Ridin’ with Biden

Why is he waiting for Schumer to tell him to start? Biden is head of the party right now. Start making calls, Biden.

I don't think that's a good use of Biden's influence. You want to coordinate political pressure and time it when a bill is ready for consideration. That's Schumer's domain.
 
I don't think that's a good use of Biden's influence. You want to coordinate political pressure and time it when a bill is ready for consideration. That's Schumer's domain.
What do you think about the angle that this primes the pump for elected Dems to fall in line?

Like you know with this you're gonna get a call.

If you are in the Senate despite all the show boating built in to the chamber if you are a Senator isn't it better to be a known "Yes" when the Party is moving in a certain direction? To make that conversation short and sweet and be "Yes Mister President, I can be counted on" rather than be the ones to get the call and have it be a three hour fest of "C'mon man... Cut the Malarkey... I thought you were cool Roscoe?" (I... We all know that's the convo. A digression... Dana Carvey's Biden is KING. If you haven't heard it look for it. You'll spit milk.)

No one wants to get the second call I assume, no?

Yeah... Our resident DINOs are gonna be an issue but in terms of swaying the rest making this an inevitable path kinda sends a signal for all hands to be on deck, right?

As such, was this just that, a signal, bit also a tactic that says this message means this is where we are headed. Get on board now. You don't want to be the ones seen as holding things back because that will be remembered?

Or am I giving and old pol like Joe and his team too much credit?
 
I don't think that's a good use of Biden's influence. You want to coordinate political pressure and time it when a bill is ready for consideration. That's Schumer's domain.
The old methods have proven ineffective. Constant, sustained pressure is probably necessary here.
 
The old methods have proven ineffective. Constant, sustained pressure is probably necessary here.
Fair enough, but I don't think my take is an "old method". You push and push and push, but save the best til last. It's tricky because Joe Manchin and even Sinema could just flip and become repubs. Give them what they need for their state and give them a chance to go back and brag....yeah, that's old method and I hope it isn't necessary at some point. That being said, voting rights is pivotal and codifying those rights is, as I've said, what I would hang my hat on as far as changing cloture rules in the senate. What's more important? A senate rule or the right of an (hopefully) informed electorate to determine their future? Manchin, Sinema, etc have their political futures tied to voting rights and this needs to be leveraged.
 
Fair enough, but I don't think my take is an "old method". You push and push and push, but save the best til last. It's tricky because Joe Manchin and even Sinema could just flip and become repubs. Give them what they need for their state and give them a chance to go back and brag....yeah, that's old method and I hope it isn't necessary at some point. That being said, voting rights is pivotal and codifying those rights is, as I've said, what I would hang my hat on as far as changing cloture rules in the senate. What's more important? A senate rule or the right of an (hopefully) informed electorate to determine their future? Manchin, Sinema, etc have their political futures tied to voting rights and this needs to be leveraged.
Based on what?

Manchin has a family scandal. Press that. That's what FDR would do. He'd tell Manchin it would be a real shame if the FBI had to look into his daughter.
 
Based on what?

Manchin has a family scandal. Press that. That's what FDR would do. He'd tell Manchin it would be a real shame if the FBI had to look into his daughter.

I'm down with that......old school. You wouldn't believe what my old school, union mentor once told me. I still shake my Fing head. He was a merchant marine so there's that.....
 
Based on what?

Manchin has a family scandal. Press that. That's what FDR would do. He'd tell Manchin it would be a real shame if the FBI had to look into his daughter.

He also volunteered to be part of the Lincoln Battalion and volunteered to fight against Franco, but when they looked at him, they just laughed and said "Go home kid, you're way too young". Loved that guy.

EDIT: Just in case anyone is confused, that wasn't Manchin. LOL
 
One can't help but think that if this information had been made public immediately after 9/11, that the Bush Administration would have found itself under public pressure to bomb Riyadh instead of Baghdad.

That's just it...

We did know. We knew the majority of the highjackers were Saudis. As was Bin Laden. We already knew about Saudi financial support of exporting extremism. We certainly knew enough to determine that Iraq had zero contribution to 9/11/01.

We were also told about the ramifications of invading Iraq on multiple levels. The debate that gave us this informatin played out every day across cable news and in print and online. Nothing was kept from us that could sway us one way or the other truthfully. To learn that going to Iraq would most likely end up empowering Iran in the region, destabilize the region and unleash even more radicalized Muslims on the world because attacking Iraq would just confirm their beliefs about America and the West in general... We knew all this. This was public knowledge and it was a vigorous argument.


If that argument missed was missed by folk they chose not to see it. And for those that were engaged they then also made a choice to believe that what all the experts said would occur if we went to Iraq was somehow false.

Did the Bushies lie and push BS? Yeah.

But the counternarrative was as widely dispersed. Lefties can bray about Judith Miller all they want and say the MSM was in on convincing the public but that does not line up with my memories at all. As usual the majority of the media was accused by the Right Wing of being insufficiently Pro-America because they kept publishing articles and doing reports about how the **** the Bush Admin. put out didn't pass the smell test and you didn't have to search for this info. You didn't have to have some inside source or go to the undbelly of "the dark web" or some ****.

The Bushies lied and people died?

No.

The Bushies lied and a **** metric ton of people, the American public, CHOSE to believe those lies despite having access to sober analysis that said in fact Iraq was a fool's errand.


And then we doubled down when the 2004 election came and the writing was already on the wall as to how this attempt at Democritizing was going (hint... Not well. Iraq was never close to stable in this period or the ensuing years if not rest of the decade.) but public gave Bush a victory anyway.

We don't have a lack of information with these things for the past two decades. We are told what we need to know to make an informed decision. Too many simply make the choice poorly and then we turn around and play victim to circumstance when the choice blows up in all of our faces.
 
That's just it...

We did know. We knew the majority of the highjackers were Saudis. As was Bin Laden. We already knew about Saudi financial support of exporting extremism. We certainly knew enough to determine that Iraq had zero contribution to 9/11/01.

Iraq was a convenient target because the United States was already de facto at war with it and had been ever since the Gulf War. The Clinton Administration had maintained a strict sanctions regime as well as a no-fly zone on the grounds that Saddam (allegedly) still had WMD that hadn't been handed over to the UN weapons inspectors in 1991. Not to mention that the 1998 Iraq Liberation Act (which even Bernie Sanders supported) had made it the official policy of the United States to pursue regime-change in Iraq (although it didn't explicitly call for an invasion).

As such, it was easier to persuade the American public to go to war against a country that they were already accustomed to seeing as an enemy rather than somewhere else.

We were also told about the ramifications of invading Iraq on multiple levels. The debate that gave us this informatin played out every day across cable news and in print and online. Nothing was kept from us that could sway us one way or the other truthfully. To learn that going to Iraq would most likely end up empowering Iran in the region,

That's the biggest irony of all. Saddam always viewed himself as a bulwark against Iranian influence in the Middle East, and according to the Iraq Survey Group, he saw his WMD program primarily as an asset to be used against Iran, not the US or Europe.

Indeed, it was for that very reason that the US supported Iraq against Iran during the Iran-Iraq War in the '80s. And had Saddam not made the fatal mistake of attacking Kuwait in 1990, relations between him and Washington might well have carried on swimmingly.
 


NBC News - Richest Americans pay almost no income taxes, report finds (June 2021)

The United States is also no longer spending $300 million a day in Afghanistan.

You’re welcome.


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That was an ass-kicking. I hope Elder is the face of the California GOP because he and his ilk are going nowhere here very, very fast.

Elder is the face of the GOP. Trumpism has won.
 
Elder is the face of the GOP. Trumpism has won.
It’s taken over the GOP, that’s for sure. In California specifically, which is what I was talking about, the Republican party is dead. I hope and believe it’s dying in other states too.
 
To be clear, I want the debate to be between moderate and progressive elements of this country. I think that’s a debate we can win. The crazies are the ones who are causing the problems in this country
 

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