, he breaks down and becomes unable to reconcile his personalities, therefore becoming Two-Face.

In plain terms, Batman can't let his obsession affect his ability to reconcile his duality.

Saint, you've single-handedly revitalized my interest in the Two-Face character. Sometimes I forget how interesting he is. Aaron Eckhart is a great actor, I hope that pans out well.
​

 

[turtlefocker]

VEry well written

 

[Batman>all]

Is that why Nolan wanted to make Batman films because of the psychological themes Batman and his universe can portray?

Is that why Nolan is a Batman fan or did he just get intrigued by doing Batman films because of the psychological themes?

 

[Steelsheen]

Obsession and duality, of course..

Batman walks the razor's edge, in that he is in constant danger of losing his real self. During the day, he wears the playboy disguise, and at night he is Batman--he almost never has the opportunity to be himself. Because of this issue with duality he is at risk of falling victim to one of these personalities and losing his true identity.

This was well illustrated in Knightfall. Batman was so obsessed with bring in all the inmates Bane realeased--so obsessed with his perceived responsibility--that he began to lose touch with himself. He was becoming Batman and only Batman, which means he was only tapping into the darker impulses that batman is composed of. He became more violent and more unbalanced as time went on, because he was no longer in touch with his human side: he was Batman alone. Bane crippling him actually saved him, because in a wheelchair he was forced to reconnect with his true self. He couldn't be Batman, and he couldn't stand to be the playboy 24/7, so he began to rediscover himself.

This is an idea that is easily adaptable to TDK. The Joker, Two-Face, and Batman are all the same person; they merely made three different choices when faced with their own breaking point. The Joker relinquished all responsibility and became a madman, Batman took on the ultimate responsibility and became a hero, and Two-Face--unable to throw away his values, but also unable to believe in justice any longer--fell somewhere in between.

At any time, Batman is at risk of becoming like either of them. His obsession and his controlled multiple personalities make him vulnerable. If he lapses into becoming Batman alone, he becomes a merciless killer. If he can't keep up his balancing act, he breaks down and becomes unable to reconcile his personalities, therefore becoming Two-Face.

In plain terms, Batman can't let his obsession affect his ability to reconcile his duality.

great post here man

 

[Saint]

Thanks.