Question about Hal Jordan and racism

[Saved]

He can't be racist! He's a Lantern and now the Spectre. He, like all heroes, makes mistakes.

 

[Canadian Rider]

I have a question for all you guys it's a two part question.I hope this will not offend anyone.You see I'm a white looking PUERTO RICAN from Brooklyn NY and grew up in a mixed area and knew a lot of kids that read comics.Growing up where I did I had a special insite in to what I call "watered down racism" and that is to mean people that would rather not be around others but dont have a choice.Many times the white guys I knew would say something about blacks forgething that I was not white and the same would happen with my black friends who knew I was not white and say something abouts whites.Now me and my friends have had this very debate many times and I found that most of my white friends thought that Hal was not a racist while my black friends thought he was.Now I have to say I have read the story many times and I always thought that he did come off as a bit of a social biget and a racist.
Now I was wondering where the divide fell here on the hype.

Why did you friends feel he was racist? This comic? or his attitude? The reason I ask is that I don't remember any other comic even coming near this debate.

Superman had that black ... oh wait. But Batman's best friend was ... oh wait.

Hal's best friend might have been as Terry78 might suggest a "token" but at least he was there.

I would apprecaite your thoughts. I never got that and I read them with my brother at the time. Of course I am a "white male" living in Toronto so I tried to look for stuff like that to discuss with friends.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Why did you friends feel he was racist? This comic? or his attitude? The reason I ask is that I don't remember any other comic even coming near this debate.

Superman had that black ... oh wait. But Batman's best friend was ... oh wait.

Hal's best friend might have as Terry78 might suggest a "token" but at least he was there.

I would apprecaite your thoughts. I never got that and I read them with my brother at the time. Of course I am a "white male" living in Toronto so I tried to look for stuff like that to discuss with friends.

I would have to say it was his attitude.We all felt the book was writen quite fairly and we all loved the book.We were all pretty pissed when it was canceled.Most of the white guys I grew up with thought that we were reading to much into this but we were living in a area and a time where we encountered the same kind of issues.

 

[Aristotle]

Now, I dont know about Hal beign racist but you KNOW Guy Gardner had a confederate flag in the back window of his chevy in high school. You just know it.

No, as I recall, Guy was a decent person, even a teacher, before he went like crazy or some ****. Hit in the head or something. The Guardians almost-not-really-selected him before this occurrence. They'd never have selected that piece of **** after it.

 

[Aristotle]

Superman had that black ...

I believe the word you were looking for was "girlfriend."

But Batman's best friend was ... oh wait.

Who can really say "friend" when referring to Batman, but his financial advisor was Lucius Fox, and Fox is as close to friendship that Batman comes, outside of the superheroic community (that includes Alfred). And you know what Lucius Fox is? Well, aside from an astute financial powerhouse who has really made the Wayne Corporation a viable international corporate player while maintaining its business philosophy of goodwill and basic global stewardship, he's black.

That's one dapper black Batfriend.

 

[Canadian Rider]

I would have to say it was his attitude.We all felt the book was writen quite fairly and we all loved the book.We were all pretty pissed when it was canceled.Most of the white guys I grew up with thought that we were reading to much into this but we were living in a area and a time where we encountered the same kind of issues.

You were coming at it with your experiences and your views of the world. I get that. I also get that people who have been hurt or oppressed are on the lookout. The Israelis love when you come into the airport in Jerusalem looking like Osama Bin Laden. I get your take as well.

It is always interesting how people react to stories and words. Thanks. I appreciate the honesty and I guess we all see things from our view regardless of what the author may have originally intended. While their motivations may have been in one direction or with one idea in mind, we can all read things into a story as well as reading between lines that perhaps weren't originally in the author's mind. Cool discussion.

 

[Canadian Rider]

I believe the word you were looking for was "girlfriend."

Who can really say "friend" when referring to Batman, but his financial advisor was Lucius Fox, and Fox is as close to friendship that Batman comes, outside of the superheroic community (that includes Alfred). And you know what Lucius Fox is? Well, aside from an astute financial powerhouse who has really made the Wayne Corporation a viable international corporate player while maintaining its business philosophy of goodwill and basic global stewardship, he's black.

That's one dapper black Batfriend.

And we see them as extensively as we did Hal's friend Tom Kalmaku or pieface? Superman married ... oh wait.
I have almost every trade of Bat's and while he was heavily involved in the movie, we don't see much of him in the monthly comics. That was more to the point.

The continual relationship that was critical to the character's development. In fact one of the key parts of Hal's redemption story was his visit to Tom and a discussion about their relationship and what he meant to Hal.

I see your point though.

 

[Eros]

superman hasn't talked to a black guy in yearslol, we[balck people] are never in any of his moives, and we get writtnen out of his Tv shows. The truth is, considering what year these charater were created [30s50s etc] its not hard to beleive they may racist.

 

[Aristotle]

And we see them as extensively as we did Hal's friend Tom Kalmaku or pieface?

I'd say since the revamps of the Batman and Green Lantern, we've seen more of Lucius than we have of Tom.

Superman married ... oh wait.

That was what we call "a joke."

I have almost every trade of Bat's and while he was heavily involved in the movie, we don't see much of him in the monthly comics. That was more to the point.

He's involved when it makes sense for him to be involved, like Blind Justice or Cataclysm. But no, he hasn't been around as much as Tom was back in the Silver Age. Non-heroic sidekicks don't make as much sense as they used to.

 

[Assassin]

It strikes me that people so concerned about making judgments on coolness are in no position to be doing so.

Listen here noob, this is an inside joke 2 years in the making, so shut the hell up.

 

[Artistsean]

I have a question for all you guys it's a two part question.I hope this will not offend anyone.You see I'm a white looking PUERTO RICAN from Brooklyn NY and grew up in a mixed area and knew a lot of kids that read comics.Growing up where I did I had a special insite in to what I call "watered down racism" and that is to mean people that would rather not be around others but dont have a choice.Many times the white guys I knew would say something about blacks forgething that I was not white and the same would happen with my black friends who knew I was not white and say something abouts whites.Now me and my friends have had this very debate many times and I found that most of my white friends thought that Hal was not a racist while my black friends thought he was.Now I have to say I have read the story many times and I always thought that he did come off as a bit of a social biget and a racist.
Now I was wondering where the divide fell here on the hype.

So you read these issues?
Great, maybe you can answer me this. Was he made slightly, or watered down as you said, racist in order for the comic to address this issue and have him change over time?
I have never seen these comics, and found thse pics on the internet, so I thought I'd ask someone who has actually read it.

 

[Assassin]

superman hasn't talked to a black guy in yearslol, we[balck people] are never in any of his moives, and we get writtnen out of his Tv shows. The truth is, considering what year these charater were created [30s50s etc] its not hard to beleive they may racist.

Have you seen superman 3? it stared a black guy, the movie was written around richard pryor, so shut your face!

 

[Canadian Rider]

I think he ... as many of us who saw that film did ... buried it deep in our subconcious and vowed never to unlock those memories again. Much the same with Superman 4, Batman and Robin, Rambo 2 and beyond etc.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

So you read these issues?
Great, maybe you can answer me this. Was he made slightly, or watered down as you said, racist in order for the comic to address this issue and have him change over time?
I have never seen these comics, and found thse pics on the internet, so I thought I'd ask someone who has actually read it.

Yes he was.Before the 1970 teaming of Denny O'Neil & Neal Adams on the book Green Lantern story's delt with alien/fantasy fights and very little else.I think it was done in an atempt to make more socially conscious story's.There is no evidence of Hal being a racist before these story's.I think the writer's were trying to expand on what they thought the hero's personalty would be like for that era.
I think that DC has put these story's into a trade you should look for them their a great read.

 

[Mr.Dent]

Isn't one of Aquaman's villains, Black Manta, like....REALLY, racist? And I'm talking, "Kill all the whiteys!" kinda racist, or am I remembering wrong?

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Isn't one of Aquaman's villains, Black Manta, like....REALLY, racist? And I'm talking, "Kill all the whiteys!" kinda racist, or am I remembering wrong?

I think their are quite a few Bad gut racist in the DC universe.

 

[Eros]

Have you seen superman 3? it stared a black guy, the movie was written around richard pryor, so shut your face!

yes and superman 3 was a utter disgrace.

 

[Darthphere]

Why does Hal need to help the black skins, why can't they help themselves? [/racist]

 

[Assassin]

yes and superman 3 was a utter disgrace.

because it was a superman movie staring Richard pryor..

 

[Eros]

because it was a superman movie staring Richard pryor..

whoever that negro was in that movie, that was not legendary Rich Pryor.

 

[Artistsean]

Whatever number it was, I think it was 3, that was indeed Richard Pryor.

So these stories had Hal being semi racist, only a little bit, but then changing and seeing how very wrong he was. Now he isn't written with any racism at all.
They, Neil Adams and the writer whose name escapes me, used the character of Hal to tackle serious issues like racism.

Does anyone still see Hal as a racist today, because of these past stories?

 

[Eros]

Whatever number it was, I think it was 3, that was indeed Richard Pryor.

So these stories had Hal being semi racist, only a little bit, but then changing and seeing how very wrong he was. Now he isn't written with any racism at all.
They, Neil Adams and the writer whose name escapes me, used the character of Hal to tackle serious issues like racism.

Does anyone still see Hal as a racist today, because of these past stories?

Hes boring, but hes not a racist.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

So these stories had Hal being semi racist, only a little bit, but then changing and seeing how very wrong he was. Now he isn't written with any racism at all.
They, Neil Adams and the writer whose name escapes me, used the character of Hal to tackle serious issues like racism.

Does anyone still see Hal as a racist today, because of these past stories?

To me it's hard to forget.It's like Archie Bunker in the first few season's of All in the Family...at first he was an out right racist[to every kind of people I might add] but towards the end of the show and the spinn off he had changed a lot.Now I know that Hal is not writen in this fashion but it's hard for me to let go of the idea and to be honest I would rather not forget.To me it give's Hal more character for him to have once been in the wrong...to realize it ..and to have grown from that knowledge.

 

[The Leaguer]

Nah, no tears. I'm just sick of your tired gimmick.

Then ignore me again. You didn't seem to cry as much back then.

 

[The Question]

Who can really say "friend" when referring to Batman, but his financial advisor was Lucius Fox, and Fox is as close to friendship that Batman comes, outside of the superheroic community (that includes Alfred). And you know what Lucius Fox is? Well, aside from an astute financial powerhouse who has really made the Wayne Corporation a viable international corporate player while maintaining its business philosophy of goodwill and basic global stewardship, he's black.

That's one dapper black Batfriend.

Also, while it was never stated as explicitly as in Batman Begins, it's been implied that Lucious figured out that Bruce is Batman after noticing that quite a few leftovers from Waynetech's now terminated military contracts mysteriously dissapeared.