Qs you have/ things you liked/disliked about Capt Marvel [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Captain Marvel' started by Dark Raven, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    It's always about how you're affecting them or their mood. If someone were really concerned about you, they'd say "are you okay?" or "is anything wrong? You seem quite down." When you say "you should smile more", it's as if you're affecting their mood, and they don't really care whether anything is actually bothering you, but just that you're bothering them.

    But I'm not sure how it is specifically sexist. I understand it's offensive, as I've explained earlier, and wouldn't like people even saying it to me. But since I've heard people saying that to either gender, I don't know how it's sexist when it comes to women, but not sexist if someone says it to another man, or a woman says it to a man. It just seems like something you shouldn't say to either gender. It's not as if it's more acceptable to say it to a guy somehow.
     
  2. MadVillainy C'mon Son

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    Again, if you're not a woman I think we should just take women's word for it and move on. We don't know what it's like. And I agree that it's just rude in general, but I'm not going to keep question why it's sexist. I don't think that'll lead anywhere. And Random490 had a very good explanation of it.

    It's seen by a large majority of women, so then it probably is.
     
  3. C. Lee Superherohype Administrator

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    I've seen several people say the action scenes were too dark....I don't remember them that way. It seemed alright to me. I wonder if it's just depends on the theater.

    I thought Fury's eye loss was funny.
     
  4. C. Lee Superherohype Administrator

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    The telling of women "to smile" is sexist and offensive to them. I'm sure many men can't understand why....but then many men don't understand why many things they do is sexist and offensive to women.
     
  5. Mysteryman Registered

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    Agreed on both counts.
     
  6. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    I've heard men say it to women, women say it to men, women say it to other women, men say it to other men, and adults saying that to children (eg teachers to their pupils). Do women not find it sexist then if a woman says it to another woman? It can't suddenly be more acceptable just because it wasn't a guy telling them that. It's just a rude thing to say.
     
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  7. Speed Force Running

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    I don't think her personality really started to shine until the third act when she was kicking butt. I'm sure she'll bounce off of them just fine.

    Chances are she'll interact with the likes of Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Ant-Man, Wasp, etc, more then the original Avengers. At least going forward and in the long run
     
  8. kvz5 HBIC

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    Question -

    Was the Skrull Yon-Rogg
    shot Talos’ science guy?
     
  9. KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    I believe so yes and I believe that was also MCU stalwart you know who doing double duty in the film.
     
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  10. SirStrangefolk Champion of Life

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    Questions about a potential future for Hulkling in the MCU,
    • If Mar-Vell died in 1989, does that mean that Hulkling will be in his 30s when he joins the Young Avengers? I feel like that wouldn't really fit next to Cassie Lang not even being a teenager yet atm. Also would potentially be problematic for him to date a boy who isn't even born/magicked into existence yet right now.
    • If the Skrulls can alter their DNA when simming people, does that mean Princess Anelle can still be his parent even though Mar-Vell is a woman?
     
  11. writer0327 Registered

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    The funny thing is I loved everything about the movie except Carol's story. Fury, Talos, 90s references, even the cat all worked for me. Actually this felt like Talos' story more than CM's, and she felt like she was there doing her part in his story, whereas her story was less compelling. It was almost BP-like in how he was portrayed in CA:CW, except the major difference of course is he wasn't the star of that film.
     
  12. KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    There is zero chance that Talos' screen time equals even half of what Brie's time as Carol's is. The story follows her from start to finish so I can't understand how you could possibly think this comes off as his story unless one is being willfully obtuse.
     
  13. NHawk19 insert witty comment

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    Brie's delivery was a little dry at times, but not as bad as I was expecting based on the comments.

    Her call sign should've stayed Cheeseburger. Cap's movie was titled the first Avenger that should've been enough.
    Would've liked to have seen Howard in 1989 making a comment about a pilot named cheeseburger as the primary pilot on the project.
    They never call her Captain Marvel sort of weird given that's the title of the film.
    Coulson seemed more like fan service than a real character.
    The skrull brain exploration thing seemed a little weird and out of place.

    Also and this is my ignorance are Skrulls supposed to be a little dumb? Most of them seemed a little stupid for what I thought they were.

    Overall though still a solid entry. Maybe not top tier Marvel but the introduction is out of the way.
     
  14. KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    The First Avenger title was always awkward and strained to me. I honestly don't get the fan hang up given at no point is HE called the First Avenger in his film. Or in any other film for that matter.
     
  15. Speed Force Running

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    He's still the First Avenger since his film took place years before Captain Marvel and she isn't an Avenger yet
     
  16. Patrick77 Registered

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    It may have something to do with how Carol's story is presented, she is reconstructing her own story, essentially, and we are being asked to do that with her.

    Maria and Talos are pivotal because they give her a sense of who she was, and who she can be moving forward. Those scenes are the turning point.

    I was able to appreciate that aspect more the second time I saw the movie. Carol sees herself as a hero from the beginning of the film. She's right in a sense, but completely wrong in another sense.
     
  17. writer0327 Registered

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    Screentime is irrelevant ultimately to the impact a character has on a film. Anthony Hopkins is in Silence of the Lambs a whopping 16 minutes of screentime, yet his influence is felt throughout the entire narrative and his performance netted him an Academy Award for Best Actor. The question isn't how much time someone is on screen, its what is the affect of the character on the story.

    The story does follow Carol and her actions, however her story arc isn't as compelling as Talos'. Moreover, her role in the film seems to serve his story more so than her own. This happens a lot with minor characters in mystery novels and that's what this film is: a mystery to be unraveled. Talos drives a lot of the plot with his actions, including kidnapping Carol, disguising himself as Fury's boss and having Fury investigate, cornering Carol and Fury at the Pegasus base, giving Carol the black box details in exchange for her cooperation, a move which ultimately unlock Carol's memories. Even Carol's and Fury's escape from the orbit ship was made possible by Talos.

    Don't get me wrong, I liked Carol and the film but the film left me wanting her arc to rise above the conflict between the Skrulls and the Kree and the film to turn around and be about her. There was a little of it there between CM and Yon-Rogg at the end but it still failed to be as interesting as Talos' story.
     
  18. Patrick77 Registered

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    Only Fury's, from memory. Carol goes after Yon-Rogg and escapes separately, eventually saving Fury's ship. Maria is with Fury.

    I think that one can say that Talos functions almost like a traditional antagonist usually does. He has specific goals, and accomplishing those goals involve manipulating and confronting the hero who stands in his way.

    The difference is that he realizes early on that Carol is not like the other Kree, her story is not what he expected, and the two end up being allies. One can frequently debate whether the protagonist or antagonist has a more interesting story, like T'challa/Killmonger. Or Batman/Joker, and a lot of other examples.
     
    #43 Patrick77, Mar 11, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  19. KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    Hopkins in SOTL is still a poor attempt at comparison since the film is STILL about Starling. And you are going WAY over your skis comparing Talos' role or impact to Lecter's in their respective films.

    The story follws Carol from the start. Talos' story is obviously connected but it neither overshadows Carol nor is especially developed as a focus. It even is a misdirect to the audience for the majority of the film. Saying the movie came off more as the story of Talos and the Skrulls' is just a silly thing.
     
  20. writer0327 Registered

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    Agreed. I felt the same way about BP. T'challa is the least interesting character between the two, but in their case, at least hero/villain remained at odds throughout the majority of the film. In this case, after Talos reveals himself, the villain is no longer the villain and the protagonist and antagonist have aligned their goals in a coordinated manner. This happens in the 2nd act, and from there the question becomes "Who's objectives are being achieved?" Carol regains her memories in the 2nd act, but it takes the whole of the 3rd act for Talos to ultimately get his family back, expose the Kree, and take off to find a new home.

    A lot of good work is done to lift Carol out of a secondary role in the 3rd act, mainly through action scenes. It's something storytellers do quite often when other characters have overshadowed their main character for the most of the story.
     
  21. Patrick77 Registered

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    I disagree that Talos overshadows Carol in the first two acts. I agree more with Krypton on that point. I feel that you are over-stating that aspect by a lot.

    If anything, the interesting aspect of his story doesn't really start to emerge until we get to the pivotal moments of Carol's story. Until then, he comes across as a fairly typical villain, although well-acted. Sinister and snarky. Manipulative.

    But I do agree that the overall dynamic is interesting. People say, "Killmonger was right," for example. Here we can actually say: Talos was right. Maybe not completely, he admits to having a lot of blood on his hands. But anyway, more right than we are originally led to believe.

    I don't see any of this as a negative, though. It's a good thing about the film.
     
  22. writer0327 Registered

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    Oh no, my point was trying to equate "screentime" as some sort of measurement of who has the greatest impact on a the story is fallacy.

    Its the subtle difference between a "main character" and a "protagonist". Just as I just explained in another response, T'challa comes off the same way in his movie, his story is there but its less impactful on the conflict as a whole. In CM the story is about a Kree/Skrull conflict and our protagonist and antagonist eventually align. Who is responsible for this? Its Talos' actions that ultimately gain Carol's support. She didn't convince him to trust her, he convinced her to trust him. These are the actions that the protagonist takes usually.

    But you are free to see the film as you want. It just doesn't come off that way to me.
     
  23. shabadoo25 Registered

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    Minor quibble, but in Iron Man, Colson was struggling with the name of SHIELD and didn't use the acronym until the very end.

    In this movie set earlier, they are throwing the name SHIELD around willy nilly.
     
  24. writer0327 Registered

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    It is a very good thing about the film. Up until that point it felt very standard and then the change up elevated the film. I liked what they did but I wish Carol had a stronger arc than Talos did. Her story was the weakest aspect of the film. That's all.
     
  25. Mysteryman Registered

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    IM was an introductory movie to the entire universe.
    They went with the long name to give the actual name reveal a little bit more punch.
     

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