Gotham Refining Gotham

Discussion in 'Past DC TV Series' started by fan4stic, May 4, 2020.

  1. fan4stic Registered

    Oct 25, 2017
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    I don't hate the show, I watched it from Pilot to Finale, but I think the show was fairly messy. So, here is a thread to not only put out a refined pitch of the season's stories, but also ask what you'd do differently?

    While this isn't going to be an outright total rewrite of the show (despite the problems I know it has, for the most part I think the stuff is does strongly, is stronger than other DC TV shows), it's more of a refining of ideas that the show has and adding more character building to it. It's not total scripting, but parceling out of ideas. Here are the ideas that God blessed me with:

    SEASON 1

    Bruce sees a bat in the finale as the cliffhanger. His arc is not depending on those around him for their help.

    Jim becomes imbittered about Gotham as a city.

    Bullock rediscovers his desire to help people.

    Selina, as a flipside to Bruce, starts to recognize her caring about people and in some ways see it as a weakness.

    Alfred begins to realize that he can't control Bruce.

    This is mainly an out of left field idea, one I'd be comfortable not doing and could see why the show wouldn't in wanting to maintain name recognition with Oswald Cobblepot character: Oswald's name isn't Cobblepot, but something else. He was raised by his mom with no knowledge of his dad. His family lineage on his dad's side isn't something that'd be revealed until season 2, which is Cobblepot. But again, this is just an idea.

    By the same measure, Ed could also explain that he changed his real name from Nashton to Nygma, feeling it suited him more and he hated his family anyway.

    Have Basil Karlo be a villain of the week in place of the villain in the episode Arkham. Have Basil Karlo be an accomplished actor whose face was damaged in a car accident. Desperate to retake his roles as an actor after being fired, he kills people for the mob using an experimental face cream that he can use to make himself look like other people and his acting abilities to get close to them. The episode ends with him being shot and the cream leaking into his blood stream, though not killing him, but making him convulse and kept in a medically induced coma to keep him from being in physical pain. Roland Dagget being the middle man between the mob and Basil that hired him to do this.

    The Goat episode would now be about the foundation of the Ventriloquist and Scarface. The first born, introverted, son of one of Gotham's mob families, Arnold Wesker (preferably played as an adult by Nate Corddry), is someone who is put down by his dad and comforted by his mom. As a child he used his ventriloquism to voice is emotions and feelings. His mom was murdered in front of him as a child in a mob hit while he was performing his ventriloquism act for her. This was one of Bullock's earliest cases. In trying to catch the assassin his partner was hurt badly and nearly killed and another rookie died. The case was swept under the rug by Wesker's dad, as the assassination was done as a warning against Wesker's dad for him transporting guns into the city without Falcone's approval and he did it to avoid being caught for his dealings. Arnold Wesker grew more introverted and began to not speak to anyone, except through his puppet, Scarface, which he carved as a reference to his mom's favorite movie and was performing that for her when she was shot. The main plot begins when the same assassin begins killing again in Gotham and Jim refuses to drop it when Bullock tells him to. At the end of the episode, Arnold Wesker snaps and beats his dad's head in with his scarface dummy, killing him, for not avenging his mom's killing.

    Make Richard Sionis him a mobster, running an underground fighting ring, where there's a deformed wrestler named Waylon Jones, nicknamed Killer Croc. Croc at this point has basically a harsh skin condition. Set up Richard Sionis' son, after Richard is killed in the episode, at the funeral.

    Seed a different kind of Ivy, more science child prodigy, whose mom is killed by her dad and buried in their rose garden.

    Have Harvey Dent be younger, but still a few years older than Bruce. He could play as a more older brother type figure to him. Expand on Bruce's supporting cast along with that, like Tommy Elliot. Maybe Dent's abusive dad can be a storyline. He could be a Gotham judge, who his mom eventually kills after one too many games of a coin toss, forcing young Harvey to choose which it would land on in regards to whether or not his mom would be beaten, it being a 2 headed coin. The blood spray from the gunshot, splattering on one half of the coin, which Harvey keeps, and half of Harvey's face. Though the kill wasn't in self defense, Jim, compromising, doesn't turn the evidence over to the police and lets her go.

    No Ed split personality thing. Though have him become more aggressive and angry at his situations. I don't think having Kringle is a bad idea, with where it leads in season 1.

    I think keeping Jerome a little more vague in his past can play too.

    I'm not against the idea of not keeping Barbara Kean as the doting girlfriend, but I think take it a little more as a cold blooded approach, to the point where she's more detached and amoral, instead of straight villain. No Montoya story for her. She's kidnapped by Falcone and feels troubled, unsafe and angry at her own place, almost like PTSD and leaves. Her arc concludes when she's kidnapped, by someone called the Moth, who Jim shoots and she brutally finishes off in a fit of rage. Moth being a hitman, a single dad with a son, who feeds off of the mob-run Gotham, and with Jim Gordon threatening that, seeks to punish him for it, into submission.

    This season still ends very similarly.

    SEASON 2

    Alfred starts to not try to stop Bruce in his mission.

    Bruce becomes more ruthless over the season.

    Jim has the same arc as in the season.

    We reveal that Leslie Thompkins knew Bruce's dad and that he was a mentor for her when she was training to be a doctor and Leslie does start talking with Bruce to try and help him out emotionally, though he mostly stonewalls her.

    Selina finds she starts to care about those around her and struggles with her perceived weakness and her desire to detach.

    Bullock begins to get more attention for his heroic deeds and is unsure in how to do deal with it.

    Ivy gets more frustrated at feeling looked down on by everyone.

    Penguin, almost at first, feels the monotony of a simple victory, and after his mom is killed questions the point of being the king of gotham. His dad arc lasts about 3 episodes, not 2. His dad's dark secret being that he has intense rage issues, like Oswald, and when he was a young man killed someone in a fit of rage. Since then he's sought to avoid that by wanting his family to be respectable. After this, Penguin begins desire to make himself seem like a legitimate citizen to the public.

    Have a slightly different set of villains in the breakout: Jerome, Barbara Kean, and lesser tier villains like Crazy Quilt or something. Sparce them out more over the first half of the season. Don't have Jerome die. Maybe he's the one gets put in a coma instead of Barbara Kean.

    Though the breakout is no longer controlled, but more manipulated. They never meet the one who broke them out, but are given intel through Tabitha, still a presence in this season.

    Barbara Kean, in this version no longer an outright psycho who wants to punish Jim and Leslie, in her own mind, she's bloodthirsty for the lives of criminals, and seeks to hunt down some of those who escaped from Arkham with her, offering assistance to Jim in some ways, also wanting to try and get Jim to see things her way. She gathers pointers from Tabitha, who is intrigued by her traumatic past driving her, seeking to empower her with the lessons she has, the pursuit of destruction of evil. Barbara is arrested in the middle of the season still and has her mind messed with by Strange. Faking being docile to be set free, Strange releases her. Barbara, angered at feeling powerless in her life, goes to Tabitha still, feeling like she has nowhere else to go.

    I think tone down the Bridgette backstory. More like her family's controlling, less than abusive. They're still arsonists for hire, but they're not over the top. Someone whose angry that her life is so controlled, feeling claustrophobic at the containment, a flame under a glass, as she would describe it, and wants to be free from their control, to be adventuress, in the midst of her being a thrill seeker, think of her as a twisted disney princess. When she's given the opportunity to help them in a job, she quickly takes it, feeling excitement at starting the fire and even nearly being burned badly herself, and when they lock her in her room again, she feels suffocated and has a panic attack at the claustrophobia and escapes, burning her brothers alive still in revenge.

    The Order of St. Dumas: Change them pretty directly. No longer a group out to punish the Waynes by killing Bruce. They seek to tear down Wayne Enterprises for their sins, declaring it a tool of evil, and kill Bruce, in a reason that will be explored further later in the series, but hinted at when the leader tells young Bruce how sorry he is that this is happening to him, but it's the only way to make certain the head is severed for good. They'll kill him using a unique curved dagger which they say was stolen in a war hundreds of years ago, that their original leader St. Dumas died in battle to ensure, and promise will prevent his life from being perverted.

    Theo still pulls strings to try and manipulate Penguin, having Tabitha kill his mom, when he tries to use Butch to get info on where she is. Very similar things happen to the actual season. But the Azrael concept is now accelerated to the mid-season finale. Theo Galavan is now a Knight of the Order of St. Dumas, who seeks to honor his people by destroying that which has threatened their people in a war that's lasted generations. He dons the armor in a battle between himself and the those Jim and Penguin have assembled in the mid-season finale and fights them off, Jim blowing his legs off with a shotgun, and allowing Oswald to still goad him into killing him. Though the remnants of the Order collect the armor afterwards in their retreat. Oswald takes the curved blade as a souvenir.

    Nygma becomes more sociopathic as the season goes on, building to him revealing he killed Dorety to Kringle, who freaks out and hits him and he kills her. Panicking himself, he hides the body, but places riddles leading to her. When Jim begins to investigate, uncovering the clues, Nygma frames him for the death of Officer Pinkney and leads the cops to evidence of Jim's involvement in Galavan's killing.

    Freeze's story is very similar. But Nora's kept alive by Strange. Strange uses this to force him to help them. Nora's placed in a cryo tube.

    Jim is in prison for 2 episodes, not 1. Dealing more with certain issues, maybe even seeing previous criminals from before. The cliffanger of the first part is Bullock going to Falcone.
    Bruce still goes to live on the streets with Selina, showing him how the underbelly of the city ticks, him using the name Matches when confronted, off the top of his head. This lasts until close to the end.

    The investigating of Pinewood occurs with Selina involved as well, with Bruce still on the streets. With his dad's computer fixed, him, Alfred and Selina, find the name of and seek out someone that Thomas was keeping hidden under a fake name, in hopes of getting him to testify against Strange in court: Dr. Kirk Langstrom.

    Kirk was a scientist in Indian Hill, working to use animal splicing as a way to cure human diseases, inspired by his son being deaf. He and his wife Francine, both scientists, had been working on a way to cure it using bat DNA. Strange was increasingly intrigued by this idea and offered to help, using a serum he'd insisted had been under numerous tests, he gave it to their son, and it worked, but his and Francine's happiness was short lived, as it eventually mutated their son into an almost zombie like deformity with batlike features who attacked and who Kirk killed to defend his wife, but not before his son bit him.

    The self loathing, guilt, grief and pain eventually deteriorated the marriage. Obsessed with discovering the truth, Kirk dug into why it failed, discovering Strange's notes, that he'd used his son as a guinea pig to see if human DNA could altered substantially. Kirk brought this to Thomas, telling him the truth, that Strange had been using funds to commit numerous cases of crimes against humanity through his human experimentation. Thomas hid Kirk under a fake identity to protect him while he put together the evidence. When Strange found out about Thomas' preparations to take the case to the government, he had him killed not long after.

    Bruce, Jim, Alfred and Selina find him and Kirk tells them about this, naming Strange, and admitting that he's kept hidden because with Thomas dead, he's feared for Francine's life and hasn't wanted to put her in jeopardy by stepping forward, without Thomas' protection. Since the situation Kirk has been quick tempered, violent and exhibiting enhanced strength. Now brokenhearted over being kept from Francine, he seeks her out after discovering Strange has her under surveillance.

    Strange, when he discover's that Kirk's falling into position equips an amnesiac Bridgette to assassinate Kirk. Kirk has an emotional reconciliation with Francine, where he apologizes for what happened to their son, blaming himself for his relentless pursuit of trying to perfect him, then saying that he loves her. Bridgette attacks, using her flamethrower at Kirk and Francine, Kirk hiding her from the flames, burning him, the pain causing a full physical mutation into a Man-Bat, it grabbing Bridgette and throwing her into the wall, it's wingspan inadvertently knocking Francine out. Kirk cries out in an animalistic roar and takes Francine, flying out the window with her. In the midst of this, Selina is shaken at seeing Bridgette and tries to snap her out of it, who gets a flash of a memory, compromising her, then returning to Strange.

    Afterwards Bruce recognizes the name Strange from what was told to them by Kirk and digs up a photo of Thomas and Strange at a party, remembering him as a friend to the family. The betrayal of this enrages Bruce.

    Jim works out that the Order of St Dumas were targeting Wayne Enterprises as punishment for their crimes and goes to Tabitha for information, her telling him that Wayne Enterprises has been corrupted for evil ends, though she doesn't know by who, as she was a warrior and not privy to that information. Bullock arrests her, in hopes of Jim getting more info on the situation. Strange becomes uneasy at learning about this, getting orders from an unseen figure to make sure she doesn't make it. Strange equips Victor Fries with his cryo-suit and tells him that only with their resources can they work out a cure, then telling him that if Jim Gordon can get the info he needs to shut down Indian Hill, without their help, Nora will die, and that he wants Tabitha and Jim dead.

    Begrudgingly, Mr. Freeze attacks the police department, using his ice grenades. He nearly kills Tabitha, but is stopped by Jim and Barnes, leaving her half dead. In a fight between Freeze and Barnes, Freeze wounds him badly, though when the police department is surrounded by press and such, Strange calls him back, to avoid too much exposure.

    Butch still goes to see Tabitha in the hospital, to be met with Penguin, who'd seen her being hurt on TV. Penguin, having now gotten all of his dad's assets, tells Butch that he will connect him with the best doctors to help Tabitha if Butch returns the seat at the head of the mob families to him. Butch questions him helping Tabitha, Penguin telling him that if she's going to die it'll be on his terms, not a freak in a space suit. Also telling Butch that he thinks he knows whose to blame for this, and that now they both have a score to settle.

    When Bruce is devising a way to get into Arkham, Selina volunteers outright, to get Bridgette back.

    Strange utilizes his experimentation on Basil Karlo and wakes him from his medically induced coma. Though unable to manipulate his skin at will, it's malleable and Strange still uses a device (though more portable) to force his skin to contort to look like Jim Gordon. Though for a different reason, so Basil can kill Bullock and take his place as acting Captain, to be able to control the police force.

    As Bruce is being tortured by Nygma, the now revealed Court Of Owls questions Strange if their experimented is ready. Strange, with hesitance, says that Project March isn't fully developed.

    The finale occurs mostly the same. Though we see Basil Karlo escape. And Bruce feels responsible for Selina getting caught, telling her that he can't see her anymore at the end, in a cold tactic to try and disconnect, after coming to the perception that his dad was wrong for thinking he could use legal tactics to stop Strange, which he says to Nygma, who still tortures him and Lucius for information, electrifying the floor, in a game of truth or die. Nygma still releases a gas into the room, which doesn't kill them, Bruce realizes afterwards, questioning why they wouldn't try to kill him after all he's dug into them. Keep the same cliffhanger.

    SEASON 3

    The present day story of the season opens with Jim, sneaking into a clocktower to try and capture Man-Bat, not some version of Killer Croc. This goes uncsuccessfully, Man-Bat escaping, though he inadvertently stumbles upon Francine, who was being kept alive by Man-Bat bringing her fruit.

    Jim's arc is mostly the same. Though we delve more into his backstory of why he came back to Gotham. In the war, he made a call that got some soldiers killed, but succeeded and he was hurt, so he was awarded with a medal and honorably discharged. He blamed himself for the loss of those soldiers and thought he could make up for it by coming to Gotham and trying to do the job and be the man his dad was. When he's effected by the red queen dust and trips out, he goes through this.

    When he comes back to ask Barnes about coming back to the force, he tells him that he did kill Theo Galavan, explaining his reasoning at the time, but admitting that he was wrong and that it's ruined his life. Barnes tells him that he's already been charged and exonerated of that crime and can't be charged again for it. Barnes also tells Jim that he hates what Jim did, but he accepts him back onto the force due to his perception that Jim's come around and (he doesn't tell Jim this) his own declining state due to the tetch virus.

    Barnes' story is mostly the same. Though the guy Barnes throws through the wall dies before hitting the car. Jim suspects Barnes based on the guy having Barnes' pocket square in his hand.

    We establish that the Court aren't allowed to kill Bruce. Bruce figures this out, saying that if they could, not only would he have died with his parents, but Alfred's friend and those assassins would have gone for him too. Bruce tells them this. They tell him he's right, but threaten those he cares about. Bruce does, in a way, try to stay out of the court's way by having a normal life and in dating Selina, but finds himself compelled to dig into it more, after the clone thing and all that. This leads him to the Whisper Gang, as he essentially drags Selina into the situation. Selina helps Bruce, with info from the whisper gang, steal a highly protected Court Of Owls possession: A diamond.

    Through this we reveal that Selina's mom is a member of the Whisper Gang when she helps them escape some talons and that's why she abandoned Selina. Selina and her mom connect. But her mom is killed by the talons and Selina's angry at the situation and Bruce and blames him for her getting to know and losing her. She pushes him away. The diamond remaining with Bruce. Bruce gives the diamond to Lucius to study. Him discovering that the diamond matches up with locations on the Gotham city map. It's eventually realized that they're locations of their facilities.

    Though Jervis claims to have only gotten in town, he was an indian hill scientist, who had Alice put in Arkham so he could manipulate her and had his hypnosis tech implanted into his own brain.

    Ivy experiments with remnants of Indian Hill to try and empower herself with them, getting help from a scientist Dr. Jason Woodrue whose fascinated with Strange's research and is trying to replicate it. Woodrue experiments on her with a chemical he's crafted to bond plant human DNA. He thinks it kills her and dumps her body, thinking it a failure, but she's alive and comes out of it enhanced. Though it's defective and she finds herself aging over the course of the season. She uses the Tetch virus to stop this process, leaving her stuck in her mid to late 20's at the end of the season.

    Leslie Thompkins' arc is basically the same. Except we reveal in the last batch of episodes that when Mario was killed, his blood splattered on her and has been slightly effecting her, then beginning to consume her as the season concludes.

    Same arcs for Butch, Tabitha and Barbara.

    Penguin, very similarly to the actual season, wants to establish some form of legitimacy in the eyes of the people. Though now, we'll reveal that Isabella is a clone, crafted as a way to manipulate Nygma, by Strange, who escaped with the bus of indian hill experiments. After Nygma shoots Penguin, dumping him in the water, he's pulled out by the Court, who seeks to use him to control the crime in Gotham.

    When Nygma turns himself over to get answers about whose been controlling Gotham, he sees this. This situation is where the court would reveal to Nygma the Isabella thing. Oswald and Ed still work together to escape and still want to destroy eachother, this building to the same place. Penguin acquiring help from more advanced villains, though now after he escapes the Court Of Owls, like Mr. Freeze and Ivy and such. And Nygma using the mobs. And Nygma being frozen at the end in the same way.

    Here we'd reveal that Freeze thinks Nora died in the destruction of Indian Hill, then discovering that her cryo tube was missing from the rubble.

    Selina struggles as she tries to have a life of some kind and connect more with people. Her relationship with Bruce is apart of that. This builds to her feeling angry and hurt at her mom's death. When clone Bruce tells her that what's happening, she lashes out at him in the same way and then realizes that he killed her mom, after he slips up about the diamond not being found on her body. The court wanting the diamond back is another reason why they're having clone Bruce take over Bruce's life. In anger at being rejected by Selina he still pushes her out the window. Selina's unconscious for couple episodes and is still awoken by Ivy. Selina still immediately goes after clone Bruce. Alfred at this point has realized who the clone Bruce is and is trying to manipulate the situation to find out where the real Bruce is. A curve is thrown into that when Selina tries to straight up kill him. When the clone escapes Alfred tries to acquire Selina's help in finding Bruce, but she rejects it, wanting to avoid dealing with Bruce disappearing, fearing him to be dead. At the end of the season she helps the GCPD use the diamond to find where the court of owls lairs are. Then taking the diamond, she goes after clone Bruce herself and fights him, cracking his skull with the diamond, leaving his body.
    This all builds to her deciding that she's been hurt too much and doesn't want to feel that way anymore, she wants to be detached from that, still seeking help from Tabitha. But keeping the diamond as a memento of her mom.

    Bruce has as a similar arc as in the season, but different. Bruce wants to and tries to have a relationship with Selina, but is drawn to discovering the root of the court. He tries to balance it out, but the death of Selina's mom causes a wedge in that. After this he puts his focus on seeking the answers behind the court, why his parents were killed, why they cloned him, why they left him alive. This leads him to being taken by the league of assassins. When offered the answers in exchange for access to his mind, Bruce caves. They brainwash him.

    The answers behind the court are: For hundreds of years they've been controlled by the league of assassins and Ra's Al Ghul. The court has been trying to replicate the lazarus pit process so they wouldn't be under Ra's thumb. His explicit order was to not harm any of the Waynes. When Thomas sought to expose them, they had him killed, going through Strange's Indian Hill connections and a low level street assassin to make it look like a lowly robbery and avoid suspicion and punishment from Ra's. When Bruce began digging into Indian Hill himself, the court sought to clone a replacement to get rid of him without Ra's knowing and have someone who could be controlled amidst Ra's attachment to Bruce. The Order Of St. Dumas knew about Ra's seeking Bruce as his heir and sought to cut the head off the snake before it even had a chance to grow, in hopes of crippling the league of assassins and/or causing it to implode.

    Alfred's arc is about him beginning to accept Bruce's mission.

    There are dual A-plots running in the finale:

    In the last 2 episodes Jim, infected by the Tetch virus, questions himself, whether he actually has Gotham's best interests or if he's only ever wanted an excuse to do what he wanted (Did he have to kill Mario to save Leslie? Knowing he could've found another way than killing Galavan). When Bullock tries to stop Jim, leading to the confrontation between them, Bullock tells Jim that he showed him the path to doing the right thing, that made him feel like a worthwhile human being again, finishing that making mistakes doesn't mean those mistakes define him. This does still lead to the same conclusion.

    Instead of having Alfred simply captured by Ra's and Bruce made to stab him: Alfred challenges Ra's to a sword fight for Bruce. Ra's wins, after toying with Alfred, who doesn't do bad. The same happens, Bruce is made to stab Alfred, his brainwashing breaks, Bruce uses the waters of the pit to heal him. This leads to the same conclusion in the story. Though the situation plays more into the idea that Bruce thought getting answers would help him somehow, but all it did was hurt those he cared about and the city itself. He doesn't know what to do now, that he feels lost, which still leads to him deciding to be a vigilante at the end of the season.

    SEASON 4

    Much of this season is the same as far as Butch, Tabitha, Oswald, Leslie, Jim, Bullock, Sophia, Bruce and Alfred's stories go.

    No Harper. Our young rookie female cop is now Renee Montoya. Preferably played by Adria Arjona.

    Ra's pit is cosmic, like viscus liquid energized by irradiated energy bleeding into reality, not magic. The blade that Bruce stabs Ra's with is made out Nnth metal. The blade is also the same one the Order Of St. Dumas had and were going to kill Bruce with. The war that they spoke of in which they got the dagger, was between them and the League Of Assassins. It doesn't kill Ra's due to the pit's effects on him, but puts him in a state of hibernation, to drive Bruce further into his darkness. Though Bruce doesn't know this. But this is why the Order Of St. Dumas sought to kill him with the blade before he would be exposed to the pit, as it would prevent the pit from being able to heal fatal injuries and old age.

    Selina as a the season goes on is learning things from both Barbara and Tabitha. Tabitha teaches Selina agility, thinking on her feet and more advanced fighting skills. Babs shows her how to finesse her way through situations more, be cunning. Selina seeks to be like them, seeing them as role models. This season shows her as trying to cut herself off from her emotions, not wanting to care about anything, but questions that approach, wondering what's the point if you're going to hollow yourself out. She calls out Barbara and Tabitha for this attitude.

    Don't kill off the pyg. He gets locked up. Sophia still reveals that while she, through an outside contractor, pointed the pyg at Gotham, she didn't plan everything he'd done.

    Barbara's story is very similar, with differences, one being that her being made head of the league was a manipulation to purge the league of weakness in preparation for Ra's plan. Barbara's arc is coming to the realize that in order for her to get the power she wants, she'd have to give up those she cares for, her friends. When Ra's comes to her in the finale offering her a position of leadership by his side, after realizing he was behind Joker shooting Selina, she decides to help Bruce stop him.

    Nygma's arc plays more as an issue with his lacking intelligence for the first half, increasing his feeling of inferiority. His issues are psychological still. Through this we develop his backstory more, detailing his childhood where he was picked on at school and viewed as lesser for his intelligence, and not regarded by his parents who never acknowledged him or his abilities. Leslie tries to push Nygma to let go of that anger he feels at it, as it's the way to let go of the Riddler persona he's pressured on himself (We'd develop the idea that Ed's insecurity at losing to Penguin, at being demeaned by him is what's caused his lackings in intelligence, it being a reminder of his childhood issues). Nygma is enraged at the suggestion. Leslie then pushes him to instead of using his skills for hurting others, maybe helping will help him. He finds he enjoys the praise he gets from others when he helps them. But when that's threatened by Sophia Falcone, bringing back his intense feelings of inadequacy, he can't think straight. In the rage he feels at this, he turns to Penguin. Who, as a way to get revenge on Sophia, acknowledges The Riddler as an identity for Ed. Ed, thinking straight at the feeling of his ego being assuaged, helps break Penguin out and they go after Sophia. This would still conclude the same way with Penguin and Nygma.

    Riddler and Leslie will still work together, but it's not romance based. He's intrigued by her dark turn and Leslie's goal is the same.

    They both decide to betray eachother. Leslie motives being more complicated, her issues with Ed framing Jim, her losing her baby and him killing Kringle. Ed's, at feeling like her viewpoint has made him soft.

    Penguin's arc is more similar to what happened in the season. The idea being at him living with the choice he made at the end of season 3 to be detached from connections. With Sophia seeking to manipulate him with connections to his mom, he still seeks to expose her as lying, but doesn't want to kill her without proof. This does build him to the same situation, where he prevents Ed's death on the pier, having reconciled the idea of being willing to keep the friendship he has, over pursuing self destruction by revenge. With this understanding, in the Jerome/Jeremiah arc, he rejects the idea of destroying the city, seeing no benefit to helping it self destruct.

    Freeze in the finale confronts Strange about how he's recently discovered that Strange keeping him cryo-temperatures after his incident made his condition irreversible and tries to kill Strange for that. Strange bargains for his life, telling Freeze that he knows where Nora's cryostasis tube is.

    After Penguin shoots Butch, when Leslie and Ed are brought to Strange, Strange recognizes that remnants of the indian hill chemicals were still in Butch's system and stopping his heart again reverted him back to his previous state, only now permanent.

    In the episode where Bruce sees his darkness and such, the voice speaking to him is played by Kevin Conroy.

    I'd prefer for Jeremiah to be introduced earlier in the season. One of the reasons to build the friendship between him and Bruce. And also to establish him as someone living a reclusive life, living in constant paranoia and fear of Jerome, with almost no connections, one of his only being his psychiatrist. The police track Jeremiah's location and find him, which leads Jerome to him. Meanwhile the Indian Hill barrel that Oswald showed Butch he got for Jerome to use in his plan.

    Now one of the bigger differences:

    That's Entertainment. The story differences are:

    Jerome makes the cops bring Jeremiah to him with the same set up, just earlier in the episode. He refuses, until Bruce convinces him that he's let his brother take so much power away from him, making him disconnect from life entirely, and that it's time to show him that he's not afraid of him, to stand up to him and show him what a hero is. Jeremiah is inspired by this and goes.

    Jim would uncover that Jeremiah has been keeping obsessive track of every detail of Jerome's life.

    Jerome torments Jeremiah with images of his dead mom and the idea that they're the same.

    In the midst of the chaotic situation when the bombs are disconnected, Jeremiah, furiously, chases after Jerome, Bruce following close behind. Jeremiah gets to the roof to discover that Jerome has used the Indian Hill chemicals to heal his face wound and throat wounds, him revealing that he was always going to kill Jeremiah and take his life. Jeremiah tells Jerome that that won't happen and that he's going to jail. Jerome laughs at this, questioning his intelligence for thinking that they can keep him locked up for very long, then threatening to always destroy every bit of Jeremiah's life and saying that no matter where Jeremiah hides, Jerome will always be there and will systematically destroy every thing he gains in his life, all to remind him that they're the same and that there's nothing he can do about it. Jeremiah, in a fit of rage tries to kill Jerome, beating him badly, brutally (as we here the cackling laughter of Mark Hamill's Joker echo between them), Bruce pulling him off. We see the craziness in Jeremiah's eyes. Jerome takes the opportunity to thank Bruce before leaping off of the roof into the ocean. Jeremiah is furious at Bruce for this. The episode ends with Jeremiah, alone in his reclusive home, staring at nothing but images of Jerome's face, as he begins to have a mental breakdown.

    Jeremiah is still our more direct villain. Though his motive is different. His goal is to essentially destroy Jerome, even if that means, taking out most of Gotham to do it. He tries to force Bruce into a position where he's willing to kill Scarecrow, to prove to him that they need to work together to kill Jerome or if he won't help him, tells him to stay out of his way. But Bruce refuses both options.

    We proceed the same from there. Jeremiah shoots Selina, though now to punish Bruce for trying to stop him. Though Selina isn't paralyzed. But is badly hurt. The diamond she keeps as a memento of her mom slowing the bullet, though breaking into pieces itself.

    Ra's isn't killed at the end of the season, but sets off a part of the building their in to explode, leaving them to think he's dead. But at the end of the episode he meets up with Talia, who is Grace (the character that was running around with Bruce as he was boozing it up, played by Samia Finnerty, earlier in the season), with them talking about it beginning.

    SEASON 5

    Because Selina wouldn't be paralyzed, her story would be different slightly. She'd be hurt and need physical therapy, but not be 100% and be trying to help herself. Like as soon as she can walk she wants revenge and she tries to get it, but isn't physically able to and goes to Ivy for help, making a deal with her. Her arc is at first dealing with revenge against Jeremiah. Keeping the shattered pieces of the diamond she kept as a memento of her mom, she retrofits them into claws for gloved hands. In the season she deals emotionally with her darkness, which she starts to realize after she goes after Jeremiah and faces off against Bruce trying to stop her from killing him. Now having accepted caring about those in her life, she fears for how her darkness could hurt those she cares about and tries to push Bruce away, in a similar scene in the season where she tells Bruce that she didn't save his parents that night because she didn't care enough to risk her life and telling him that they aren't the same. This does build to her thinking that having darkness doesn't make her all that is and that it doesn't mean she can't still help people, which she tells Bruce when she stays with him to help against Slade and the army at the end of the season. This doesn't mean she won't also act in her best interests if she wants to.

    In the midst of some of these things, there'd be a wrap up of a few hanging threads, one being Man-Bat, whose been hiding in Gotham Cathedral's belltower and is tranqued and cured, for the time being, with us seeing Langstrom's still effected by being the Man-Bat. Maybe Harvey Dent, now an adult man, is one of the survivors of the apartment complex explosion. And in episode 8, the woman Bullock kills, we'd see her body be taken Strange and use her DNA to enhance Basil Karlo, to give him more control over his shape-shifting, allowing him to do it without his device. And Strange keeping Solomon Grundy chained up in his cellar, after which he would escape into the sewers. And Killer Croc being in the sewers, more mutated now, hiding, after Strange's experiments. And as an added gag, we'd see Arnold Wesker, running a portion of Gotham with the Scarface doll.

    This season Ed's more private eye Ed Nygma in No Man's Land Gotham, helping the cops, in his own arrogance, basically now that I think about it, sort of Benedict Cumberbatch Sherlock-like. Though he'd get angry at a lack of recognition and even failure to solve some crimes that someone, say Bruce (though maybe anonymously), is able to solve. He would then lash out and retake the Riddler persona at the end of the season.

    Ironically, the idea for Lee is closer to what happened with Ed. However, slightly different. At the end of the first episode, Bruce is hurt, and is found by Leslie Thompkins, who keeps waking up in different places, messed up in the head. She patches up Bruce and talks with him about his mom and dad, saying that she set him up with his mom. They bond more. When Lee discovers that she was made to blow up the building, she has an emotional breakdown. She tried to play with darkness, she realizes and let it consume her and use her, blaming herself for the people who were killed. This leads her to further pursue opening a free clinic in Gotham to help as many people as possible.

    The Joker arc would now be comprised of essentially a war between Jerome and Jeremiah. Jeremiah becoming the leader of the Red Hood gang, essentially a cult established to destroy Jerome. Jerome, leading a collective of maniax. Jeremiah, seeing him and Bruce as being the same, wants his help in taking out Jerome. Bruce, now establishing a disgust with him, refuses. Jeremiah, while still trying to recreate his parents death to remind him of his pain, leads Bruce to what he knows Jerome is planning:

    Using ACE Chemicals to create enough laughing gas to release through the Gotham river ace chemicals spillways and cause insanity in all of Gotham. Bruce goes to stop him. Jeremiah following. The battle leads to an explosion, causing the catwalk over the chemicals to fall apart, after Bruce shuts down the finale process, making it not be released in gaseous form. He fights Jerome, Jeremiah as the red hood, assisting, only in the interest of killing Jerome. When the railing falls apart completely, Bruce hits Jerome, as Jeremiah goes to stab him, the catwalk breaking apart, both Jerome and Jeremiah falling into the chemicals, as Bruce uses his grapnel gun to avoid it. Guilt ridden, he tries to stop the explosion of the plant, but Selina drags him out, to keep him from getting himself killed.

    Though the spillway releases the chemicals into the river in liquid form. Afterwards a charred body is found, with the same DNA as both Jerome and Jeremiah. Afterwards we'd see a body washing up on the beach of coast city.

    Jim would have in this season what I call a "mustache arc". Because of the No Man's Land situation, Jim, to preserve resources for other people, only uses what's needed to keep himself healthy and clean, but not using water for unnecessary shaving, saying he'll do it when they get back complete connection with the mainland. In the episode before the finale, at the end when the situation's been resolved, he shaves the beard, but stops short of mustache, taking a look at himself with it and deciding to keep it. Bullock quickly mocks it. As far as his character arc goes, I'd have him, after the destruction of the apartment complex, would start to not really have a strong drive. Due to the one after another situations that keep coming to Gotham. But that changes when he finds out he has a daughter...

    This take is different: Barbara Kean was pregnant with her and Jim's baby while he was in the war, but her parents made her give the baby up for adoption right after her birth and just before Jim returned from the war and moved to Gotham. The child, now 5 years old, is used to manipulate Jim in the season by the villains. The daughter is still apart if Barbara's arc too.

    The 2 episodes that were added later:

    Episode 8: This is the same. But the Bruce, Alfred, Riddler and Penguin subplot is now connected, with a different threat. Ivy has in her position a key component that Ed and Oswald need for their submarine. And Bruce and Alfred are investigating people being mind controlled by Ivy. The Jim and Bullock are the same.

    Episode 9: This deals with Freeze and Firefly's turf war, due to Nora's cryo-stasis tube being in the GPCD evidence locker which is in Firefly's territory. Jim's infected by a time delaying freezing agent that acts slowly and falls into unconsciousness, where he questions in his tripping out, whether he's capable of being a dad due to his compromises and how he's fallen short and failed and finds God in this process, and coming to the understanding of doing better. Bruce and Selina seek to resolve the turf war to avoid more casualties.

    Nyssa doesn't want revenge on Bruce for killing Ra's. She hates Ra's for passing his mantle to, not his oldest daughter, but to Bruce. And she wants to kill Barbara because she leads the section of the league and wants them wiped out too, essentially wanting to destroy what Ra's wanted.

    Instead of Bane in this season is Slade Wilson, who is an old army buddy of Jim. Regarded as unstoppable in the battlefield, the other soldiers nicknamed him The Terminator. Slade Wilson's a few years older than Jim, old enough to have his own son stationed with him in his platoon, during the time when Jim was there. Jim made a call in the battlefield that resulted in the death of Slade's son and he wants revenge for that. Though he wouldn't be involved in the destruction of that apartment complex and wouldn't even necessarily know much about it. Similar things would happen, be experimented on by Strange etc. But his character takes a different turn at the end and, being faced with the idea of killing a child, he turns against Nyssa.

    In the finale, we open on Joker waking up in the hospital from a coma after 10 years, to the TV talking about Bruce Wayne returning to Gotham. He kills some people in the hospital, without us seeing his face, only the green hair he has now. Running outside, he drops to the ground, seeing the reflection of his face in the reflection in a puddle, a hideous pale, red lipped face with the green hair, and begins to laugh maniacally.

    As much as I understand wanting to keep David in the role, I think the more helpful option, to have a fully costumed and developed Batman, would be to recast for an older actor. David could've still had his moments in the episode. An idea God blessed me with is where Bruce and Selina talk and we play it more as a symbolic thing where they still see eachother as the way they were when they were teens and you can have David and Camren play those roles.

    Sophie Cookson as Older Selina

    Thomas McDonell as Older Bruce

    I think the costume being different would've helped. More grey-ish and body-suit like.

    Jim keeps the mustache, along with it being slightly different. Jim himself is tired of the fight. The city's still controlled by the criminals. And Jim's gotten older and refuses to compromise again to try and achieve his goal of saving the city and is going to retire.

    Oswald maintains the guise of legit businessman. As Ed works as a silent partner, messing with competition in his elaborate mind games. Batman stops them and delivers evidence finally able to put them away early in the episode. Though they still escape, Oswald finally seeing his days in Gotham as numbered as a legit businessman, decides to try and take out Jim on the pier, Jim escaping it.

    There's now a full tilt confrontation between Joker and Batman. In this situation, after Joker, unable to even explain whether he's Jerome or Jeremiah (whether he's lying about it, being honest about his confusion, or both is left open), recognizes Bruce as Batman but can't quite remember his name, stopping short of B. Batman defeats him and Jim's grip on the rope holding Barbara slips, Batman catching it. Jim asks him who he is and Batman responds that he's a friend.

    When Jim pulls the tarp off of the signal, it already has a bat signal placed on it. Jim agrees to stay on as commissioner.

    As the bat signal shines in the sky, Batman stands in a pose similar to the end of Mask Of The Phantasm and leaps off of the building gliding through the sky. And we end there.

    Please review and tell me what you think and please tell me what you'd do differently!
    #1 fan4stic, May 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
    Awest66 likes this.

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