Q: if the world's supervillains can work together-the why not the heroes?

[Fantasyartist]

This question was asked by in a slightly different form by the late Captain America.

I think I have the answer as to why conglomerations of villains such as The Serpent Society with multinational members( German, Egyptian et al) can work together as one whereas heroes( and the bulk of super teams in the MU are either predominantly American or the very least based in the US such as the current X-Men) seem so reluctant to do so-even in an age of globalisation which should see more international team ups.

Firstly in the super hero world parochialism rules( like news or politics, the superhero scene is pretty localized-who pays any attention to heroes in San Francisco-far less Moscow or Paris? Daredevil for one seems preoccupied with his "turf" in Hell's Kitchen). Secondly no matter what nationality a hero/heroine is, (American, French, Russian, German et al) he or she remains a national of a given nation state and therefore subject to the norms of that society. Thirdly in societies that have had a long history of antagonism to each other( Cold War between US and USSR, Arab/Israeli conflict, NI Troubles) have left an understandable reluctance on the part of heroes to work with their counterparts from the "enemy" nation( would Sabra work with the Arabian Knight, Shamrock with Captain Britain unless the stakes are so high that they are prepared to put aside old-and not so old -mutual antipathies- destruction or conquest of planet earth/galaxy?)

Crooks of course are in it for the money and can afford to waive xenophobic sentiments if all can mutually prosper!

Anybody think as I do?

Terry

 

[The Question]

This question was asked by in a slightly different form by the late Captain America.

I think I have the answer as to why conglomerations of villains such as The Serpent Society with multinational members( German, Egyptian et al) can work together as one whereas heroes( and the bulk of super teams in the MU are either predominantly American or the very least based in the US such as the current X-Men) seem so reluctant to do so-even in an age of globalisation which should see more international team ups.

Firstly in the super hero world parochialism rules( like news or politics, the superhero scene is pretty localized-who pays any attention to heroes in San Francisco-far less Moscow or Paris? Daredevil for one seems preoccupied with his "turf" in Hell's Kitchen). Secondly no matter what nationality a hero/heroine is, (American, French, Russian, German et al) he or she remains a national of a given nation state and therefore subject to the norms of that society. Thirdly in societies that have had a long history of antagonism to each other( Cold War between US and USSR, Arab/Israeli conflict, NI Troubles) have left an understandable reluctance on the part of heroes to work with their counterparts from the "enemy" nation( would Sabra work with the Arabian Knight, Shamrock with Captain Britain unless the stakes are so high that they are prepared to put aside old-and not so old -mutual antipathies- destruction or conquest of planet earth/galaxy?)

Crooks of course are in it for the money and can afford to waive xenophobic sentiments if all can mutually prosper!

Anybody think as I do?

Terry

No. Especially this part:

Crooks of course are in it for the money and can afford to waive xenophobic sentiments if all can mutually prosper!

That isn't true. If you're putting together a crew to rob a bank, and you hire an ex-Black Panther and a former member of the Aryan Brotherhood, they're either going to not take the job, constantly be at each other's throats, or kill each other.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

This question was asked by in a slightly different form by the late Captain America.

I think I have the answer as to why conglomerations of villains such as The Serpent Society with multinational members( German, Egyptian et al) can work together as one whereas heroes( and the bulk of super teams in the MU are either predominantly American or the very least based in the US such as the current X-Men) seem so reluctant to do so-even in an age of globalisation which should see more international team ups.

Firstly in the super hero world parochialism rules( like news or politics, the superhero scene is pretty localized-who pays any attention to heroes in San Francisco-far less Moscow or Paris? Daredevil for one seems preoccupied with his "turf" in Hell's Kitchen). Secondly no matter what nationality a hero/heroine is, (American, French, Russian, German et al) he or she remains a national of a given nation state and therefore subject to the norms of that society. Thirdly in societies that have had a long history of antagonism to each other( Cold War between US and USSR, Arab/Israeli conflict, NI Troubles) have left an understandable reluctance on the part of heroes to work with their counterparts from the "enemy" nation( would Sabra work with the Arabian Knight, Shamrock with Captain Britain unless the stakes are so high that they are prepared to put aside old-and not so old -mutual antipathies- destruction or conquest of planet earth/galaxy?)

Crooks of course are in it for the money and can afford to waive xenophobic sentiments if all can mutually prosper!

Anybody think as I do?

Terry

With super powers comes great super ego's.

 

[November Rain]

Supervillains have a focal point and thats generally the destruction of a superhero.

superheros don't have this focal point and their agendas for teaming up are always mixed or forced or just happen.

what one would probably notice is after the destruction of a group/individual by a supervillain, these arrangements fall on their heads as each probably tries to establish their superiority over the other.

 

[SuperFerret]

Evil always turns in on itself eventually. I don't know where you're getting this harmony among villains thing.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Well I dont think Logic really plays a part at all. I think its all about business. Kind of similar to how the big muscle bound heroes of the 80s never managed to be in a movie together (Sly & Arnold). It might deflate their superhero status and egos. Some Heroes dont like taking orders when they can perfectly handle the job themselves. I think thats why heroes like the unoffical Fantastic Four with the likes of the Hulk, Wolverine, Spiderman, and Ghost Rider never seem to get along...and fans understood that too.

Villains typically 100% of the time lose the greater battle and hence it would make sense for them to join up to increase their odds.

 

[GNR]

You think about these things too hard FantasyArtist.

 

[Anubis]

What do you mean why can't heroes work together? There's all sorts of Super teams out there, and they operate far better than Villains cuz the villains will ultimately screw each other over.

 

[Aristotle]

if the world's supervillains can work together-then why not the heroes?

Because it's way edgier to have heroes who don't trust their own shadows, let alone other people. Also, alcoholism or some form of violence against an undeserving victim is a good thing. It's usually best for the hero to have a massive personal failing that most of us would not forgive a friend for doing.

"Heroes." The very idea! This is the brave new world, we don't have good guys.

 

[Dread]

It is funny to claim that "villains get along" when a criticism hopping around Marvel for years now is how disorganized their rogues are and their inability to capitalize on ANY of the heroic issues that have come up since 2004. A messload of crooks escaped the Raft, but most have been recaptured or pummeled a few times. Hammerhead tried to rally them during CW, but that was undone pretty quickly. The existence of the Thunderbolts has seemingly eliminated all the "good" members of the Masters of Evil. The best attempt at unification in the last 4 years has been under The Hood, and they were undone by the New Avengers (or rather, a Zom-Posessed Dr. Strange).

Villain teams almost always crumble because of clashing egos, or lack of success or leadership, or so on. Hero teams have usually been somewhat more stable.

 

[kguillou]

I dont understand the question of this thread. Superheroes team up and work together waay more than super villains. Always have. We have the avengers, x-men, fantastic four, the defenders... we've seen Spidey team up with basically every hero in the MU several times, the same with wolverine. Its just that in recent years the heroes are having trust issues because of registration and the invasion, but normally the marvel heroes are always happy to work together for a common goal. Villains all have their own agendas and their "team ups" are artificial.

 

[Anubis]

That's what i'm saying.

 

[Fantasyartist]

I dont understand the question of this thread. Superheroes team up and work together waay more than super villains. Always have. We have the avengers, x-men, fantastic four, the defenders... we've seen Spidey team up with basically every hero in the MU several times, the same with wolverine. Its just that in recent years the heroes are having trust issues because of registration and the invasion, but normally the marvel heroes are always happy to work together for a common goal. Villains all have their own agendas and their "team ups" are artificial.

I think you miss my point- Avengers, Defenders, X-Men all are fairly local- they all live in the New York City area at the very least or at least on the East Coast USA, so it would be unthinkable for them NOT to ocasionally run into one another- whereas other heroes( Omega Flight, Winter Guard et al) are pretty territorial and rarely leave their respective home turfs.
As for the example you cited of a former Black Panther being forced to work with an Aryan Brotherhood supporter as part of a bank robbery- this is valid, but is also atypical- my understanding of criminals is that when the rewards of working together outweigh the disadvantages(the Aryan Brotherhood reportedly has a working relationships with Latino prison-based gangs), who cares whether your associates are of a darker hue or a different nationality( you needn't invite them home for Sunday brunch or encourage to date your sister/daughter). For the most part, greed or lust for power/revenge trumps such petty concerns!- at least for villains.

Terry

 

[The Question]

As for the example you cited of a former Black Panther being forced to work with an Aryan Brotherhood supporter as part of a bank robbery- this is valid, but is also atypical- my understanding of criminals is that when the rewards of working together outweigh the disadvantages(the Aryan Brotherhood reportedly has a working relationships with Latino prison-based gangs), who cares whether your associates are of a darker hue or a different nationality( you needn't invite them home for Sunday brunch or encourage to date your sister/daughter). For the most part, greed or lust for power/revenge trumps such petty concerns!- at least for villains.

Terry

Because all criminals have the same, completely rational, business like mentality. The fact is that some criminals can work past pettiness to get things done, and others can't.