Psylocke/Kwannon Thread

[psylockolussus]

I think maybe you should avoid this thread since it seems to make you unhappy.

Anyway Kwannon is awesome! I almost named my cat after her 😻

I don't mind Kwannon being adapted into the MCU. As long as they aren't doing it at the original Psylocke's expense.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Kwannon was never adapted in the movies and the cartoons. You are just assuming the Psylocke in those, went through the body swap. Thankfully that was never showcased in those.

Also, just in case you missed, Kwannon was created in 1992 iirc. Betsy was already Psylocke for many years. Kwannon was killed in the comics in 1994 iirc, and was only resurrected in 2018. The iconic bathing suit was worn by Betsy for about 3 decades, before someone at Marvel decided to give Betsy's signature costume (which was adapted in the cartoons/Apocalypse 2016) to Kwannon....

Kwannon is only being called as Psylocke since 2020. Betsy had the codename from the 80s to 2019...

I am saying that it was Kwannons body. That is who the audience recognizes as Psylocke. Are you expecting Asian Psylocke to appear in the films with Betsys mind and be called Betsy with no bodyswap having been done? Or are you expecting white Betsy to appear? You cant have the iconic costume without K's body.

Because Betsy in Kwannons body as Psylocke is the most iconic interpretation of the character. Betsy as Betsy in her own body isnt as iconic.

 

[BoredGuy]

I expect them to mish-mash the characters: Elizabeth Braddock is a British-Asian assassin who goes by the name Kwannon, until she finds redemption as the X-Man Psylocke.

To be played by Gemma Chan. lol. Gotta find that role that suits her eventually.

 

[Venom 1988]

I expect them to mish-mash the characters: Elizabeth Braddock is a British-Asian assassin who goes by the name Kwannon, until she finds redemption as the X-Man Psylocke.

To be played by Gemma Chan. lol. Gotta find that role that suits her eventually.

Yeah but this isn't a typical race swap. By going that route your eliminating an Asian character, one who has actually been well devleoped in recent years, to prop up a white character. The thing that made Betsy so iconic in the first place happens to be the most problematic thing about the character. All the things that made her popular with fans are all things taken from Kwannon.

 

[BoredGuy]

Yeah but this isn't a typical race swap. By going that route your eliminating an Asian character, one who has actually been well devleoped in recent years, to prop up a white character. The thing that made Betsy so iconic in the first place happens to be the most problematic thing about the character. All the things that made her popular with fans are all things taken from Kwannon.

No, what I said indicates she'd still be asian, just not born in Japan

 

[Venom 1988]

No, what I said indicates she'd still be asian, just not born in Japan

I know, my point still stands. You're propping up Betsy by giving her Kwannon' traits and eliminating Kwannon entirely.

 

[CyclopsSummers]

Feige wants diversity so we have more chance to cast an asian actress for Psylocke

Its time to have a telephatic and skilled martial artist Psylocke
badass and beautiful 💖💖

 

[Venom 1988]

Feige wants diversity so we have more chance to cast an asian actress for Psylocke

That's not what we're debating. It's whether they keep Betsy separate from Kwannon and have Kwannon become Psylocke.

 

[CyclopsSummers]

I prefer Betsy version as Psyclocke and later she becomes Captain British

 

[BoredGuy]

I know, my point still stands. You're propping up Betsy by giving her Kwannon' traits and eliminating Kwannon entirely.

True, but that's because, as discussed above, Betsy is the more popular version of Psylocke. Kwannon's been a nothing character until very recently, and I don't see them doing the body swapping thing. So if they want the popular version of the character, without the ickiness of doing a race-swap in movie, my bet is they just make Bets Asian and drop Kwannon. Not saying that's my preference, just my prediction.

 

[Venom 1988]

True, but that's because, as discussed above, Betsy is the more popular version of Psylocke. Kwannon's been a nothing character until very recently, and I don't see them doing the body swapping thing. So if they want the popular version of the character, without the ickiness of doing a race-swap in movie, my bet is they just make Bets Asian and drop Kwannon. Not saying that's my preference, just my prediction.

Which again as I pointed is still problematic. The best path forward is simply keeping the 2 character separate and have Kwannon be Psylocke.

 

[Sithborg]

True, but that's because, as discussed above, Betsy is the more popular version of Psylocke. Kwannon's been a nothing character until very recently, and I don't see them doing the body swapping thing. So if they want the popular version of the character, without the ickiness of doing a race-swap in movie, my bet is they just make Bets Asian and drop Kwannon. Not saying that's my preference, just my prediction.

And they removed all problematic things from Shang-Chi's father AND the Mandarin at the same time. How'd that work out.

 

[Silvermoth]

Ok I don’t want to keep going on about it because it’s taking up too much air and the people who have decided on their opinions have decided on their opinions but I’ll just say, remember when they dug down on Iron Fist and said “that’s the way we’ve always done it in the comics” and we all know how that turned out.

Ok moving on, Kwannon would be so exciting to see because if they’re going to do Sinister they have to do the Mutant Massacre. It’s great to develop and introduce Gambit too which is probably the character marvel will want to focus on.

Anyway, if they’re do that, they can introduce the Psylocke x Greycrow romance which was definitely one of the the highlights of the krakoan era and would really help drive that knife in

 

[Sithborg]

Just a reminder, Marvel stopped using Greycrow's codename because it is a racist trope. Just in case certain people who are stuck in obsessing with how characters have been called for a long time.

 

[Silvermoth]

Well said and thank you for the reminder sithborg so for everyone else, we don’t use the name “sc*lphunter” because it’s racist. Greycrow is fine though

 

[BoredGuy]

And they removed all problematic things from Shang-Chi's father AND the Mandarin at the same time. How'd that work out.

Well, imo
I thought Shang Chi, and Wenwu as the villain, were fantastic
Was it "The Mandarin" people always pictured in their head? No probably not, but I thought it worked great

 

[Sithborg]

Well, imo
I thought Shang Chi, and Wenwu as the villain, were fantastic
Was it "The Mandarin" people always pictured in their head? No probably not, but I thought it worked great

You mean how Feige was forced to keep trying to convince China that, no this character isn't a racist characture anymore, and was ultimately rejected, and kind of helped break the MCU's place in China, losing them a lot of money?

 

[BoredGuy]

You mean how Feige was forced to keep trying to convince China that, no this character isn't a racist characture anymore, and was ultimately rejected, and kind of helped break the MCU's place in China, losing them a lot of money?

I know you're very obsessed with Marvel's relationship with China, but I don't give even the tiniest s***
The MCU has made, what, $6 billion dollars over the last 4 years on movies that didn't get released in china?
I'm sure this is Feige right now:

Imo it worked story- and character-wise, and I thought he was a good villain

If they do combine Kwannon and Betsy, I believe they can and will do it well
But hey, maybe I'm totally wrong, and their plans for the X-Men includes both silent ninja Kwannon and boring British Betsy with no body-swaps in sight

 

[Silvermoth]

I like British Betsy, I don’t think she’s boring at all.

Back on topic though, Alyssa wong talked about her Psylocke series and she had some really interesting points about Psylocke and body image and her as a cult survivor. Really can’t wait to read this

X-Men Monday #268 – Alyssa Wong Talks ‘Psylocke’

Plus, an eXclusive look at 'Psylocke' #1 and the cover to 'Psylocke' #3!

aiptcomics.com

 

[Venom 1988]

Apparently they revealed that Pyslocke is gonna be in the Marvel Rivals game but it's not the Betsy version but rather the Sai version created by Peach Momko from the Demon Days comics. Feels like this might be further evidence there not gonna have Betsy as Psylocke if/when they ever do adapt her in the MCU.

 

[Silvermoth]

Yeah at first I was a bit uneasy but she’s actually Sai from the Peach Momoko era. Love the outfit. Instantly iconic

 

[Sithborg]

I know you're very obsessed with Marvel's relationship with China, but I don't give even the tiniest s***
The MCU has made, what, $6 billion dollars over the last 4 years on movies that didn't get released in china?
I'm sure this is Feige right now:

Imo it worked story- and character-wise, and I thought he was a good villain

If they do combine Kwannon and Betsy, I believe they can and will do it well
But hey, maybe I'm totally wrong, and their plans for the X-Men includes both silent ninja Kwannon and boring British Betsy with no body-swaps in sight

Yeah, a good character that if Shang Chi had been released in China, probably would have lead to it doing as well as Monster Hunter. Another movie that was made to take advantage of the Chinese box office. Though again, China also has weird issues with Simu Liu, so... shrug. Bet Feige wasn't going on an apology tour for how Liu looks.

As for my concern with China, well, in the past it has been my primary concern with MCU X-men, as a CCP approved X-men film would likely not be worth the name. Though, that concern has largely been overridden by more... domestic views of "non-political" goals of filmmaking.

 

[Silvermoth]

Even if you loose the china market you’ll gain the weeb market and those guys buy like crazy

 

[SirStrangefolk]

I already said it earlier in the thread, but I would have Asian-British Betsy first (with all the ties to the Braddock family), and Japanese Kwannon later. That way you don't have to cut out any elements of any version of Psylocke, and you can have a version of Psylocke around for longer in total. You could even do a solo "Psylocke" project where the new Psylocke is introduced and the two of them team up, similar to how we had Clint/Kate as "Hawkeye" and Natasha/Yelena as "Black Widow".

Also, just in case you missed, Kwannon was created in 1992 iirc. Betsy was already Psylocke for many years.

I'm gonna have to be fair here and say that you yourself have admitted to not liking Betsy from the classic Captain Britain comics and are always going on about a costume she didn't have until after she got a Japanese body in 1989. If you care about how Betsy was Psylocke for "many years" before that (in reality only 3 years, since she only became Psylocke in 1986 and got the Japanese body in '89), are you also okay with adapting Betsy's character from the years before that?

 

[Sithborg]

I think I am okay with east asian Betsy if they drop all the ninja bull****.