Justice League Real Talk - Where does the DCEU go from here? - Part 2

[Vaibow]

It's all about making money - they knock out WW2 (it's a definite $$), AM (it's already shot), SS2 (it's a gamble but it made money) - this is the next 3 years so 2019. So if they make money, all good. Nothing lost.

In mean time, prep for a new Batman trilogy to come out 2020 and start fresh. 2021 Superman, GL, Supergirl. Then go from there.

 

[Vaibow]

It's complete nonsense. Snyder isn't doing anything revolutionary in his film making other than having a decent eye for dynamic visuals, which frankly is still either hit or miss for a lot of people.

I was thinking today, there were moments in MOS and BvS that looked so gritty, realistic, like events were being captured on a cell phone, like really smart ways to film - but i thought about it and that tone it creates, it's too 'raw' to convey emotion and depth, in my opinion. And to go from one style of filming for action, to another, feels choppy. I almost feel like had certain shots of the MOS fights been captured by the Daily Planet Chopper or news teams, circling in Helicopters, and we see a large junk of it that way, how the rest of the world did, would have been perfect. It's almost like some scenes were a documentary and the rest a hollywood movie.

 

[DACrowe]

Gal is fine. She's not RDJ, Reeve or Jackman level though.

I actually think she is comparable to Reeve in this way: neither are great actors, but both are loved by fans as these superheroes. I think she will come to embody Wonder Woman for the next generation the way Reeve was Superman to the past several generations. She is not nearly as good an actor as Downey or Jackman. But neither is Reeve. And like Reeve, she is kind of personifying what people like about her character, which means money in the bank for at least several sequels if the studio does not do anything stupid.

 

[Vaibow]

I actually think she is comparable to Reeve in this way: neither are great actors, but both are loved by fans as these superheroes. I think she will come to embody Wonder Woman for the next generation the way Reeve was Superman to the past several generations. She is not nearly as good an actor as Downey or Jackman. But neither is Reeve. And like Reeve, she is kind of personifying what people like about her character, which means money in the bank for at least several sequels if the studio does not do anything stupid.

Reeve was classically trained and a fantastic actor - how else could he pull off 3 roles... you kidding me? He turned down so many roles he thought would be dud.. the lead male role in Pretty Woman, Total Recal..anyways..

 

[Vaibow]

It's complete nonsense. Snyder isn't doing anything revolutionary in his film making other than having a decent eye for dynamic visuals, which frankly is still either hit or miss for a lot of people.

I was thinking today, there were moments in MOS and BvS that looked so gritty, realistic, like events were being captured on a cell phone, like really smart ways to film - but i thought about it and that tone it creates, it's too 'raw' to convey emotion and depth, in my opinion. And to go from one style of filming for action, to another, feels choppy. I almost feel like had certain shots of the MOS fights been captured by the Daily Planet Chopper or news teams, circling in Helicopters, and we see a large junk of it that way, how the rest of the world did, would have been perfect. It's almost like some scenes were a documentary and the rest a hollywood movie.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

It's complete nonsense. Snyder isn't doing anything revolutionary in his film making other than having a decent eye for dynamic visuals, which frankly is still either hit or miss for a lot of people.

This whole "the film will be a masterpiece in a decades time" reminds me a lot of "you'll see, there is a heaven. You'll know when you die".

There's no way to prove or disprove it. So it's the final refuge of religious people/Snyderistas who have no other argument.

 

[DACrowe]

Reeve was classically trained and a fantastic actor - how else could he pull off 3 roles... you kidding me? He turned down so many roles he thought would be dud.. the lead male role in Pretty Woman, Total Recal..anyways..

No disrespect to the late great Christopher Reeve. But as much as I love him in Superman, I was very aware of his limits (and comparing him to roles taken by Arnold Schwarzenegger does not change that opinion).



My point is neither are in the league of a Downey or Jackman. But they cast just as long shadows in the right role for audiences and general imaginations.

 

[markjoedelonge]

No disrespect to the late great Christopher Reeve. But as much as I love him in Superman, I was very aware of his limits (and comparing him to roles taken by Arnold Schwarzenegger does not change that opinion).



My point is neither are in the league of a Downey or Jackman. But they cast just as long shadows in the right role for audiences and general imaginations.

Omg that clip!

 

[Lily Adler]

No, Don't (grins) the people.

 

[StormC]

Downey is a great actor, though as much as I love him and his work in the MCU, I feel like the original Iron Man and Civil War are the only times he’s displayed “great” acting since otherwise the role is mostly suited to fit him (maybe IM3, too).

 

[DerekLake]

People didn’t see JL because they hated BVS. It’s really that simple.

It really is that simple. And that the marketing for the film, and the film itself, weren’t/aren’t good enough to offset that bad taste. It was pretty much impossible for JL to do well as a sequel to BvS. The fact that the marketing, which focused heavily on Batman, Aquaman and Flash, didn’t save the film is the more troubling aspect for the Aquaman film. They will need to market him early, and in smarter ways, to get people to turn out for the film.

 

[Frodo]

Ultimately, the goal should be to place emphasis the individual heroes, their supporting casts, and their lives much more than placing emphasis on the fact they're all in the same universe. Easters eggs , build ups, and and team ups are meaningless to the GA if they don't even know or care about who Barry Allen is ,who he loves and cares about, and what he's fighting for.

Audiences became attached to Diana because of who she was, what she cared about, and her supporting cast, not because the Amazons protected mother boxes which also come into play with Darkseid, Cyborg, Aquaman, the green lantern core etc.

The fact that these characters all inhabit the same universe is the cherry on top. The audience knows they're all connected. Now they have to get the audience to care about these versions of the characters and their supporting casts .

Once they do that , then WB can focus on making more connections in the universe and making another crossover event film.

 

[DerekLake]

Ultimately, the goal should be to place emphasis the individual heroes, their supporting casts, and their lives much more than placing emphasis on the fact they're all in the same universe. Easters eggs , build ups, and and team ups are meaningless to the GA if they don't even know or care about who Barry Allen is ,who he loves and cares about, and what he's fighting for.

Audiences became attached to Diana because of who she was, what she cared about, and her supporting cast, not because the Amazons protected mother boxes which also come into play with Darkseid, Cyborg, Aquaman, the green lantern core etc.

The fact that these characters all inhabit the same universe is the cherry on top. The audience knows they're all connected. Now they have to get the audience to care about these versions of the characters and their supporting casts .

Once they do that , then WB can focus on making more connections in the universe and making another crossover event film.

I agree. But those ties can be as loose as they want. The key is having creative peoole at the top who seed in those connections without really limiting the characters. Such people would also have planned out which characters to adapt and where this all leads, so it wouldn’t really be an either/or thing. WB is currently not competent enough to do that, so if they don’t change then yes, they should just ignore the shared universe. But I’m convinced that shared universe or no, they should be character-focused either way.

 

[Rorschach2012]

No disrespect to the late great Christopher Reeve. But as much as I love him in Superman, I was very aware of his limits (and comparing him to roles taken by Arnold Schwarzenegger does not change that opinion).



My point is neither are in the league of a Downey or Jackman. But they cast just as long shadows in the right role for audiences and general imaginations.

I pretty much agree with everything you're saying. While Gadot and Reeve may not technically be as good at acting, they're still just as perfect for their roles.

It's like Nirvana vs Rush. Kurt Cobain was technically worse at his instrument than the guys in Rush, but he made way more of an impact, and was honestly way better despite playing far simpler music.

I'm not saying Gadot and Reeve made more of an impact than RDJ and Jackman, just saying that technical skill isn't everything when it comes to playing a superhero or playing rock n' roll.

 

[GreenKToo]

I'm sure WB will blame the Characters for the failure of JL instead of putting the blame where it belongs, ie, bad film making, studio interference, the CG, score, etc.

WW proves that if you will make a really good film, people will come.
He11, you could make a plastic man film, and as long as it was well made with a really good director, actors, etc, it would make money.
Is it that hard to understand? really? maybe i'm missing something.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I pretty much agree with everything you're saying. While Gadot and Reeve may not technically be as good at acting, they're still just as perfect for their roles.

It's like Nirvana vs Rush. Kurt Cobain was technically worse at his instrument than the guys in Rush, but he made way more of an impact, and was honestly way better despite playing far simpler music.

I'm not saying Gadot and Reeve made more of an impact than RDJ and Jackman, just saying that technical skill isn't everything when it comes to playing a superhero or playing rock n' roll.

Excuse me. Rush was WAAAAAYYYYY more influential than Nirvana, dammit!



At least to me.





Living in the limelight, the universal dream...

 

[kguillou]

It would be nice if we could have a series of films that technically share a universe but still have distinct unique styles to them. I think thats the only downside to Marvel's model, everything has to have a uniform look and vibe to it so that it remains consistent. As a result, people like Edgar Wright cant go too crazy with their ideas and it. Seeing his Antman movie wouldve been interesting, to say the least.

 

[Predator jp]

even in comics Marvel has more uniform vibe than DC.

 

[Frodo]

I agree. But those ties can be as loose as they want. The key is having creative peoole at the top who seed in those connections without really limiting the characters. Such people would also have planned out which characters to adapt and where this all leads, so it wouldn’t really be an either/or thing. WB is currently not competent enough to do that, so if they don’t change then yes, they should just ignore the shared universe. But I’m convinced that shared universe or no, they should be character-focused either way.

This is where I would disagree in terms of WB moving toward something. At this point, I really don't think its necessary to move toward an end point the way Marvel does with each of their films. Ultimately that can restrain the filmmakers involved into telling the stories they want to tell, because they're setting stuff up for some other film which may or may not become reality down the line.

Ongoing story arcs within the characters individual journey's is fine, but the team or crossover event films should be one offs imo as opposed to solo films acting as building blocks toward some larger team up film several years down the line. It wouldn't have to be about ignoring the shared universe because its taken for granted they're in the same universe anyway.

There's really no need to keep reminding or emphasizing that every film is in the same universe to the audience at this point . They can now afford to just tell the stories they want to tell without filmmakers being bound to the concept of a TBA team up or crossover film in a decade down the line.

 

[007]

Reeve was classically trained and a fantastic actor - how else could he pull off 3 roles... you kidding me? He turned down so many roles he thought would be dud.. the lead male role in Pretty Woman, Total Recal..anyways..

Reeve was no kwaton, bale, affleck, as a superhero and his filmography is woeful

 

[Vaibow]

He was classically trained and he is more suited to certain roles, that's for sure, stage shows to be exact, but you can't say he didn't understand the need and reasoning for the alter ego's.. how ever, my joke at the end about pretty woman and total recall in particular fell a bit flat.

 

[IcedOver]

I'm surprised that they had Eisenberg's Lex in the post-credits scene. He was mostly disliked by the moviegoing public (although the fault was more in his awful dialogue than his performance). It shows that they're at least intending to adhere to the Snyder iteration of these characters, even if Affleck is probably moving on, and if Snyder most likely will never direct another DCEU movie.

 

[Romannen]

It's complete nonsense. Snyder isn't doing anything revolutionary in his film making other than having a decent eye for dynamic visuals, which frankly is still either hit or miss for a lot of people.

He also mentions that Nolan said that if Watchmen came out now instead of 2009 it would have been a huge success. Which is why he handpicked Snyder for MoS.

The Nolan quote:
http://www.squareeyed.tv/2016/03/12/christopher-nolan-told-zack-snyder-he-made-watchmen-too-early/

 

[Patchwork Man]

It's like Nirvana vs Rush. Kurt Cobain was technically worse at his instrument than the guys in Rush, but he made way more of an impact, and was honestly way better despite playing far simpler music.

"Technically"? How about adding "actually" and "indisputably"?) Kurt was not a good guitarist. The three men who are Rush are better than all of the guys in Nirvana or Foo Fighters (and Dave will have no problem tell you that). Rush has probably inspired more musicians to pick up the bass guitar or a pair of sticks than any other rock band.

 

[Heretic]

It would be nice if we could have a series of films that technically share a universe but still have distinct unique styles to them. I think thats the only downside to Marvel's model, everything has to have a uniform look and vibe to it so that it remains consistent. As a result, people like Edgar Wright cant go too crazy with their ideas and it. Seeing his Antman movie wouldve been interesting, to say the least.

Yep.

I live on Earth.
Kim Kardashian lives on Earth
A Syrian child trying to escape the war lives on Earth.

We have REAL WORLD examples of people sharing the same "universe" who live wildly different lives in wildly different surroundings.

So...why does every movie in a cinematic universe have to feel so similar?

I can very easily accept that Metropolis is a "city of tomorrow" with Gotham being crime infested etc. Life in Gotham should be VERY different from life in Metropolis. I WANT it to look and feel radically different.