Riots in Missouri - Part 2

[Apollo]

Every group has their stereotypes if you think about it.

 

[Sun_Down]

Sun Down, then why aren't the world talking about this if it's so important that to you it is a misfact?


Why have none of the news have a headline ask "Can these facts Be trusted"?

The world IS talking about it. Thus the articles in major publications talking about it.

Once again, you refuse to answer: have you looked at the evidence, or the very publicly discussed issues with it? You're so confident in what the facts are, yet you're sticking your fingers in your ears whenever someone tries to talk about them.

 

[SuperJediHero]

Racial profiling most definitely exists and it is appalling. My friend and room mate is black and by his count has been pulled over 30 something times in his hometown for no good reason. He is from a lower-class, racially divided small town in eastern Alabama so he gets it more than most would probably would.
But you know what? If at some point he were to commit a crime and be approached by an officer attempting to make an arrest, that has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the fact that he broke the law and will go to jail.
And if he is uncooperative and attempts to assault the officer, who is once again just doing his job, and makes an attempt for his gun?
It wouldn't be the craziest thing in the world if he got shot and killed. It'd be tragic, I'd be heartbroken and distraught, but I wouldn't chalk up his death to the color of his skin but to poor judgement on his part, and at the very worst, poor training on the officer's part.
People are filling in the gaps in this situation with whatever agenda they want to push. There are no facts whatsoever that say this was a racial thing; people see it that way because, once again, the media ran with the story from the beginning when dubious witness accounts were released saying Mike Brown was surrendering.

I have some black friends that goes to clubs, and the club doesn't let them in, because they are wearing jeans and T-shirts with graphics on them. And they complain that it is racism! Because they are blacks, the clubs wouldn't allow them in. Also insists that there was no good reason that he wasn't allowed in. Their clothing is fine, according to them.

It really isn't, because everybody is treated the same. I also have to wear nice collared shirts and nice pants when I goto clubs, I am not treated any different than them. If I wear jeans, and a crazy T-shirt you bet I wouldn't be allowed in either. That has nothing at all to do with racism, and yet I see race card being played here.

This is just but one example, but I mean a lot of the racism claims truly have NO basis, I see it again and again.

 

[summerteeth]

Why wasn't an incident report filed soon after the shooting if Wilson's story is 100% honest?

Why is the small bruises on his right cheek when he was alledgedly attacked while sitting in the drivers seat?

Why would someone who was running away from an armed cop, charge an armed cop when over 35 feet away?

The only fact we know for sure is that Wilson's story has holes in it.

If he was talking to Brown his face would be turned to him so he could get hit on either cheek. They tested his left hand and found DNA from two individuals and said it was a 98% chance it was a match with Wilson than a match of someone else. So again the evidence is consistent with Wilson's injuries/story.

As far as the charging the cop, again take a look at the evidence and see what it says. CNN released all the evidence the grand jury heard, it's all right there for you to read.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Store owner who was robbed by Michael Brown had his store looted last night.

 

[SuperJediHero]

The world IS talking about it. Thus the articles in major publications talking about it.

Once again, you refuse to answer: have you looked at the evidence, or the very publicly discussed issues with it? You're so confident in what the facts are, yet you're sticking your fingers in your ears whenever someone tries to talk about them.

Alright, which respectable media site IS talking about this, again?

 

[CELTICPRED]

You don't get to bring friends.

Somebody get this hothead outta here.

 

[Sithborg]

Then, the body cams shouldn't have audio!

That is a serious violation of privacy if it has audio that record everything cop says.


The ONLY reason you are not against it is because it doesn't happen to you, you aren't a cop, which is selfish.

Yes it is selfish of me to want my brother to have as much evidence that he did his job as he was trained to do in case there is a complaint filed against him, or god forbid, is forced to shoot someone. I mean, is it really that much of a leap past the dash cams, which I think most agree are a good thing.

This whole mess wouldn't be as big as it is if there were a way to easily show what happened, and not depend on witnesses who seem to be constantly under attack.

 

[RichardMoore]

Forensic Pathologist Cyril Wecht SHUTS DOWN All N…: http://youtu.be/tWUkBxmFUvU

 

[RichardMoore]

More and more I see shameless accusations of "pulling the race card" in a serious attempt to undermine legitimate complaints about racism.

 

[RockSP]

Ugh, then I don't want to be a cop even if you give me a billion dollar salary. **** this job!

The lack of respect for cop's privacy is Appalling!

http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/25/little-brother-is-watching-them/

 

[The Apocalypse]

Forensic Pathologist Cyril Wecht SHUTS DOWN All N…: http://youtu.be/tWUkBxmFUvU

Thank you.

 

[W/ Great Power]

Store owner who was robbed by Michael Brown had his store looted last night.

I would understand a peaceful protest, but this is the kind of stuff that's been bothering me the most.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Store owner who was robbed by Michael Brown had his store looted last night.

Obviously, he is to blame for all of this, just like Korean and Chinese shopkeepers were to blame for Rodney King getting beaten by the LAPD.

 

[Lilbaz]

More and more I see shameless accusations of "pulling the race card" in a serious attempt to undermine legitimate complaints about racism.

Do you think the police officer shot him because he was black?

 

[SuperT]

In other somewhat related news - at least we have footage of the Tamir Rice shooting they just released today.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...um=referral&utm_campaign=pubexchange_facebook

The way the police car just rolls up....kid never had a chance.

 

[W/ Great Power]

In other somewhat related news - at least we have footage of the Tamir Rice shooting they just released today.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...um=referral&utm_campaign=pubexchange_facebook

The way the police car just rolls up....kid never had a chance.

I know that some people will defend the cops and say they had no idea that it was a pellet gun, but I can't blame a 12-year old in that situation. The kid must have been freightened and confused the way they pulled up to him.

I wasn't aware of this incident until now.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Quote:
Soon after Officer Darren Wilson shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed 18-year-old, law enforcement’s handling of the case was already being criticized as callous and sloppy. Residents of Ferguson, Missouri, looked on in horror as police officials failed to cover and later to remove Brown’s body from the street for hours.
Now that the grand jury evidence, including forensic records and testimony from Wilson and those investigating the fatal shooting, has been released, it's clear that other mistakes were made in attempting to figure out what happened on that August afternoon. The best physical evidence and testimony might not have been as ironclad in Wilson's favor as prosecutor Robert McCulloch characterized it on Monday night.
From the reams of grand jury testimony and police evidence, here are some key points that, if this case had gone to trial, could have been highlighted by prosecutors (not including the witnesses who appeared to contradict Wilson’s testimony):
1. Wilson washed away blood evidence.
In an interview with police investigators, Wilson admitted that after the shooting he returned to police headquarters and washed blood off his body -- physical evidence that could have helped to prove or disprove a critical piece of Wilson’s testimony regarding his struggle with Brown inside the police car. He told his interrogator that he had blood on both of his hands. “I think it was his blood,” Wilson said referring to Brown. He added that he was not cut anywhere.

A photo of Wilson's injuries taken at the hospital after his altercation with Brown, released by the St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney's Office.
2. The first officer to interview Wilson failed to take any notes.
The first supervising officer to the scene, who was also the first person to interview Wilson about the incident, didn’t take any notes about their conversation. In testimony more than a month after the incident, the officer offered his account from memory. He explained that he hadn’t been equipped with a recorder and hadn’t tried to take any written notes due to the chaotic nature of the situation. He also didn’t write up any notes soon after the fact. “I didn’t take notes because at that point in time I had multiple things going through my head besides what Darren was telling me,” the officer stated.
The same officer admitted during his grand jury testimony that Wilson had called him personally after they both had been interviewed by investigators. Wilson then went over his account again with the officer. The officer told the grand jury that there were no discrepancies between Wilson’s first account in person and his second account on the phone. But the call raises questions about whether Wilson may have influenced witness testimony.
3. Investigators failed to measure the likely distance between Brown and Wilson.
An unnamed medical legal examiner who responded to the shooting testified before the grand jury that he or she had not taken any distance measurements at the scene, because they appeared “self-explanatory.”
“Somebody shot somebody. There was no question as to any distances or anything of that nature at the time I was there,” the examiner told the jury.
The examiner also noted that he or she hadn’t been able to take pictures at the scene -- as is standard -- because the camera's batteries were dead. The examiner later testified that he or she accompanied investigators from the St. Louis County Police Department as they photographed Brown’s body.

A photo of the Aug. 9 crime scene in Ferguson, released by the St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney's Office.
4. Investigators did not test Wilson’s gun for fingerprints.
Talking with police investigators and before the grand jury, Wilson claimed that Brown had grabbed at Wilson's gun during the initial incident in the police car and that Brown's hand was on the firearm when it misfired at least once. Wilson also told police that he thought Brown would overpower him and shoot him with his own gun. “I was not in control of the gun,” Wilson said. Eventually he regained control of the weapon and fired from within the car.
Investigators could have helped to prove or disprove Wilson’s testimony by testing his service weapon for Brown’s fingerprints. But the gun was not tested for fingerprints. An investigator argued before the grand jury that the decision was made not to test the weapon because Wilson “never lost control of his gun.”
5. Wilson did not immediately turn his weapon over to investigators after killing Brown.
A detective with the St. Louis County Police Department, who conducted the first official interview of Wilson, testified to the grand jury that Wilson had packaged his own service weapon into an evidence envelope following his arrival at the police station in the wake of the shooting. The detective said the practice was not usual for his department, though he was unclear on the protocol of the Ferguson Police Department. He said he didn’t explore that aspect further at the time.
According to the detective’s testimony, standard practice for the St. Louis County Police Department would be for an officer involved in a shooting to keep his or her weapon holstered until it can be turned over to a supervisor and a crime scene unit detective. While that clearly didn’t take place in Wilson’s case, the detective also testified that he believed the firearm was handled in a way that preserved the chain of custody.

A photo of Wilson's service weapon, released by the St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney's Office.
6. An initial interview with investigators was delayed while Wilson traveled to the hospital with his superiors.
The same St. Louis County Police Department detective also testified that while he had intended to conduct his initial interview with Wilson at the Ferguson police station, a lieutenant colonel with the Ferguson Police Department decided that Wilson first needed to go to the hospital for medical treatment. The detective said that while it is common practice to defer to any medical decision of this nature, Wilson appeared to be in good health and didn’t have any notable injuries that would have prevented an interview from being conducted at the station. Wilson would also testify that he didn’t believe he needed to go to the hospital.
But that day, Wilson got into a vehicle with the lieutenant colonel and another Ferguson police official and went to the hospital, while the St. Louis County detective traveled in another vehicle.
7. Wilson’s initial interview with the detective conflicts with information given in later testimony.
In his first interview with the detective, just hours after Brown’s death, Wilson didn’t claim to have any knowledge that Brown was suspected of stealing cigarillos from a nearby convenience store. The only mention of cigarillos he made to the detective was a recollection of the call about the theft that had come across his radio and that provided a description of the suspect.
Wilson also told the detective that Brown had passed something off to his friend before punching Wilson in the face. At the time, the detective said, Wilson didn’t know what the item was, referring to it only as “something.” In subsequent interviews and testimony, however, Wilson claimed that he knew Brown’s hands were full of cigarillos and that fact eventually led him to believe Brown may have been a suspect in the theft.

I don't know enough about post-shooting processes for police officers, other than minor research and what I see in cop dramas. But, some of that stuff makes that police department seem really incompetent.

What's weird is, that we know that Brown's body was laid out for four hours without being covered (which was the original controversy that led to this shooting being picked up nationally). So, things like the camera not having a battery seems like with the time they had to work with...shouldn't have been a problem for them.

I'm not willing to say it's a conspiracy, because they could all just be really pathetically incompetent. But...alot of it seems so shoddy.

 

[Kar]

In other somewhat related news - at least we have footage of the Tamir Rice shooting they just released today.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...um=referral&utm_campaign=pubexchange_facebook

The way the police car just rolls up....kid never had a chance.

Its crazy. The cops hit the brother in Walmart with the BB gun the same way. Just hit the corner and shot him dead.

The fact these deaths are caught on camera and still nothing, it makes you wonder would it make a difference if there was even footage of the Wilson/Brown altercation. Eric Garner was literally choked to death on camera by police for crying out loud.

 

[dodgers2213]

I know that some people will defend the cops and say they had no idea that it was a pellet gun

Exactly...they didn't know it was a fake gun

It seems people are way to hindsight happy and fail to at least understand how difficult the situations are at the moment it occurs

Context: Officers are responding to a 911 call of someone seen walking around with a weapon at a playground. They don't know the person is 12 years old so hold your emotions

The frame rate is bad, audio is not there to hear the officers, the kid is walking forward and clearly reaches toward his waist, difficult to see with the poor quality if there is a moment the officers could have seen the weapon, as the police drive up in front of him.

A decision has to be made to neutralize the threat or you might be shot.

There are much better examples of police abuse. I just don't see it here or in the Michael Brown case (especially). Tamir Rice is a simple quick decision with a bad outcome...an accident--shocker. Always keep your hands where you can see them, it's unfortunate the 12 yr old was just in a poor and unlucky position.
Like the motor cyclist getting pulled over and arrested for no reason whatsoever. The officer was removed from duty after an investigation

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

^ Again

Pretty sure that the protocol for the body cams is that the officer MUST turn them on whenever approaching someone. So, when stopping someone or arriving at a scene, they flick it and turn it on.

And while they're in the car talking about having sex with their wives...the cam would be off. Same goes for when they're in a donuts shop eating, or in a bathroom taking a leak.

Ugh, then I don't want to be a cop even if you give me a billion dollar salary. **** this job!

The lack of respect for cop's privacy is Appalling!

I would hope anyone wanting to be a cop wouldn't be in it for any other reason than the desire to serve.

Serving the public, your city, your state, your country...is supposed to have hurdles. If the public needs to have their trust in law enforcement rebuilt, and if body cams will help, then so be it.

Nobody's privacy is protected anymore, so let's skip that fantasy now. We have no privacy anymore.

But, if you're worried about things like addresses or credit card information (I imagine police might use those when getting coffee or lunch or something), there are ways of protecting that stuff with the protocol I've heard being followed.

 

[dodgers2213]

What's weird is, that we know that Brown's body was laid out for four hours without being covered (which was the original controversy that led to this shooting being picked up nationally).

It's not that weird, you definitely don't wrap up investigations in 1 hour. "Forensic professionals from across the country...sometimes bodies remain at a crime scene even longer than Brown’s did." Bodies are not moved until it's over and that depends on each individual case. Here is the timeline

Cliffs

12:02 p.m.Ferguson police Officer Darren Wilson reports "disturbance in progress" in Canfield Green housing complex.

12:03 p.m.Resident tweets: "I JUST SAW SOMEONE DIE OMFG"

about 12:05 p.m.Ambulance on unrelated call comes upon scene. Paramedic checks Brown for pulse, decides injuries "incompatible with life," leaves body in street.

12:08 p.m.Ferguson police call St. Louis County to report shooting.about

12:10 p.m.Firefighter covers body with sheet.

12:51 p.m.St. Louis County homicide detectives dispatched.

1:02 p.m.Crowd grows to hundreds. Police dispatch canine units.

2:12 p.m.Shots fired on Canfield by unknown assailant.

2:14 p.m.Chief Jackson calls Code 1000, summoning police from all available jurisdictions.

2:18 p.m.Crime scene unit arrives on scene.

2:30 p.m.Driver arrives to take body to morgue. "Let's kill the police," he hears. Medical examiner's investigator also arrives; police say he can't work until crowd calms down.

2:36 p.m.Resident tweets again: "Homie still on the ground tho".

2:45 p.m.Tactical operations (SWAT) dispatched for crowd control.

3:07 p.m.Crime Scene Unit takes its first photos of the scene.

about 4 p.m.Brown's mother pleads with crowd, saying: "Please move back. All I want them to do is pick up my baby."

about 4:15 p.m.Driver loads Brown's body for five-mile trip to morgue.

4:37 p.m.Body checked into morgue.

EDIT: Important events underlined that certainly didn't help for a speedy clean up of the scene

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I know that some people will defend the cops and say they had no idea that it was a pellet gun, but I can't blame a 12-year old in that situation. The kid must have been freightened and confused the way they pulled up to him.

I wasn't aware of this incident until now.

That was ****ing weird.

Who the hell drives THAT close to an "armed suspect" with the intent to talk them down? The police said they warned him and he did not respond...but it looks like they just rolled up on him and shot him on sight.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

It's not that weird, you definitely don't wrap up investigations in 1 hour.

Where did I say that investigations wrap up in 1 hour???

 

[dodgers2213]

Where did I say that investigations wrap up in 1 hour???

I didn't say you did, it was more of a literary usage to say these things take some time.