The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[Jordacar]

You don't have to have seen the SAW movies to know that the Jigsaw killer owes a lot of his inspiration to the Riddler.

That said, I haven't seen a lot of in-depth discussion about how to introduce the Riddler into the Nolanverse. My favorite rendition of the character is definitely the smooth intellectual of BTAS:
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I read somewhere that on the show, Riddler didn't appear that much because some of the stories that they came up with for him were too complicated to fit into 20 minutes. In a movie, they could draw things out a little more.

In Batman Forever, I think they really dropped the ball by making both the villains into Joker knock-offs (you can easily replace Riddler with Joker when he's blowing up the Bat-cave.)

I do imagine if he was in the Nolanverse, there would be a little Jigsaw-type action going on with some of his traps, but nobody wants to see "Saw-Lite." The Riddler's psychology is very different from Jigsaw. In all versions, Riddler is definitely more ego-driven. Another difference is that Jigsaw never had to go up against Batman (he probably would've had some respect for Bats). Batman has the mental capabilities to not only figure out Nygma's brainteasers, but also Nygma himself.

The riddles and traps that Nygma leaves behind could also take some cues from things like "National Treasure" and "DaVinci Code" with their complexity.

I didn't see a lot of Riddler on "The Batman" so I'm not sure what to draw from there.

 

[DawnWarrior]

I do imagine if he was in the Nolanverse, there would be a little Jigsaw-type action going on with some of his traps, but nobody wants to see "Saw-Lite." The Riddler's psychology is very different from Jigsaw. In all versions, Riddler is definitely more ego-driven. Another difference is that Jigsaw never had to go up against Batman (he probably would've had some respect for Bats). Batman has the mental capabilities to not only figure out Nygma's brainteasers, but also Nygma himself.

Jigsaw's also a lot more self-righteous than the Riddler. To Jig, he's doing these people a favor putting them through these sadistic exercises. Riddler is a lot more about "look how smart I am!"

 

[Joker]

Trust me, you dont want anything from The Batman's version of the Riddler. Unless you have a Marilyn Manson or Freddy Krueger fetish.

 

[BlueLightning]

Maybe his origin, I really liked the way they showed the Riddler origin.

 

[Nepenthes]

I'd rather the Riddler didn't take his cues from weak and gimmicky 'horror' movies.

 

[ronny]

The Riddler is a robber, a bomber, a man who acts based on his own ego and inability to supress that ego. Does he kill people? Not really for fun, only if it would further his aim of outwitting the cops and Batman and being known as the man who did it.
Face it, The Riddler is a loser (That's why I like him) and he's not a bloodthirsty serial killer. I personally think that he should kidnap Gordon, a Riddler film should be dialogue heavy. He taunts Batman, the cops, even the existing criminals in Gotham (Who beat him up on a regular basis when he tries to fit in). And what it all boils down to is this loser who wants attention. Kind of like "Look how smart I am!"
He's that annoying schoolkid who has to answer every question.

 

[COMPO]

you the bit in the Superman film were Superman is going after Luthor and theres all those traps that he just walks through. Would be good if in the final confrontation qwith the Riddler it was like that with Batman finding his hideout and having to go through all these traps sort of Crystal Maze thing.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I'd rather the Riddler didn't take his cues from weak and gimmicky 'horror' movies.

^I agree with this man.

 

[Jordacar]

you the bit in the Superman film were Superman is going after Luthor and theres all those traps that he just walks through. Would be good if in the final confrontation qwith the Riddler it was like that with Batman finding his hideout and having to go through all these traps sort of Crystal Maze thing.

There's a completely innocuous connection there that I just realized: John Glover played Riddler on BTAS, and he plays Lex Luthor's dad on 'Smallville.' He's the voice I always hear in my head when I read the Riddler in the comics.

 

[Hyden]

if you look to 'saw', 'the Da Vinci code', and 'National Treasure' as inspiration for anything besides suicide, you probably should never be allowed to provide creative ideas for anything.
Riddler is a feasibly "realistic" character, but he's also, at his core, an obsessive compulsive loser. A movie with him as the main antagonist is bound to be crappy because only an audience of comic-book forum goers can empathize with a pathetic unimaginative spaz trying to get attention through acting out.
He's intriguing 'cause he's pathetic, but he doesn't have the character to make people care about his ******ed plight

 

[Steve Holt]

i always saw him as a Una-bomber type, an genius no-one who creates this terrorist persona. think Ed Norton in Fight Club as a start then throw in some bullying backstory, a reference to dissappointed parents.
then bombs all over gotham. batman must decipher his clues all the while Two-face is killing the mob,
batman must turn to the person he put away, the joker

 

[GlasgowBat]

"STEVE HOLT!"

i loved arrested development....

 

[JokerLedger]

It seems like The Joker is playing the role of The Riddler in the TDK virals.

 

[Steve Holt]

Steve Holt!

 

[BlueLightning]

I don´t think he is a loser by any way. I grow up watching Batman TAS, and in that series he was smooth, brilliant and, in a way, sinister. In his origin he was just seeking revenge, in others, just personal gratification. Brains over matter, never a physical match but a mental one.

 

[Man Who Laughed]

I always loved how they later identified/revealed that Riddler actually cannot leave a crime scene without leaving a riddle. Whoever came up with the concept of the Riddler was a genius. His one compulsion and possible edge over Batman is his downfall. But he keeps trying. Always thinking today is the day he fools the Bat.

 

[Riven]

I think it'd be a serious mistake to try and make the Riddler a "bad-ass" or "frightening" character. He's not a funky terrorist, he's not a mass-murderer or a creepy serial killer. If you make him that, you're doing the same thing BF did: ripping off the Joker, just in a different way.

It's a common mistake in superhero fiction that for a character to be interesting, he has to be made "darker". That's just not true. To me, the Riddler is interesting as the frustrated brainiac who's taken his compulsions too far, who isn't as big or as prominent a threat as Batman's other villains, but who therefor has the chance to slip by now and then and be underestimated.

I don't respect the Saw movies, because they had a genuinely interesting concept and started cheating on their own premise almost from the get-go. So taking cues from Jigsaw for the Riddler seems like a bad idea to me. Futhermore, the characters' psychology almost couldn't be more different, so it's already a tenuous stretch trying to transpose the one's modus operandi onto the other's...

And just for the record, The Da Vinci Code and National Treasure in no way have any complexity. If anything, the machinations in those movies were only a few steps up from the Riddler's pathetically simple riddles in BF...

 

[Ratcrawler]

I may be in the minority, but I rather liked The Batman's Goth Riddler. The design was a nice sPin on the original costume before they stuck him in the door-to-door salesman outfit. It gave me the impression that here was a villain who wears a skin tight leotard because he's a fetishist.

I'm not saying that outfit would translate onscreen but do all Bat-villains have to wear suits?

As far as motive goes, I figure he's a genius who just got fed up with how dumb society's gotten. His dad was a moron who never appreciated his talents and beat him, he was constantly tormented in his school years by dumb goons, his boss always promoted rich croneys over him. Yes, the world is on a roller coaster ride into Idiocracy and it's about time people started relying on their wits again. If they can't put together a few clues to find out where a bomb will go off or where millions of dollars will disappear from...well, they should have paid more attention in school now shouldn't they?

 

[Jordacar]

if you look to 'saw', 'the Da Vinci code', and 'National Treasure' as inspiration for anything besides suicide, you probably should never be allowed to provide creative ideas for anything.

I was just saying for starters. 'treasure' and 'davinci' were just off the top of my head.

Anyway, there didn't seem to be a Riddler discussion board, so I thought I'd start one by saying Jigsaw totally ripped off the Riddler.

There, I think I've covered myself.

 

[Danielson]

The Riddler would be a great character, but I just don't think he'd be all that great as the sole villain in a movie. He'd need a partner, which sucks because it'd likely be Two-Face. In a perfect world, I'd put him with the Penguin, I'll explain why later.

I see Edward Norton as the Riddler, that's the only guy I see as him because he's a good actor. I can't stand it when fanboys say "o, this guy should be the villain" simply because he looks like him. With make-up, new interpretations, and CGI, look isn't the first thing you should consider, but acting ability.

The Riddler should be persuasive in a subtle way, and not seem threatening, but in reality, is very dangerous, Ed Norton plays those roles PERFECTLY.

I wouldn't mind Nolan retelling a totally different Riddler origin. Maybe have him start as a detective who finds out the crime, but always, someone else steals it and gets all the credit. So he quits, and commits crimes that only he could have figured out. The reason I'd pair him with the Penguin is because I'd make the Penguin a mob boss, a short pudgy guy with a big nose, who takes short steps like a Penguin, nothing that doesn't look human, but resembling a Penguin. A former detective getting paid off by a mob boss would work IMO. The problem then would be that and epic final fight scene would have to be more about traps and less about fighting.


As for previous Riddlers, I hated Jim Carey, he was way too goofy and I just couldn't buy him as being intelligent at all. As usualy, Jim had to make some stupid faces and stupid noises in his movies, it's his trademark, which I could stand that, but the spandex and the "look at my balls" pelvic thrusts I could do without.

 

[StanLee Wannabe]

Steve Holt would be perfect.
Ed Norton and Kevin Spacey would have been fine if they hadn't been in other comicbook movies.

Sting or David Bowie might be inspired choices.

Gary Busey is the obvious choice though - you wouldn't have to write a lick of dialog. Just let him act like he does in real life.

 

[DawnWarrior]

As far as motive goes, I figure he's a genius who just got fed up with how dumb society's gotten. His dad was a moron who never appreciated his talents and beat him, he was constantly tormented in his school years by dumb goons, his boss always promoted rich croneys over him. Yes, the world is on a roller coaster ride into Idiocracy and it's about time people started relying on their wits again. If they can't put together a few clues to find out where a bomb will go off or where millions of dollars will disappear from...well, they should have paid more attention in school now shouldn't they?

I can definitely dig that interpretation.

 

[Ceb-Man]

I would love to see the Riddler who uses his riddles and puzzles to not only use against Batman and the police, but also show this man as intelligent criminal mastermind.
I would also borrow one aspect from Batman: Hush and Batman Forever,that he figures out Bruce Wayne is Batman. Not through a device that was used in BF, but he figured it out through his intelligence!
A villian that figured out your secret identity could make a complex and interesting movie and protagonist.

 

[Jordacar]

I would also borrow one aspect from Batman: Hush and Batman Forever,that he figures out Bruce Wayne is Batman. Not through a device that was used in BF, but he figured it out through his intelligence!
A villian that figured out your secret identity could make a complex and interesting movie and protagonist.

I'm actually getting a little sick of that convention: the villain discovering the hero's identity. The seem to do that in every superhero movie now, to the point where it's no longer surprising or as dramatic, and to not do it would be the novelty.

But yay all the way for Riddler's big brain.

 

[American_Idiot]

I'd like the Riddler to be much more serious than the Joker-fied version of the past movie franchise, but his traps nowhere near as gruesome as Jigsaw's. I'm thinking more along the lines of Kevin Spacey in "Seven".