Questions for other Swamp Thing fans...

Discussion in 'DC Comics' started by Supperhero, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Supperhero

    Supperhero Supreme Keeper of the X-Men Movie Continuity

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    Well, my questions are simple... they are related to Swamp Thing's origins.

    1- Is Holland's bio-restorative serum having been "retconned" (by Moore) as totally useless/unnecessary in the creation of Swamp Thing? I'm saying this because the other members of the Parliament of Trees have been created when an animal burning in flames have met the earth. No serum involved, of course. This angle kinda disappoints me, but I'm asking anyway...

    2- In the new DC continuity, is Swamp Thing still the creator of the Parliament of Trees via time travel? And are the older members of the Parliament to be considered "copies" of Swamp Thing/Alec anyway? I just haven't read those stories (yet).

    3- Is the new DC continuity discarding the Alan Moore origin?

    4- Was the final Alan Moore ST story suitable for being considered as the "definitive ending" of Swamp Thing, theorically speaking?

    Thank you so much.
     
    #1 Supperhero, Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  2. CrimsonMist

    CrimsonMist Registered

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    To answer your questions,

    1. Correct. The Bio-Restorative formula, in the end, had nothing to do with Holland's transformation into Swamp Thing. As established by Alan Moore in "The Anatomy Lesson", when the Sunderland Corp. exhumed Linda Holland's corpse, they found a decent amount of the formula within her system, which obviously had not affected her at all. Although it is initially hypothesized by Jason Woodrue that Swamp Thing came about because the plant matter in the swamp, dosed by the bio restorative formula, was able to absorb Holland's consciousness. Then this was expanded upon when Swamp Thing discovers he's actually an elemental.

    2. You're referring to Doug Wheeler's half-assed conclusion to Rick Veitch's run wherein Swamp Thing travelled so far back in time that he was responsible for creating the Parliament in the first place? I'm not so sure if it's in continuity anymore. More likely, it was either forgotten or ignored. It's been a while since I've read the Nancy Collins and Mark Millar runs on the character, which proceeded Wheeler's, but I don't recall it ever taking hold.

    3. Swamp Thing's origin is kinda weird now. Everything pre-Flashpoint happened. During Blackest Night/Brightest Day, the Moore Swamp Thing become corrupt by Nekron and the White Lantern thing made a new Swamp Thing that was actually a transformed Alec Holland. And then the New52 established that Alec Holland was dead, had his consciousness absorbed by a plant creature and had Swamp Thing adventures. And then got better. BUT he had to become Swamp Thing again, but would be better because flesh was involved this time, and it would make him an even better Swamp Thing...As I said, it's kind of messy and needless. I found Snyder and Soule's runs to be amongst the worst Swamp Thing books. TLDR - The Moore origin is still in tact more or less. They just went around in circles with it.

    4. Not sure exactly what you mean, but when I first read Moore's Swamp Thing, I found it pretty open and shut. If they stopped making Swamp Thing comics after Moore's run concluded, I would have been fine. But there's some gold in the runs that followed Moore.
     
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  3. Supperhero

    Supperhero Supreme Keeper of the X-Men Movie Continuity

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    Thank you so much for your answers; you're the only one in the net that gave me an extensive and detailed feedback on these points.

    1- Yeah. On the other hand, Linda didn't come in contact with the swamp when she died.
    So basically, how did the Parliament affect that localized vegetal matter in order to turn it into Swamp Thing? That seems to me a bit "forced". How did the Parliament infuse the vegetal matter with Alec's consciousness and memories? I would have preferred having Alec becoming an "Elemental Agent" in the aftermath. Recruited by the Parliament.

    2- I tend to take Moore's run as the climax and the definitive canon of Swamp Thing, so if this time travel stuff comes after Moore, to me it's not "canonical" - not in my mind, of course.

    3- LMAO. DC Comics is a giant mess since "Infinite Crisis". At least for me. I didn't like the New 52 continuity.

    4- Yeah! You answered my question. How did the last Alan Moore issue end for Alec and Abby, however?
     
  4. CrimsonMist

    CrimsonMist Registered

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    I'm gonna really have to sift through my Swamp Thing books again, but the general process to become an elemental was that an animal needed to die by fire and become one with the plant matter around it. It's just a "way of the world" kind of thing, though I believe Scott Snyder tried passing it off as the world trying to create a warrior in times of strife. That said, I did peruse though my Nancy Collins penned issues, and he is referred to by a parliament member Lady Jane as "Prime Founder" so the idea of Swamp Thing being the one who created the Parliament made it that far at least.

    I think you should open your mind a bit to Post-Moore Swamp Thing. Rick Veitch's run is particularly outstanding, and the last handful of issues before he abruptly quit the book are some of his best. He started the backwards time travel arc, but did not finish it unfortunately. But his run is excellent. Doug Wheeler had the misfortune of taking over from Vietch's unfinished arc and concluding it, and his run is spotty at best, but he had some good ideas. Nancy Collins' run on the character is incredible and so is Mark Millar's run that followed, where he turned Swamp Thing into a Planet Elemental. I kinda stop there. Brian K. Vaughn's Swamp Thing was pretty awful, and the Andy Diggle/Joshua Dysart runs were both forgettable. I actually can't stand Snyder or Soule's runs at all. So I think Tom King and Jason Fabok's winter special book (that recently won an Eisner award) is probably the best Swamp Thing story since Millar.

    Indeed. New52 continuity was wonky. There IS an issue in Soule's run where the New52 Swamp Thing meets the Moore Swamp Thing and they reconcile the two continuities a bit, but it doesn't make the New52 Swamp Thing any better.

    Moore's send off for Swamp Thing and Abby? They're reunited after Swamp Thing's return from space and spend their days living in the swamp. It's a pretty satisfying conclusion.
     
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  5. Supperhero

    Supperhero Supreme Keeper of the X-Men Movie Continuity

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    Yeah, I guess the origins of the Plant Elementals are just accidental, and maybe the bio-restorative formula still played some role in that anyway - at least, according to Moore.

    I just watched the avatar image of the more prominent Swamp Thing facebook page (counting about 5000 users), and I absolutely loved that artwork! Swamp Things looks huge and menacing... and I love the way they depicted his body, that looks like a visionary painting.

    Thank you so much for your advices, they are great.
     
  6. Supperhero

    Supperhero Supreme Keeper of the X-Men Movie Continuity

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    I've watched "Justice League Dark" yesterday, and it's interesting to see that they re-adapted Swamp Thing's nature for that parallel universe. Swamp Thing has been apparently "built up" around Alec Holland's corpse, and he retains a human consciousness. In the movie, the villain Destiny separates Swamp Thing from Alec Holland's corpse and Thing loses his human consciousness/will.
     

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