Reality Check(Budget vs. Profit)

[Theweepeople]

Time to set the record straight. Some movie franchises have been been destroyed and others have flourished due to the success of one epic sequel. What ultimately determines whether a movie in a franchise is considered a financial success or failure is the total domestic gross in regard to budget. After a movie has made all it's money domestically the movie company's accounting department calculates out the profit% of the budget. This # is calculated first by taking the total domestic gross of the film and subtracting it from the bugdet. The resulting # is then divided by the budget. Here is an example:


Total gross of Black Hawk Down approximately 109,000,000
Budget of Black Hawk Down 92 million

Total gross-Budget=17million dollar profit

17/92= 0.185 multiplied times 100=18.5%=profit% of the budget.

The movie Black Hawk Down was not a flop however statistics have shown of the years that most movies considered to be successful have a profit% much greater than 10% of the budget. At best this movie had moderate financial success. At worst it was a huge disappointment. If this movie was a part of a franchise there would be a slim chance the franchise would be continued.

Here are examples of movie franchises that were hurt or destroyed by a sequel with a low dometsic profit% of the budget. I will only show the profit percentages for now. If you don't trust me then calculate it out for yourself.

Lethal Weapon 4 -7% Even though more Lethal weapon movies are completely unnecessary, Warner Bros. stated that they had plans to make more movies had LW4 been successful. Maybe movies 5-8 would have been about the adventures of Butters and Leo Gets.

Star Trek 10 -28% Sucks to be a star trek fan right now(which I am).

The World is not enough -5.9% It's no coincidence that Pierce only did one more James Bond movie after this disaster.

Van Helsing -25% Yes. This was supposed to be the beginning of a triology. So much for Worldwide gross and DVD sales giving Universal any reason to continue this mess.

Batman and Robin -14% This piece of crap forced Warner Brother's to remake the Batman franchise and taints Joel Shumacker's career.

Blade Trinity -20% I'm not much of a Blade fan. However, the 2 previous blade films were epic financially in comparison to this one.

Superman IV -5% As far as Waner brothers and Singer are concerned this movie never happened(along with Superman 3).

Matrix Revolutions -7% The failure of this movie proved that audiences these days are way too sophisticated to fail in love with high bugdet action flicks that are either too confusing or mindless.

Alien Resurrection -32% First time I ever considered walking out of during a movie.

Predator 2 NA I looked everywhere and could not find the bugdet. However I am convinced it is a failure because it only made 30,000,000 in the US and made 50% less than the original movie which probably cost less.

Judge Dredd -62 This was also, supposed to be a franchise. Investing 90million dollars into a movie that stars an actor who has won the most razzie awards is not a good venture.

Here are examples of movies in franchises that had favorable profit percentages of their budgets.


Star Wars Revenge of the Sith 236% Budget 113 million

Batman 617% Budget 35 million

Ghostbusters 663% Budget 30 million

The Matrix 171% Budget 63 million

Lord of the Rings I 237% Budget 93 million

Lord of the Rings II 261% Budget 94 million

Lord of the Rings III 301% Budget 94 million

Ice Age 198% Budget 59 million

Ice Age 2 141% Buget 80 million

Pirates of the Carribean 117% Budget 140 million

Spider Man 191% Budget 139 million(This was a great example of how a comic book franchise can be overwhelmingly successful when a director is given artistic freedom and a good budget).

Spider Man 2 87% Budget 374 million

Harry Potter I 154% Budget 125 million

Harry Potter II 162% Budget 100 million

Harry Potter III 92.3% Budget 130 million

X-Men 109% Budget 75 million

X-Men 2 95% Budget 110 million

Shrek 347% Budget 60 million

Shrek 2 530% Budget 530 million

Fantastic Four 55% Budget 100 million(Sorry DC fans but, Carp_Man was right about FF being more successful financialy than Batman Begins based on these percentages.)

Batman Begins(My favorite CBM) 37% Budget 150 million(This movie may not have been as successful as FF but, I think this movie helped the future of the Batman Franchise more than the future of FF and had a far greater impact on the future of Comic book movies. Also, it is unfortunate that Fox appears to not have learned that rushing these action movies into production is a mistake.

Blade 56% Budget 45 million(I probably would not be posting this message if this movie had not been made)

Blade 2 54% Budget 54 million


Alien vs. Predator 33% Budget 60 million(Is it just me or do any movies involving Aliens and Predators keep getting more stupid. I predict the second movie in this franchise flops and puts a nail in the coffin to Aliens and Predator. Stupid Fox.

Now for the profit percentage prediction of X-Men 3!!!!!!!



Total Gross should be 230-235 million.

Budget is 210 million.


Profit%=11.9% if the movie makes 235 million

Profit%=9.52% if the movie makes 230 million

Math may be one of my weakest subjects however it is easy to understand that this is not an impressive profit percentage of budget for any movie company to have. Also, this does not include the money that Marvel gets from the final domestic gross of the film. Most comic book fans may not realize it now but, this film may have killed any chance that Fox makes more X-Men movies. I wish Fox good luck with their spin offs but, these numbers tell me they lost a huge percentage of their fan base who they were hoping to make money off of in the future.


From a domestic profit perspective there are 3 types of movies in Hollywood. Those that are financial success. Those that break even financialy and those that are financial flops. X-Men 3 is not a flop but, it is not much of a success when in comparison to King Kong(profit%=5, budget 207 million). Considering the way X-Men 3 opened it should have broken 300 million or at the very least got close. This movie is at the very least a huge disappoint for Fox, hurts their reputation, and it makes Tom Rothman look like an idiot(He said this movie would be on par with Return of the King!!!! Comparing profit %s is a joke.) considering everything that has happened since Singer left for Superman Returns.

There is so much at stake when these types of films are not taken seriously by the companys that own them. When a movie company such as Fox spends over 200 million on a film and the end product is crap a chain reaction results. Fans realize they got cheated out of their money. A studio starts to lose it's reputation. Creative filmakers and writers go elsewhere to studios who support artistic freedom. Next a studio loses its sponsors and the company stock takes a hit. The final outcome can be bankruptcy, though I am sure this won't happen to Fox.


The best thing I can say about X-Men 3 is that Singer not being involved could be a blessing in disguise. Had Singer not left we would not know everything we know about Tom Rothman(Thanks to that Ain't It Cool news script review that came last year). We all know who to direct are anger at whenever, Fox makes a horrible movie. Hopefully, Fox will begin to feel the pressure and fire Tom Rothman. In 10 years another a better studio will be starting this franchise over and get it right from the beginning.

For what it's worth I have seen worst comic book movies than X-Men 3 and Ratner should get some credit for making an average X-Men movie considering the absurd schedule. However, as a fan of action and science fiction movies I thought this movie was supposed to be epic and more sophisticated.

Instead of getting mad at each other over whether we liked this movie or not shouldn't we all be directing are anger at Fox. We all can agree that this movie should have been better. Also, I don't understand why the Marvel and DC fanboys keep on bashing each other. I prefer Marvel comics and movies over DC but, I want all comic book movies to succeed as long as movie companies take them and their fans seriously.

 

[Avalanche]

I see what you're saying, and in comparison to other films, X3 does have a weak profit margin domestically.

However, in terms of true profit, international box office need to be taken into account (bringing the profit around 100%) and after that DVD sales. X3 will still make a lot of money, even if domestically the percentage figure is low.

 

[Theweepeople]

I agree with you that this film will make a lot of money overall( Even Drudge Dred made decent money overseas to offset domestic gross. Batman and Robin made 130,000,000 overseas). However, it is still a disappointing to Fox because now they are having second thoughts about making spin offs. A movies failure to do well domestically has a huge impact on how well it does internationally, how much money is made from DVD sales, and whether sequels will be made. When a movie company continues to make average to bad sequels in a franchise eventually fans will spend their money elsewhere and the franchise dies. Just look at what happened to the Matrix, original Batman, and Aliens franchises.

 

[Pizzaboy1138]

Matrix Revolutions -7% The failure of this movie proved that audiences these days are way too sophisticated to fail in love with high bugdet action flicks that are either too confusing or mindless.

Matrix Revolutions was neither confusing, nor mindless.
Some of the viewers just didn't get the concept that there isn't just black or white, but something in between, that giving up doesn't have to be losing and that a hero doesn't have to live to change the world.
The audience's reaction to some of the scenes, e.g. laughter when Trinity dies, just shows how immature even older viewers can be, or how desperately they try to deny their own mortality.

 

[Theweepeople]

"Matrix Revolutions was neither confusing, nor mindless.
Some of the viewers just didn't get the concept that there isn't just black or white, but something in between, that giving up doesn't have to be losing and that a hero doesn't have to live to change the world.
The audience's reaction to some of the scenes, e.g. laughter when Trinity dies, just shows how immature even older viewers can be, or how desperately they try to deny their own mortality."

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Overall I did not find Matrix revolutions as a mindless film. However, there were things that confused me. For Instance the part where Trinity and Neo were able to avoid the defense systems of the Matrix by flying their electromagnetic ship into the clouds. Why didn't anyone at Zion think of that idea before? Are you trying to convince me that with all the advanced technology the Robots had they weren't capable of tracking the ship or even chasing it into the clouds?

 

[Pizzaboy1138]

Are you trying to convince me that with all the advanced technology the Robots had they weren't capable of tracking the ship or even chasing it into the clouds?

The machines are pure logic. They couldn't think of something as "stupid" as going up there and risking everything for a very slim chance.
That's the difference between humans and machines, it's the center of the movie.

 

[Theweepeople]

"The machines are pure logic. They couldn't think of something as "stupid" as going up there and risking everything for a very slim chance.
That's the difference between humans and machines, it's the center of the movie."

Interesting theory. I will at least give you that. However, after realizing stupid it was for Neo and Trinity to take the ship up in the clouds I thought the most logical thing for the machinces to do was to shoot them down.

 

[Pizzaboy1138]

the most logical thing for the machinces to do was to shoot them down.

They needed Neo, and knew it. Otherwise they wouldn't have negotiated in the end.

 

[Theweepeople]

"They needed Neo, and knew it. Otherwise they wouldn't have negotiated in the end."


If that was true then why did the machines defense systems fire at the ship the moment they saw it.

 

[Pizzaboy1138]

If that was true then why did the machines defense systems fire at the ship the moment they saw it.

Because it was programmed and not processed in realtime.

 

[Farren]

hmmm, interesting.

Thanks for the stats.

 

[chaseter]

I see what you're saying, and in comparison to other films, X3 does have a weak profit margin domestically.

However, in terms of true profit, international box office need to be taken into account (bringing the profit around 100%) and after that DVD sales. X3 will still make a lot of money, even if domestically the percentage figure is low.

Agreed...he is also probably not throwing into account other merchandise that X3 had but Batman, Spider-Man, etc...had...action figures for example. Anywho...X3 is still making money and not even on DVD yet.

 

[Theweepeople]

"Because it was programmed and not processed in realtime."


Didn't think of that. Like I said before the movie was not mindless. If this was true then it should have been explained or there should have been a better explaination for why the machines did not shoot them down immediately. Either way the Matrix Revolutions was a disappointment for me and should have been developed better.

 

[Pizzaboy1138]

Either way the Matrix Revolutions was a disappointment for me and should have been developed better.

No easy way out - for me this end was how it should have been.
Peace is never a static thing.

You can never explain everything in movies, otherwise they'd have a running time of 4 hours, at least.
It can be a lot of fun to discuss movies, after all. What one person can't explain, another one can.

Nitpicking is no necessity.

Where did Meg Ryan's character in "You've got mail" put her keys when she left the house to go and find out about her internet-love at the end of the movie?

 

[antariksh]

Time to set the record straight. Some movie franchises have been been destroyed and others have flourished due to the success of one epic sequel. What ultimately determines whether a movie in a franchise is considered a financial success or failure is the total domestic gross in regard to budget. After a movie has made all it's money domestically the movie company's accounting department calculates out the profit% of the budget. This # is calculated first by taking the total domestic gross of the film and subtracting it from the bugdet. The resulting # is then divided by the budget. Here is an example:


Total gross of Black Hawk Down approximately 109,000,000
Budget of Black Hawk Down 92 million

Total gross-Budget=17million dollar profit

17/92= 0.185 multiplied times 100=18.5%=profit% of the budget.

The movie Black Hawk Down was not a flop however statistics have shown of the years that most movies considered to be successful have a profit% much greater than 10% of the budget. At best this movie had moderate financial success. At worst it was a huge disappointment. If this movie was a part of a franchise there would be a slim chance the franchise would be continued.

Here are examples of movie franchises that were hurt or destroyed by a sequel with a low dometsic profit% of the budget. I will only show the profit percentages for now. If you don't trust me then calculate it out for yourself.

Lethal Weapon 4 -7% Even though more Lethal weapon movies are completely unnecessary, Warner Bros. stated that they had plans to make more movies had LW4 been successful. Maybe movies 5-8 would have been about the adventures of Butters and Leo Gets.

Star Trek 10 -28% Sucks to be a star trek fan right now(which I am).

The World is not enough -5.9% It's no coincidence that Pierce only did one more James Bond movie after this disaster.

Van Helsing -25% Yes. This was supposed to be the beginning of a triology. So much for Worldwide gross and DVD sales giving Universal any reason to continue this mess.

Batman and Robin -14% This piece of crap forced Warner Brother's to remake the Batman franchise and taints Joel Shumacker's career.

Blade Trinity -20% I'm not much of a Blade fan. However, the 2 previous blade films were epic financially in comparison to this one.

Superman IV -5% As far as Waner brothers and Singer are concerned this movie never happened(along with Superman 3).

Matrix Revolutions -7% The failure of this movie proved that audiences these days are way too sophisticated to fail in love with high bugdet action flicks that are either too confusing or mindless.

Alien Resurrection -32% First time I ever considered walking out of during a movie.

Predator 2 NA I looked everywhere and could not find the bugdet. However I am convinced it is a failure because it only made 30,000,000 in the US and made 50% less than the original movie which probably cost less.

Judge Dredd -62 This was also, supposed to be a franchise. Investing 90million dollars into a movie that stars an actor who has won the most razzie awards is not a good venture.

Here are examples of movies in franchises that had favorable profit percentages of their budgets.


Star Wars Revenge of the Sith 236% Budget 113 million

Batman 617% Budget 35 million

Ghostbusters 663% Budget 30 million

The Matrix 171% Budget 63 million

Lord of the Rings I 237% Budget 93 million

Lord of the Rings II 261% Budget 94 million

Lord of the Rings III 301% Budget 94 million

Ice Age 198% Budget 59 million

Ice Age 2 141% Buget 80 million

Pirates of the Carribean 117% Budget 140 million

Spider Man 191% Budget 139 million(This was a great example of how a comic book franchise can be overwhelmingly successful when a director is given artistic freedom and a good budget).

Spider Man 2 87% Budget 374 million

Harry Potter I 154% Budget 125 million

Harry Potter II 162% Budget 100 million

Harry Potter III 92.3% Budget 130 million

X-Men 109% Budget 75 million

X-Men 2 95% Budget 110 million

Shrek 347% Budget 60 million

Shrek 2 530% Budget 530 million

Fantastic Four 55% Budget 100 million(Sorry DC fans but, Carp_Man was right about FF being more successful financialy than Batman Begins based on these percentages.)

Batman Begins(My favorite CBM) 37% Budget 150 million(This movie may not have been as successful as FF but, I think this movie helped the future of the Batman Franchise more than the future of FF and had a far greater impact on the future of Comic book movies. Also, it is unfortunate that Fox appears to not have learned that rushing these action movies into production is a mistake.

Blade 56% Budget 45 million(I probably would not be posting this message if this movie had not been made)

Blade 2 54% Budget 54 million


Alien vs. Predator 33% Budget 60 million(Is it just me or do any movies involving Aliens and Predators keep getting more stupid. I predict the second movie in this franchise flops and puts a nail in the coffin to Aliens and Predator. Stupid Fox.

Now for the profit percentage prediction of X-Men 3!!!!!!!



Total Gross should be 230-235 million.

Budget is 210 million.


Profit%=11.9% if the movie makes 235 million

Profit%=9.52% if the movie makes 230 million

Math may be one of my weakest subjects however it is easy to understand that this is not an impressive profit percentage of budget for any movie company to have. Also, this does not include the money that Marvel gets from the final domestic gross of the film. Most comic book fans may not realize it now but, this film may have killed any chance that Fox makes more X-Men movies. I wish Fox good luck with their spin offs but, these numbers tell me they lost a huge percentage of their fan base who they were hoping to make money off of in the future.


From a domestic profit perspective there are 3 types of movies in Hollywood. Those that are financial success. Those that break even financialy and those that are financial flops. X-Men 3 is not a flop but, it is not much of a success when in comparison to King Kong(profit%=5, budget 207 million). Considering the way X-Men 3 opened it should have broken 300 million or at the very least got close. This movie is at the very least a huge disappoint for Fox, hurts their reputation, and it makes Tom Rothman look like an idiot(He said this movie would be on par with Return of the King!!!! Comparing profit %s is a joke.) considering everything that has happened since Singer left for Superman Returns.

There is so much at stake when these types of films are not taken seriously by the companys that own them. When a movie company such as Fox spends over 200 million on a film and the end product is crap a chain reaction results. Fans realize they got cheated out of their money. A studio starts to lose it's reputation. Creative filmakers and writers go elsewhere to studios who support artistic freedom. Next a studio loses its sponsors and the company stock takes a hit. The final outcome can be bankruptcy, though I am sure this won't happen to Fox.


The best thing I can say about X-Men 3 is that Singer not being involved could be a blessing in disguise. Had Singer not left we would not know everything we know about Tom Rothman(Thanks to that Ain't It Cool news script review that came last year). We all know who to direct are anger at whenever, Fox makes a horrible movie. Hopefully, Fox will begin to feel the pressure and fire Tom Rothman. In 10 years another a better studio will be starting this franchise over and get it right from the beginning.

For what it's worth I have seen worst comic book movies than X-Men 3 and Ratner should get some credit for making an average X-Men movie considering the absurd schedule. However, as a fan of action and science fiction movies I thought this movie was supposed to be epic and more sophisticated.

Instead of getting mad at each other over whether we liked this movie or not shouldn't we all be directing are anger at Fox. We all can agree that this movie should have been better. Also, I don't understand why the Marvel and DC fanboys keep on bashing each other. I prefer Marvel comics and movies over DC but, I want all comic book movies to succeed as long as movie companies take them and their fans seriously.

listen that $210 million budget is WRONG!!!
the budget is $165. Now do the math.

 

[antariksh]

I agree with you that this film will make a lot of money overall( Even Drudge Dred made decent money overseas to offset domestic gross. Batman and Robin made 130,000,000 overseas). However, it is still a disappointing to Fox because now they are having second thoughts about making spin offs. A movies failure to do well domestically has a huge impact on how well it does internationally, how much money is made from DVD sales, and whether sequels will be made. When a movie company continues to make average to bad sequels in a franchise eventually fans will spend their money elsewhere and the franchise dies. Just look at what happened to the Matrix, original Batman, and Aliens franchises.

So u mean XMEN franchise is officially OVER!!!

WOW well the franchise was already WEAK (boxoffice) to begin with so what the hell

What a sad ending for xmen fans.

 

[Theweepeople]

"Agreed...he is also probably not throwing into account other merchandise that X3 had but Batman, Spider-Man, etc...had...action figures for example. Anywho...X3 is still making money and not even on DVD yet"


Let's talk about. Merchandise. Practically every successful and unsuccessful action movie can make a decent amount of money off of merchandise. Tron make a crap load of money of Light Cycle toys, action figures, and video games. Even horror movies such as Hellraiser have made money off of merchandise(I kid you not that I have seen Hellraiser and leprechaun action figures.). However, movies in franchises that struggle to make money domestically, usually detroy any chance that sequels will be made regardless of how much money is made through merchandise. What happened to Robocop 4 (This franchise also made a lot of money through merchandise).

 

[BMM]

listen that $210 million budget is WRONG!!!
the budget is $165. Now do the math.

The Last Stand's budget is listed as $210 million dollars, which I'm willing to bet is correct (renegotiating contracts and rushing large amounts of effects shots to meet an incredibly tight deadline requires copious amounts of money, not to mention other costs of preparing the movie by said deadline). If you want to subtract numbers from the budget simply because you don't find it to better serve your argument, fine. Then do so for not only X-Men and X2, but every single other movie featured in the aforementioned list. According to your reduction of 45 million dollars from The Last Stand (for whatever reason), X2's budget is now only 65 million dollars and X-Men's budget is now 30 million dollars.

 

[Theweepeople]

"listen that $210 million budget is WRONG!!!
the budget is $165. Now do the math."

Based on what? Your opinion. So box office mojo is lying to us about the budget? In interviews some of the cast of X-Men 3 admitted the film's budget is over 200 million so no I won't do the math.

 

[Theweepeople]

"So u mean XMEN franchise is officially OVER!!!

WOW well the franchise was already WEAK (boxoffice) to begin with so what the hell

What a sad ending for xmen fans."

Do you understand basic math? X-Men 1 and 2 had profit percentages of their budgets above 90%. Those movies were huge financial successes compared to X-Men 3. This franchise could have easily resulted in 9 movies considering all the stories writers have to choose from. Too bad Fox likes to get rid of Gooses that lay golden eggs.

 

[Theweepeople]

"The Last Stand's budget is listed as $210 million dollars, which I'm willing to bet is correct (renegotiating contracts and rushing large amounts of effects shots to meet an incredibly tight deadline requires copious amounts of money, not to mention other costs of preparing the movie by said deadline). If you want to subtract numbers from the budget simply because you don't find it to better serve your argument, fine. Then do so for not only X-Men and X2, but every single other movie featured in the aforementioned list. According to your reduction of 45 million dollars from The Last Stand (for whatever reason), X2's budget is now only 65 million dollars and X-Men's budget is now 30 million dollars."

Could not have said it any better. By the way is Antariksh a teenager or something. He appears to lack basic reasoning and logic skills.

 

[Theweepeople]

"No easy way out - for me this end was how it should have been.
Peace is never a static thing."

I did not say the ending of the movie was bad.

"You can never explain everything in movies, otherwise they'd have a running time of 4 hours, at least.
It can be a lot of fun to discuss movies, after all. What one person can't explain, another one can."

Agreed. However, there are some plot elements were explainations are crucial to keeping the audiences interested in what is taking place. I thought this was a plot element that needed an explanation.

"Nitpicking is no necessity."

I honestly did not think I was nitpicking.

"Where did Meg Ryan's character in "You've got mail" put her keys when she left the house to go and find out about her internet-love at the end of the movie?"

You are comparing apples to oranges buddy. Now you are just being silly.

 

[gambitfire]

Do you understand basic math? X-Men 1 and 2 had profit percentages of their budgets above 90%. Those movies were huge financial successes compared to X-Men 3. This franchise could have easily resulted in 9 movies considering all the stories writers have to choose from. Too bad Fox likes to get rid of Gooses that lay golden eggs.

that is so true we'r left with Storm and Wolverine leading 3 kids who don't have a big fanbase and will only fall in their shadows .

Im starting a thread about this

 

[crappymovie]

Do you understand basic math? X-Men 1 and 2 had profit percentages of their budgets above 90%. Those movies were huge financial successes compared to X-Men 3. This franchise could have easily resulted in 9 movies considering all the stories writers have to choose from. Too bad Fox likes to get rid of Gooses that lay golden eggs.

Profit, is profit. X2 was more profitable, using ANY standard you'd like. X3 is still profitable....just not as much as the previous entries in the trilogy. And it could've been....

 

[crappymovie]

And, for those who keep citing the great opening weekend as a testament to the film's "success", I suppose none of that is a direct result of viewers liking X2 or X1...I'm happy the film had a huge opening weekend, but I highly doubt Fox's marketing was THAT good.