Rank and Review all 5 Batfilms.

[Kevin Roegele]

#1 Batman movie: Batman Returns - I doubt any Batman movie could ever reach these artistic heights again. It's somewhat of an anomaly that Burton had such creative control on such a huge money-making project - something Warner Bros were quick to learn from. Returns goes inside Bruce Wayne's head to create a Gothic netherworld where the central, doomed characters all embody elements of Bruce's troubled psyche. To the sounds of Danny Elfman's ever-escalating choral mayhem, they attempt to work together, but eventually they clash and destroy each other. Is there any Batman story, comic or otherwise, with such a dark outcome? Throw in Michelle Pfeiffer's incredible Catwoman and Danny DeVito's horrific yet somehow sympathetic Penguin - Burton actually improved these characters - and somehow Christopher Walken is the sanest part of the film. You have film noir, German Expressionism, Dr Suess, penguins with rocket launchers - who else but Burton could pull off all these diverse elements? It truly does work on so many levels. Batman Returns is a beautiful, haunting, flawed masterpiece. No, Returns doesn't stay slavishly true to the comics, no it doesn't try and make Batman as believable as possible like Begins; Returns elevates the story of Batman to a whole new level.

 

[Batwing6655]

Maybe it's just me, but the "Batwing"'s split second moment of glory against the moon doesn't hold a candle to a single instance I cited. None of the awe or terror of Batman is ever felt in Burton's films. He just feels like a rich guy in a rubber suit with a weird hobby. His motivation is visited briefly enough to render it pretty much useless, which doesn't help.

And no iconic moments? Are you kidding me? The movie was practically built on iconic moments.

ummmm.....that your opinion? batman in B89 had plenty of "terror" moments, hanging the guy from a roof, shooting the jokers men to death, gliding down onto unsuspecting bad guys, etc etc. there was alot of scary batman moments in B89 that you tend to ignore to glorify BB even more. BB wasnt a gosend IMO, it was a good film, but i only remember bruce wayne, not batman. in B89, it was BATMAN, and he was cool. but then again it wasnt called batman begins, so im not surprised.

and just because YOU deem it "useless" doesnt mean a thing. it was awsome, ppl loved it, and STILL love it, and it DOES hold a candle to BB, as it was just more memorable and cooler then anything i saw in BB. simple as that.

 

[PunisherPoster]

BB did have some iconic moments, but i guess time will only tell if it will be as "memorable" as B89 and BR were. personally, IMO, BB will never be as memorable as B89. i cant see BB being remembered as much as B89 will be in the next 10 years.

This was my feeling about BB as well. The whole thing was a little too calculated in my opinion, and you were constantly aware they were trying to make up for Batman and Robin.

There were lots of memorable images, but they were lifted directly from the comics. 'Iconic' doesn't just mean it makes you say, "Oooh, that's a pose from Year One!!!" Forever also had things taken directly from the comics, but I don't think anyone considers them 'iconic'.

A film should create lasting images that evoke- but don't copy- the comics. For my money, that one shot of Batman facing the batsignal (on the back of the new B89 dvd) is more iconic than any frame of film in BB. And that includes the numerous 'gargoyle poses' throughout.

 

[Batwing6655]

#1 Batman movie: Batman Returns - I doubt any Batman movie could ever reach these artistic heights again. It's somewhat of an anomaly that Burton had such creative control on such a huge money-making project - something Warner Bros were quick to learn from. Returns goes inside Bruce Wayne's head to create a Gothic netherworld where the central, doomed characters all embody elements of Bruce's troubled psyche. To the sounds of Danny Elfman's ever-escalating choral mayhem, they attempt to work together, but eventually they clash and destroy each other. Is there any Batman story, comic or otherwise, with such a dark outcome? Throw in Michelle Pfeiffer's incredible Catwoman and Danny DeVito's horrific yet somehow sympathetic Penguin - Burton actually improved these characters - and somehow Christopher Walken is the sanest part of the film. You have film noir, German Expressionism, Dr Suess, penguins with rocket launchers - who else but Burton could pull off all these diverse elements? It truly does work on so many levels. Batman Returns is a beautiful, haunting, flawed masterpiece. No, Returns doesn't stay slavishly true to the comics, no it doesn't try and make Batman as believable as possible like Begins; Returns elevates the story of Batman to a whole new level.

totally awsome post man. that is so true. burton is a genius. for NOT staying totally true to the comics (otherwise it would be pretty boring IMO). and his gotham city was a masterpiece of artwork, im glad they used his gotham for B:TAS. and michelle pfeiffer is a godess. and keaton rules as batman, especially that one pic with him holding the detonator, cool pic! why is it that keaton is still the most awsome batman? i mean, he just oozes "cool".

 

[Milkman95]

Burton's films were good, but far from being genius. Danny DeVito's Penguin was downright ridiculous, which in turn, brought the entire film down for me. His rocket launching Penguins were even more laughable. Pfeiffer's Catwoman was great though. What also brought the film down for me is even though we explore Wayne's messed up head, we never get to know him, or his motivations. BB is definitely the best live-action film to date, which further explores his origins and motivations - we finally get to know him and his reasons for becoming this creature of the night. I like Burton's Gotham, but I can also appreciate Nolan's gritty realism approach as well - it felt more epic. We didn't have the mighty batmobile racing down the same street a few times going 30mph - that was a nice change.........

Anyways, I'll be picking up all 5 films, and will enjoy each on of them in their own way, even though B&R is God awful, I'll still check out the special features............

 

[Batwing6655]

im not sure when ppl say BR and B89 are "flawed". i dont see the flaws, just great filmmaking. for me, devito's penguin WAS genius, he totally became that character, he wasnt devito anymore, AT ALL. he had me fooled as a kid, and still does today. he was great. they were all great. the burton films had great casting, and everyone fitted there parts perfectly. we all know that for B&R, NOBODY fitted there roles at all. schumacher you suck. and i also like the fact that not everything is explained in the burton films. leaves that mystetry element that ws lacking in BB. everything was oover-explained in BB, and there was no mystery to batman anymore. that kinda left me with a "................" frame of mind walking out of the theater.

 

[Milkman95]

Sorry, but they're flawed. From the mis-casting of several actors, to the outlandish fishboy Penguin, it had flaws. But because of Tim Burton, he made it work within the warped world he created, and I can appreciate what he was trying to do. Danny DeVito did do a great job - that's not the issue. My issue was Burton took it too far for my taste with his flipper hands and rocket launching Penguins. But that's just me...........

 

[Batwing6655]

the flipper hands were awsome! it was a much-needed addition to the penguin, who was otherwise a damn boring character in the comics. thank God for burton, he made a boring character awsome. peguin is a mobster. omg, big whoop. how *YAWN* boring, and bland. burton made a boring villian an AWSOME villian, and i dont think penguin would be as popular as he is if it werent for burton. and miscasting in YOUR opinion, i think everyone did perfectly in there respective roles. i cant see anyone playing those characters other then them.

srry, but not everybody worships BB slavishly like you.

 

[Voyeur]

This was my feeling about BB as well. The whole thing was a little too calculated in my opinion, and you were constantly aware they were trying to make up for Batman and Robin.

This might be true if Chris Nolan cared about B&R but I don't think he did. He and everyone directly involved in BB seemed interested in exploring Bruce Wayne's character and telling a good story. I don't think a the director or the actors were saying, 'gee, I hope this makes up for the last film.'

If anything WB and possibly DC were hoping BB would make up for the past, but all indications are that they allowed Nolan freedom to make the film he wanted to make.

So if some viewers were "constantly aware they were trying to make up for Batman and Robin", it's their imagination.

I have to admit, I'm stunned when I read negative comments about BB from people who consider themselves Batman fans. It seems that they come from people who love the Burton films. I read the comics long before the first Burton film, so maybe that's why I don't harbor the warm fuzzies about it.

 

[Milkman95]

the flipper hands were awsome! it was a much-needed addition to the penguin, who was otherwise a damn boring character in the comics. thank God for burton, he made a boring character awsome. peguin is a mobster. omg, big whoop. how *YAWN* boring, and bland. burton made a boring villian an AWSOME villian, and i dont think penguin would be as popular as he is if it werent for burton. and miscasting in YOUR opinion, i think everyone did perfectly in there respective roles. i cant see anyone playing those characters other then them.

srry, but not everybody worships BB slavishly like you.

Sorry, not everybody worships BR like you do either. The Penguin could be a good character WITHOUT having to make him into a mutant. Like I said, I do appreciate what Burton tried to do, but in the end, it was too warped IMO. Get over yourself.

 

[Milkman95]

This might be true if Chris Nolan cared about B&R but I don't think he did. He and everyone directly involved in BB seemed interested in exploring Bruce Wayne's character and telling a good story. I don't think a the director or the actors were saying, 'gee, I hope this makes up for the last film.'

If anything WB and possibly DC were hoping BB would make up for the past, but all indications are that they allowed Nolan freedom to make the film he wanted to make.

So if some viewers were "constantly aware they were trying to make up for Batman and Robin", it's their imagination.

I have to admit, I'm stunned when I read negative comments about BB from people who consider themselves Batman fans. It seems that they come from people who love the Burton films. I read the comics long before the first Burton film, so maybe that's why I don't harbor the warm fuzzies about it.

That's exactly what it is - people that either became Batman fans because of the Burton films or they're just Burton fans in general. They probably didn't read any Batman comics before the first film came out. Oh well, to each their own..........

 

[PunisherPoster]

If anything WB and possibly DC were hoping BB would make up for the past, but all indications are that they allowed Nolan freedom to make the film he wanted to make.

This is what I meant by that, and it's not really a stretch to say that the studio was hoping to erase the memory of B+R well before BB was greenlit.

As for 'true fans' not liking it...the first person I called after seeing BB was the most comic-obsessed guy I know...and he didn't really care for it! (Actually, he enjoyed it as a film, but thought much of it was overkill. Is Bruce really that much of a mystery to anyone?)

But I don't think any fans are overly negative towards it, it's just that not everyone considers it the sacred cow most of the online (or under 20) fans do. As a result, if anyone doesn't shower it with praise, it looks like heresy.

Personally, I'm just not a big fan of trying to make every comic film as realistic as possible. There are times when I'd much rather have the fantasy elements intact, and feel as though I'm watching a comic book instead of a graphic novel. I want to just suspend belief and believe that Batman can do whatever...I don't really need to try and be convinced that *maybe* it could really happen. (It's not going to convince me anyway, because I did the research as a kid! No amount of technical jargon is going to erase the memories of my numerous broken bones.)

Oh, and it has nothing to do with the Burton films. To be honest, I think the best interpretation of Batman is still TAS.

 

[Batwing6655]

That's exactly what it is - people that either became Batman fans because of the Burton films or they're just Burton fans in general. They probably didn't read any Batman comics before the first film came out. Oh well, to each their own..........

yes, i believe that the case with most batman fans around the ages of 18-20 who literally grew up with the burton films. i am a burton fan AND a batman fan. and yes, i have read some of the comics, and i happen to have a few issues with the penguin. what have i discovered? peguin sucks in the comics. i enjoyed burtons mildly different take, and im sure everyone who saw it did too. i dont "worship" BR, just like you dont seem to be "worshipping" BB. but the thing is, we each have our own fav. batman films. some ppl LOVE burtons films more, some ppl ditch them (sadly) for the "new" batman. BB pleased the hardcore fans more. just cuz ebert "loved" it doesnt mean his opinion rules all. B89 in the public eye is still considered the best batman (not surprised). BB was only a speck of B89's glory.

but the thing is, you cant compare nolans and burton. there 2 different batmans, and not part of the same "franchise" (though ppl can really mistake BB as a B89 prequel). so its unfair to compare them. its simple: some ppl prefer burtons films, some ppl prefer nolans. you cant change that. so lets not try to. there all good, IN DIFFERENT WAYS. lets stop the arguing, its pretty pointless.

 

[Milkman95]

^I agree, no need to argue. Like I said, I really appreciate what Burton did, and I enjoy those two Batman films he did. I think I just prefer Nolan's take better at this time. Who knows, if another director down the line takes it in yet ANOTHER direction, which is different than both Nolan's and Burton's, I could prefer that at that time........

 

[Batwing6655]

i guess im just an old spirit. i like the fact that B89 and BR has that "timless-ness" and looks kinda like the 30's/40's with the trenchcoats, fedoras, etc. its just cool. im not to into modern day technology/stuff etc., so haveing BB set in "todays" world wasnt as intrigueing to me as haveing in set in the older times, as well as a little modern too. and the characters in BB werent as........excting? is that the word? i dunno, just didnt click with me.

 

[Milkman95]

i guess im just an old spirit. i like the fact that B89 and BR has that "timless-ness" and looks kinda like the 30's/40's with the trenchcoats, fedoras, etc. its just cool. im not to into modern day technology/stuff etc., so haveing BB set in "todays" world wasnt as intrigueing to me as haveing in set in the older times, as well as a little modern too. and the characters in BB werent as........excting? is that the word? i dunno, just didnt click with me.

I'll give you that - the villains in BB were not the flashy villains that the other films had, but this was Bruce Wayne's story, the villains clearly took a back seat. In the next film, expect to see more exciting villains - The Penguin, The Joker, and Black Mask will be making appearance more than likely........

 

[Cain]

Here's the thing, all the Batman movies have thier flaws. I say this as a person who's read Batman comics for the past 16 years. But most comics fans see more flaws than the average person because they're nitpicky. They expect to see direct translations of their favorite comic books and not adaptations. This applies to every comic based film which is where the problem is.

A lot (READ: not all) of them can't seem to enjoy themselves because they don't view them as stand alone stories just like a lot of the comics are. They can't fathom a different interpretation of what they're already very familiar with. They're comics fans not fans of film so they can't really grasps the differences between both mediums.

Movie fans on the other hand they have no baggage going into these films. They just want an entertaining film that helps them escape reality for a couple of hours. I view every single Batman movie I watch as a film fan not as a fan of the comics. Maybe that's why I enjoy them a lot more than your average comic book fan. Believe it or not I know some people who hate BB just as much as they do the Burton films. They're of course fans of the Batman comics, It's not my fault that they're not open minded enough to enjoy the changes made by the creators for their film version of the mythos. Yeah it's not a reflection of what you read in the comic books. But newsflash, these aren't the comics.

This post goes to anybody who ignorantly hates one Batman film and likes another due to it's "faithfulness" when none of them have ever been completely faithful. It doesn't go out to those who could make constructive arguments as to why they dislike a film. When people just go "such & such was crap cause it was too different from the comics" that argument holds no weight because Sin City aside there really hasn't been and never will be a 100% faithful comic adaptation. Certain elements will be spot on but others will be changed for the film format. I really loved Sin City by the way, it's not that I dislike very faithful translations of the comics. However I know a lot of people who are just film fans who think that movie was complete garbage.

People need to realize that many times the stories from the comics have no appeal to anybody but just us, the fans of the comics. Which is why Sin City didn't go on to make over $100 million or such. Because 70% of the people who went to see that flick were already fans of the Sin City series of comic books throughout the years. See I could sit here and give many reasons as to why The Crow sucked because it was pretty different from James O'Barr's story. But it is a great film based on a great comic property. It was a faithful adaptation because it kept the fundamentals of the story but at no point copied it frame for frame. It manages to appeal to people that the comics do not appeal to and that is the point of making these types of films in the first place.

I don't know I'm just tired of seeing "monkey see, monkey do" posts all around SHH I think people should actually come with valid reasons if they're going to downtalk something or just not post at all. It will help these forums out a lot. Sorry for the rant and this post will make zero difference around the way things are in SHH. Just needed to put it out there, peace.

 

[Batwing6655]

i totally agree with you cain, your absolutly right. i enjoyed BB as a film, and i enjoyed BR and B89 as films. i have to say, im more of a film buff then a batman buff in some ways, and personally, i enjoyed burtons films more just because they totally captivated me like no other film (until LOTR's, lol). when i saw BB, i loved it as a film and it was batman, but it wasnt as exciting and throwing as the burton films were for me. and preferences of style, mood, and overall way of storytelling affected my decsion of which batman film i liked better. for me, its burton all the way, it just was more interesting, dealt with more problems, and i liked keatons batman ALOT.

and i totally agree with you about likeing a comic book character but also being able to watch a movie that isnt "frame by frame" to the comics, etc. when i watch B89, there are some moments that were breathtaking that were NOT from the comics, in BB there were alot of moments taken right from the comics, but it didnt leave a lasting impression with me like the burton films did with its unique iconic imagery.

you made a wonderful post cain. you truly understand.

 

[PunisherPoster]

I never considered myself a Burton fan or a huge fan of Keaton's Batman at the time, but I must say those films have really grown on me over the years.

And to reference the earlier BR pics, I have to say, that film still has the best visual look of the entire franchise. I know many complain that the Batsuit was far too bulky, but damn if that thing didn't look cool!

 

[Cain]

and i totally agree with you about likeing a comic book character but also being able to watch a movie that isnt "frame by frame" to the comics, etc. when i watch B89, there are some moments that were breathtaking that were NOT from the comics, in BB there were alot of moments taken right from the comics, but it didnt leave a lasting impression with me like the burton films did with its unique iconic imagery.

you made a wonderful post cain. you truly understand.

I agree with that, I think Batman jumping through the flugelheim skylight, the "Im Batman" scene and the batmobile blowing up Axis chemicals are iconic film moments. So is the Batmobile scene from Gotham to the Batcave & the Joker's scene at city hall. As well as the scene in Returns where Batman's trying to ditch the cops. BB had a lot of moments like that as well though. IMO none of the more obvious comic influenced moments in BB outside of the year one nod were really iconic more like "oh I know that from such & such" nothing that made me go "that's some cool *****".

To me the other iconic moments were

Bruce being a complete prick to his guests at the party with his "drunk" speech. He's never been that rude in the comics not even when he needed to be that way because he wanted to save people like he did in the movie. I found that to be a welcome change to the Bruce Wayne "image"

The dock scene, Batman's always been evasive, moved very swiftly and used the shadows to his advantage in the comics. But I've never seen it played out the way it was in this film. It became a borderline horror movie.

Lastly, Crane's interpretation of Batman under the influence of a hallucinogen those are moments that will stick in my mind for many years to come. So to me they were definitely iconic.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Sorry, not everybody worships BR like you do either. The Penguin could be a good character WITHOUT having to make him into a mutant. Like I said, I do appreciate what Burton tried to do, but in the end, it was too warped IMO. Get over yourself.

First off, Penguin prior to Returns, was a god awful character. All he did was steal bird-themed artifacts and have umbrellas with some bizarre gadget in them. No matter what, Penguin was going to get a remake no matter what.

Second, he wasn't a mutant. The nose is a trademark and flipper hands are real. It's called ectrodactyly, it's when the skin between your fingers doesn't fall off when you're a fetus. He was a social outcast who was manipulated by Shrek which made him a tragic villain. Far more deep than the lame, heist-pulling Penguin before. He was a good character, the only gripe people have is he was a "mutant".

 

[Milkman95]

First off, Penguin prior to Returns, was a god awful character. All he did was steal bird-themed artifacts and have umbrellas with some bizarre gadget in them. No matter what, Penguin was going to get a remake no matter what.

Second, he wasn't a mutant. The nose is a trademark and flipper hands are real. It's called ectrodactyly, it's when the skin between your fingers doesn't fall off when you're a fetus. He was a social outcast who was manipulated by Shrek which made him a tragic villain. Far more deep than the lame, heist-pulling Penguin before. He was a good character, the only gripe people have is he was a "mutant".

Your opinion. I do agree the character in the comics isn't all that spectacular, but he doesn't have to be eating fish, biting noses off, and cracking sex jokes to be a good character either........

 

[Kevin Roegele]

That's exactly what it is - people that either became Batman fans because of the Burton films or they're just Burton fans in general. They probably didn't read any Batman comics before the first film came out. Oh well, to each their own..........

Guys, please, you're embarassing yourselves. The 'I'm a real fan, you're not,' rhetoric is one of the most embarassing things fanboys do. Realise that Batman Begins is no more valid a Batman film than Batman Returns or Batman & Robin, you'd just like to think it is. It truth, the most faithful Batman movie is the 1966 film with Adam West, because it's exactly like the comics of the period.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

totally awsome post man.

Thanks, buddy.

 

[Bat Attack]

Batman Begins ***** (5 Stars)

Batman '89 *****(5 Stars)

Batman Returns *****(5 Stars)

Batman Forever ***(3 Stars)

Batman & Robin *(1 Star)