Qs you have/ things you liked/disliked about Capt Marvel [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Captain Marvel' started by Dark Raven, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. Patrick77 Registered

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    Carol's struggle is clearly central to the film, though. It's about her self-discovery, casting off the shackles that the Kree have placed on her, uncovering the truth about herself.

    Talos doesn't really change or evolve, although our perception of him does. It's Carol who changes, learns and evolves.

    So I don't think that there can be much hesitation on that point (as to who is the protagonist). We do have this atypical element of the antagonist not being the character who plays the normal role of the antagonist in the narrative. But that is part of Carol's journey of self-discovery.

    She discovers that she has been the antagonist, essentially, but that she was a hero before that, and can be again.
     
  2. writer0327 Registered

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    I disagree that her struggle is central to the objectives of the film conflict between the Kree and the Skrull. She wants to discover who she is, but she doesn't initially set off on a path of self discovery. In the narrative, she is on a mission like any other mission and in the middle it gets co-opted by Talos' goals and desires and he leads her around and reveals the information to her. Once she arrives on Earth, she desires to know who she is and why her path was hidden from her. After Talos shows her the info in the black box does she see the truth about the Kree.

    The details are all there but the script is not constructed very well. I think Carol discovering the Kree were the baddies who inhibited her all along and then seeking out Talos and convincing him they can help each other would've been better. To me anyway, because now she is taking the lead in the story instead of others.
     
  3. writer0327 Registered

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    I agree with this point. One of the highlights of the story.
     
  4. Patrick77 Registered

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    Well, that was one of the choices the writers made with the script: Carol doesn't know that she doesn't know, and we don't know either.

    But, as others have noted on these forums and elsewhere, it's a movie about patriarchal oppression as a kind of brainwashing that makes you forget who you really are, and what you're capable of. So I think that this element of the script was probably necessary for the writers to say what they wanted to say on that topic.

    Carol can't start out knowing that she has been deceived. That has to happen gradually.
     
  5. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    But he wasn't an Avenger in his film either whereas this film suggests the Avengers was named after Carol. So it almost makes her the first Avenger, or their name sake.

    I think Cap US should've had something on him that said Avenger, and that's where Fury got it from. Then Carol could've just been Warbird, and none of this retconning.
     
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  6. writer0327 Registered

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    I don't think it needed to happen gradually at all. That's my grievance with the script. If you set up as a mystery her characterization in the film suffers for it, because if she's trying to discover who she is, but you have the antagonist with clear motivations taking charge of all story beats, her arc feels "subplot-ish".

    The narrative plots out the action of Talos while Carol does business in service to the themes but not the plot. Maybe an early betrayal by Yon Rogg so she recognizes that the Kree are up to no good and not to be trusted works better in that regards. Then she can take action to seek out the truth. I hate how they handled her because the material was there to have her driving her own journey and arc, but it was de-emphasized in favor of keeping the mystery and creating a theme. It's all in the script, choices made in favor of the theme and plot instead of what elevates the character and her arc, and it results in a middling character who has truly great moments but not a great story.
     
  7. Patrick77 Registered

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    That's the central choice that the movie made, and what sets it apart from many origin stories.

    Carol is gradually reconstructing her own story, and rediscovering who she is, rather than simply setting out to discover her identity as a hero.

    Rediscovery, rather than discovery, which would be the regular thing.

    It worked much better for me the second time I saw the movie. I saw that this was the device initially, but I didn't really connect with it. The second time I did, and the big emotional beats had much more of an impact on me because of that.

    So I understand what you're saying, but I see it as a positive now.
     
  8. Mysteryman Registered

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    I really like that this feels like an origin story in reverse.
     
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  9. Ozbridge Registered

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    What I like most about the movie is the scene near the ending, when
    Jude Law's character manipulated her by appointing himself her mentor again (as if no betrayal/ brainwashing had happened) and said that she could only prove herself if she won in hand-to-hand combat with him. This reminds me of the scene at the beginning of the movie when they trained and he said almost the same thing. While the first scene is innocuous, it was still gaslighting (and when we knew of his true motive, it was manipulative/ abusive). When he challenged her at the end Carol ignored him, which sends a really powerful message: why does she have to beat him? Why does she have to fulfill some arbitrary rule that he made (up)? Her value doesn't at all depend on what he said about her.

    That's what I like most about the movie: breaking off from an abusive relationship and believing in one's own value.
     
  10. KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    My biggest issue with the finished product is they whiffed big time in making us believe in the supposed connection and inspiration Carol had with Lawson/Marv-Ell. They should have handled that a lot better.
     
  11. mclay18 Registered

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    The only thing I disliked about the movie is that it would’ve looked better had Boden & Fleck been allowed to shoot CM on actual film stock. Not that the movie didn’t look great (it did) but it would’ve helped with the 1990s aesthetic. Maybe for the sequel...
     
  12. Patrick77 Registered

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    I see your point. My feeling certainly was that the Carol/Maria and Carol/Talos connections felt stronger and more impactful.

    Conceptually,
    one can see the connection with Mar-vell looking to end the war and support the Skrulls already, so Carol ends up carrying on her legacy. But the relationship did end up feeling very fragmented, I guess partially because quite a few of the scenes are actually with the Supreme Intelligence.

    It's something that could evolve more in the sequel, I suppose. We may not have gotten the whole story there.
     
  13. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    What was it filmed on instead?


    Why are you putting spoiler tags? This is a spoiler thread where you can talk about it freely.
     
  14. Patrick77 Registered

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    The thread is marked as a spoiler thread, yeah, but I started to have my doubts that this was clear to everyone. It's not the main spoiler thread. Anyway. It only takes a second or two to add the tags.
     
  15. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    Well I created the thread, and I said it specifically in the very first post that you can post freely and talk about spoilers, so what is not clear about that?

    I created it so people wouldn't have to use tags.
     
  16. Patrick77 Registered

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    I get it. It's just a question of proceeding with caution, since the movie hasn't been out long. I've never really been bothered by spoilers, but some people really, really don't like being spoiled lol.
     
  17. MadVillainy C'mon Son

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    Jeez...
    It's not that deep if someone still wants to use spoiler tags
     
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  18. KevTravels Registered

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    I was happy to see Rhodey again.
     
  19. mclay18 Registered

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    It was captured on the Arri Alexa 65, Panavision Millennium DXL and Red Weapon 8K.

    Marvel likes using digital cameras to streamline workflow during filming and post production — which makes sense due to the tight schedules— but it seems like they discourage directors from being able to choose to shoot on film or use both formats if they want.

    I know Marc Webb was forced to use the Red Epic on TASM but had the leeway to shoot the sequel on 35mm. I hope Boden & Fleck use film for CM2, because film has a nice texture and feel that digital can’t quite replicate.
     
  20. KevTravels Registered

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    I liked the reveal that the Skrull weren't the bad guys. I just wish we got someone other than Jude Law. Or maybe if he had a different accent. Count me as one of those who recognizes his talent, but is always annoyed to see his face in a film (other than Sky Captain...).
     
  21. KevTravels Registered

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    I wish we had gotten more scenes of her in the jet. Maybe flashbacks to her and her co-pilot's time in the AF. They told us of their adversity, but they didn't show it (enough).
     
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  22. KevTravels Registered

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    kinda annoyed Lee and Djimon had such small roles. I figured they wouldn't have anything more, but had hoped some more lines at least. Maybe even a scene with the 2 of them discussing something.
     
  23. KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    This was also my biggest takeaway in terms of the theme. A hero/heroine has to know themselves before they can reach their fullest potential. If that is subverted or undermined by someone the hero can be led down a path where they not only don't ever self actualize but they themselves can fall prey to manipulation to the point they become unwitting agents of injustice.

    I think as a theme this was more relatable to a lot of female viewers and I ask male fans again to ask women in their lives to tell them if they have experience with that kibd of abuse and manipulation.
     
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  24. Joined:
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    Um? I guess the post credits scene counts...

    That would've been cool. I really liked that about First Man. It looked like it was in the 60's. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they're not back to direct though.

    Lol, right?
     
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  25. Mr.T Registered

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    I disliked the fact that it’s always an inside man in films like this. But we had 2 “inside” men and the Skrull twist caught me by surprise. I really liked that part of it.
    Otherwise, the movie tried too hard to tie into the current MCU. I wonder how Lawson got the “you know what” from Howard Stark?
     

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