Puddin' time ! Rate Leto's Joker in comparison to other portrayals.

[Batmannerism]

Hey folks,

Finally saw Suicide Squad - and for me one of the highlights was Jared Leto's Joker. In a messy and forgettable film, his performance was one of the points of distinction - far more so than Smith as Deadshot.

Great to see how committed leto was to the role and that he took it in a different direction - somewhere between Nicholson and Ledger, but with a ton of bling !

Personally I liked it - and I don't know why Leto is *****ing about his scenes being cut from the film - after all it ain't about him !

Still, I think us DC afficianados should have a civilized discussion about how Leto's performance matches up against the others - what we liked, what we didn't etc. Just live action for now thanks.

For me, Ledger is still far and away the greatest, but I would be bold enough to put Leto at number 2 - because I felt he had a serious sense of menace.

Of course, I don't have a lot to go on, but hopefully we'll get a solo Batman v Joker film where he can really strut his stuff - chuck in Harley too, I thought they had a good dynamic. ( I kind of want it explained at some point that the reason he has all metal capped teeth is because Batman knocked them all out after J killed Jason Todd).

So, here's where I think the Joker performances stand at present.

1. Ledger, simply the best

2. Leto, crazy, menacing and freaky

3. Nicholson, big props for going all the way back in '89, a black comedic portrayal.

4. Cesar Romero, servicable but the laugh always bugged me.

I might write a bit more later on the nuances and subtle distinctions between Leto and Ledger - but I'm working 7 days this week, so I'm to tired to think straight.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this because Joker was the absolute worst part of the film. Perhaps the cut scenes showed more acting prowess and writing skill, but SS's Joker was simply horrendous all around.

As far at Leto goes, the weird ticks that he brought to the character added nothing. Nicholson brought a charming insanity to his character. Ledger's torturous mastermind Joker was as multifaceted as Joker's comic "multiple choice" history. Everything those guys did, from their voice, to body mechanics, to their expressions, added to those specific visions of the character. Leto was just a painted thug who made weird noises.

Worst of all, Joker seemed to be intent on reuniting with Harley, even at his own personal expense. While I'm not current on the DC Rebirth 3-person Joker, I don't remember ever reading a story or seeing the Harley appearances on B:TAS that suggested Joker would risk life and limb for her. That seems contradictory to his character, and the very reason that Harley left him to become an anti-hero in the first place.

 

[Batmannerism]

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this because Joker was the absolute worst part of the film. Perhaps the cut scenes showed more acting prowess and writing skill, but SS's Joker was simple horrendous all around.

.

Fair enough dude ! Agree to disagree. There was a lot wrong with this movie, but for me the Joker bits were one of the better things. But hey, just IMO.

I can see how some would not enjoy Leto's performance.

 

[The Joker]

Leto's Joker was the worst part of the movie by a long shot. Because they made such a balls up of comic book's greatest villain. Nothing about his character worked.

The design was awful. We get no reasons or hints why he wears those ugly tattoos, the whole pimp outfit with the jewelry, gold jackets etc sucks. There is nothing Joker or clown like about them. He has no stand out moments. No scene that makes you feel this is Batman's greatest villain, or any kind of great villain.

Then there's the Joker/Harley relationship. Since when does Joker give a flying fig about Harley? I don't buy the strawman argument that he just wanted her back for ego purposes because she's his property. Never seen this from the comics or BTAS. When Harley left Joker's gang and teamed up with Poison Ivy, Joker didn't give a damn. He only tracked her down to swipe all the loot they had taken together. He didn't care about getting Harley back. Harley is never on Joker's radar unless she has something he wants. Leto's Joker was neutered into a love sick puppy pining for his missing gf.

Ranking the Joker from best to worst;

1. Ledger
2. Romero
3. Nicholson
4. Leto

 

[OutOfBoose]

From best to worst:
1. Ledger
2. Nicholson
3. Leto

Yep, they screwed up DCEU Joker big time. Agree with everything in the post above.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Leto's Joker was the worst part of the movie by a long shot. Because they made such a balls up of comic book's greatest villain. Nothing about his character worked.

The design was awful. We get no reasons or hints why he wears those ugly tattoos, the whole pimp outfit with the jewelry, gold jackets etc sucks. There is nothing Joker or clown like about them. He has no stand out moments. No scene that makes you feel this is Batman's greatest villain, or any kind of great villain.

Then there's the Joker/Harley relationship. Since when does Joker give a flying fig about Harley? I don't buy the strawman argument that he just wanted her back for ego purposes because she's his property. Never seen this from the comics or BTAS. When Harley left Joker's gang and teamed up with Poison Ivy, Joker didn't give a damn. He only tracked her down to swipe all the loot they had taken together. He didn't care about getting Harley back. Harley is never on Joker's radar unless she has something he wants. Leto's Joker was neutered into a love sick puppy pining for his missing gf.

Ranking the Joker from best to worst;

1. Ledger
2. Romero
3. Nicholson
4. Leto

Where would you place Hamill in hr ranking if we were including animated performance?

 

[Victarion]

1. Ledger
2. Leto
3. Nicholson

I liked about half of Leto's performance: the scene where tells Harley he needs a machine gun, his scenes in his nightclub (loved this aspect they added), taking the scientist's wife hostage at knifepoint while holding him at nanite-gun point...and then injecting him with it, and the scene where its revealed he and his men jacked the chopper. The rest I didn't care for.

As far as his outfits go, I liked the purple crocodile skin jacket. Didn't care for the black tux.

I don't know if DC/WB is intentional in their use of irony here, but I've loved how in BvS and again here in SS (with Joker and Waller respectively) your villains are just a mite less destructive than the heroes

 

[Timebomb]

Leto's Joker was the worst part of the movie by a long shot. Because they made such a balls up of comic book's greatest villain. Nothing about his character worked.

The design was awful. We get no reasons or hints why he wears those ugly tattoos, the whole pimp outfit with the jewelry, gold jackets etc sucks. There is nothing Joker or clown like about them. He has no stand out moments. No scene that makes you feel this is Batman's greatest villain, or any kind of great villain.

Then there's the Joker/Harley relationship. Since when does Joker give a flying fig about Harley? I don't buy the strawman argument that he just wanted her back for ego purposes because she's his property. Never seen this from the comics or BTAS. When Harley left Joker's gang and teamed up with Poison Ivy, Joker didn't give a damn. He only tracked her down to swipe all the loot they had taken together. He didn't care about getting Harley back. Harley is never on Joker's radar unless she has something he wants. Leto's Joker was neutered into a love sick puppy pining for his missing gf.

Ranking the Joker from best to worst;

1. Ledger
2. Romero
3. Nicholson
4. Leto

Agree with everything here. Leto is way way down on my list. There are a lot of fan film Jokers better than Leto.

 

[Boom]

1) Ledger

2) Nicholson
3) Romero





4) Leto

Almost nothing worked for me with Leto's take, from the aesthetics to the characterization to the performance. Swing and a miss on all three fronts.

Having said that, he's in Suicide Squad so briefly and in consequently that I think there is still a chance to fix the character for future appearances. But they essentially would need to do a complete overhaul. I have zero interest in seeing a continuation of what Ayer and Leto cooked up.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Ledger is undeniably the best, and Jack was pretty great. As for Leto, I feel like he wasn't in it enough for me to get a sense of his Joker at all. And apparently all his best scenes were left on the cutting room floor. So I feel like I can't appropriately evaluate his performance.

 

[Serpico Jones]

Leto's Joker was the worst part of the movie by a long shot. Because they made such a balls up of comic book's greatest villain. Nothing about his character worked.

The design was awful. We get no reasons or hints why he wears those ugly tattoos, the whole pimp outfit with the jewelry, gold jackets etc sucks. There is nothing Joker or clown like about them. He has no stand out moments. No scene that makes you feel this is Batman's greatest villain, or any kind of great villain.

Then there's the Joker/Harley relationship. Since when does Joker give a flying fig about Harley? I don't buy the strawman argument that he just wanted her back for ego purposes because she's his property. Never seen this from the comics or BTAS. When Harley left Joker's gang and teamed up with Poison Ivy, Joker didn't give a damn. He only tracked her down to swipe all the loot they had taken together. He didn't care about getting Harley back. Harley is never on Joker's radar unless she has something he wants. Leto's Joker was neutered into a love sick puppy pining for his missing gf.

Ranking the Joker from best to worst;

1. Ledger
2. Romero
3. Nicholson
4. Leto

To be fair it seems like the Joker/Harley relationship was changed via reshoots. He was reportedly much more cruel to her in the original cut and it freaked out WB executives.

 

[The Joker]

Where would you place Hamill in hr ranking if we were including animated performance?

At the top. Between BTAS, Batman Beyond Return of the Joker, the Arkham games, the Killing Joke adaption etc, Hamill's pretty much the definitive Joker. He's done it all.

To be fair it seems like the Joker/Harley relationship was changed via reshoots. He was reportedly much more cruel to her in the original cut and it freaked out WB executives.

Maybe, but we can only judge what we got, not what we didn't.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Then there's the Joker/Harley relationship. Since when does Joker give a flying fig about Harley? I don't buy the strawman argument that he just wanted her back for ego purposes because she's his property. Never seen this from the comics or BTAS. When Harley left Joker's gang and teamed up with Poison Ivy, Joker didn't give a damn. He only tracked her down to swipe all the loot they had taken together. He didn't care about getting Harley back. Harley is never on Joker's radar unless she has something he wants. Leto's Joker was neutered into a love sick puppy pining for his missing gf.

I'm glad there weren't more scenes with him if that's all that SS was going to do with the character. He came to her aid three times, each involving more effort than the last. That made me cringe because nothing about the Joker, save an amnesiac state ala Joseph Kerr, suggests that he's capable of even the strangest kind of love, let alone possible self-sacrifice.

To be fair it seems like the Joker/Harley relationship was changed via reshoots. He was reportedly much more cruel to her in the original cut and it freaked out WB executives.

I'm still trying to conceive what could have been so shocking that WB ordered the story so radically changed. They once produced a film where Joker threatened Rachel Dawes with a knife, threw her out of a high-rise window, then blew her up. Exactly what did he do to Harley that was worse than this?

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Pee on her. I reckon.

 

[Flint Marko]

I believe in one deleted scene he slapped her. I'm not sure if that's true, just something I recall reading.

 

[Supa]

Domestic violence is a lot more serious than just terroristic violence, in this context. It's a huge deal more sensitive for audiences, because there's actually a pretty good chance that several of the audience members have been abused by their partners, and portraying that wrong could spark a nasty controversy. Most people haven't been thrown out of a window or almost blown up, so there's a disconnect there. It's just fantasy, whereas domestic violence is reality for some people.

It's not that it's more severe, it's just more sensitive.

 

[Batmannerism]

Leto's Joker was the worst part of the movie by a long shot. Because they made such a balls up of comic book's greatest villain. Nothing about his character worked.

The design was awful. We get no reasons or hints why he wears those ugly tattoos, the whole pimp outfit with the jewelry, gold jackets etc sucks. There is nothing Joker or clown like about them. He has no stand out moments. No scene that makes you feel this is Batman's greatest villain, or any kind of great villain.

Then there's the Joker/Harley relationship. Since when does Joker give a flying fig about Harley? I don't buy the strawman argument that he just wanted her back for ego purposes because she's his property. Never seen this from the comics or BTAS. When Harley left Joker's gang and teamed up with Poison Ivy, Joker didn't give a damn. He only tracked her down to swipe all the loot they had taken together. He didn't care about getting Harley back. Harley is never on Joker's radar unless she has something he wants. Leto's Joker was neutered into a love sick puppy pining for his missing gf.

Ranking the Joker from best to worst;

1. Ledger
2. Romero
3. Nicholson
4. Leto

Dudes, I am surprised at the amount of hate Leto is getting. I mean, he had to do something radically different - to distinguish himself from previous iterations. The look was definitely radical, and I found his mannerisms suited the character. I loved the pimp look - I mean he comes across as a really nasty, crazy street thug ( kind of a more blingy version of the Ledger version but not as crafty or cunning). He certainly does a lot more posing than Ledger did.

In terms of him not having stand-out moments, well....it isn't really his film, and maybe they cut out some of his best moments ?

I can't agree that he was the worst thing about Suicide Squad - for me it was the generic crunchy black minions - I mean, WTF ? Did they spend the CGI budget on Will Smith's paycheck (totally not worth it) ? Those were terrible, the Ultron army and Chitauri were a million times better.
There was plenty of other crappy stuff too, but that was the most obvious.

Still, I am surprised - but hey I get it, this is a totally new Joker, and we'll probably need to see more of him to get used to him.

Did anybody out there like Leto's look/performance ?

 

[Lantern Venom]

Domestic violence is a lot more serious than just terroristic violence, in this context. It's a huge deal more sensitive for audiences, because there's actually a pretty good chance that several of the audience members have been abused by their partners, and portraying that wrong could spark a nasty controversy. Most people haven't been thrown out of a window or almost blown up, so there's a disconnect there. It's just fantasy, whereas domestic violence is reality for some people.

It's not that it's more severe, it's just more sensitive.

Anakin Skywalker force-choked his pregnant wife in one of the most mass marketed, family-centered franchises in history. Why? Because he had become a villain by that point and villains, by definition, do nasty things. Fox didn't shy away from that because it was essential to the character.

Likewise, anyone with even the most casual familiarity with the Joker shouldn't have expected him to be above domestic violence. He's one of the most brutal villains in fictional history. WB was willing to show him mutilating his girlfriend in the '89 Batman film and menacing both Vickie Vale and Rachel Dawes. Outside of a graphic rape ala The Woman with the Dragon Tattoo or prolonged torture, both of which would have automatically been out of bounds for PG-13, I can't imagine any audience member expecting Joker to be above any form of loathsome behavior. It's as if WB doesn't know their own characters.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I think Leto did fine as an actor. But the direction they took with the character is a total miss.

 

[Erzengel]

Hamill

But for live action

Ledger then Nicholson

Leto would probably be at the bottom.

 

[John Locke]

Anakin Skywalker force-choked his pregnant wife in one of the most mass marketed, family-centered franchises in history. Why? Because he had become a villain by that point and villains, by definition, do nasty things. Fox didn't shy away from that because it was essential to the character.

Likewise, anyone with even the most casual familiarity with the Joker shouldn't have expected him to be above domestic violence. He's one of the most brutal villains in fictional history. WB was willing to show him mutilating his girlfriend in the '89 Batman film and menacing both Vickie Vale and Rachel Dawes. Outside of a graphic rape ala The Woman with the Dragon Tattoo or prolonged torture, both of which would have automatically been out of bounds for PG-13, I can't imagine any audience member expecting Joker to be above any form of loathsome behavior. It's as if WB doesn't know their own characters.

I think they cut it because it would put Harley in a bad light. They didn't want Harley to go back to an abusive Joker, even though that's the point of Harley.

I didn't find anything wrong with Leto's performance and I quote him sometimes but I hated how they chose to portray him.

 

[Victarion]

The part of Leto's performance that mostly stuck out was when he was looking down into the vat after Harley jumped. Seemed like he was confused or something.

 

[Bats123]

1.Ledger
2.Hamill
3.Nicholson
4.Romero
5.a pile of hot trash
6.dog feces
7.Leto

 

[Bayne]

1. Ledger
2. Hamill
3. Nicholson
4. Leto
5. Romero

I don't think any of them have really been bad, and most of the arguments against Leto seem to be just complaining that he didn't act exactly like some other version of the Joker (despite the fact that every live action joker so far has been a major reinterpretation of the character), or complaining that he didn't get amazing scenes, despite it not being his movie in the first place.

It's true Leto didn't get the chance to shine in this movie that he could have had, and for that reason I can't put him above Nicholson based on this movie alone, but I honestly think this version of the character has real potential and if continued and given more focus, he could potentially be the second best live action portrayal after Ledger.

 

[The_Manhunter]

Ledger is still my favorite but I thought Leto did the character justice. Excited to see more of him.

1) Ledger
2) Leto
3) Hamill
4) Nicholson
5) Baker
6) Romero